The Abortion Debate...
#165
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I have a lot of involvement with children with disabilities (fostering involvement not 'one finger, one bum keep moving' ) so find it very hard to believe in "god"
That and its a load of made up bollocks anyway
Edit, as for abortion - wrong in all cases apart from a victim of rape
Last edited by dvid; 21-05-2008 at 02:11 PM.
#166
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It should stay at 24 weeks.
If you were told at the 20 week scan that your baby is severely disabled and their brain has not developed normally, then there are not many options open to you. If that happens a few days before Christmas you get sent home and told to come back in the new year!!
If anyone has been in that position then they will understand why it needs to be 24 weeks.
And don't for a single second bring God into it. That cunt has caused enough suffering in the world without giving him a say in abortions too!!!!
If you were told at the 20 week scan that your baby is severely disabled and their brain has not developed normally, then there are not many options open to you. If that happens a few days before Christmas you get sent home and told to come back in the new year!!
If anyone has been in that position then they will understand why it needs to be 24 weeks.
And don't for a single second bring God into it. That cunt has caused enough suffering in the world without giving him a say in abortions too!!!!
#168
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"Typically, a vasectomy takes 30 to 45 minutes. In the conventional approach, the skin on one side of the scrotum is first numbed with a local anesthetic, then the physician makes one or two small incisions, or cuts, into the scrotum. The vas is cut, and a small piece may be removed. Next, the doctor ties the cut ends and sews up the scrotal incision. The entire procedure is then repeated on the other side."
That should sort it out Reversible too!
That should sort it out Reversible too!
#169
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It should stay at 24 weeks.
If you were told at the 20 week scan that your baby is severely disabled and their brain has not developed normally, then there are not many options open to you. If that happens a few days before Christmas you get sent home and told to come back in the new year!!
If anyone has been in that position then they will understand why it needs to be 24 weeks.
And don't for a single second bring God into it. That cunt has caused enough suffering in the world without giving him a say in abortions too!!!!
If you were told at the 20 week scan that your baby is severely disabled and their brain has not developed normally, then there are not many options open to you. If that happens a few days before Christmas you get sent home and told to come back in the new year!!
If anyone has been in that position then they will understand why it needs to be 24 weeks.
And don't for a single second bring God into it. That cunt has caused enough suffering in the world without giving him a say in abortions too!!!!
I do not think its ethical to allow someone to have an abortion at 24 weeks just because they dont want it. As it could have a perfectly good chance of survival its nothing short of barbaric to kill a perfectly healthy baby.
Sarah
#170
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#171
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"Typically, a vasectomy takes 30 to 45 minutes. In the conventional approach, the skin on one side of the scrotum is first numbed with a local anesthetic, then the physician makes one or two small incisions, or cuts, into the scrotum. The vas is cut, and a small piece may be removed. Next, the doctor ties the cut ends and sews up the scrotal incision. The entire procedure is then repeated on the other side."
That should sort it out Reversible too!
That should sort it out Reversible too!
#174
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Unfortunately we cant please everyone and nothing is ever as black and white as it seems
#176
Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
I do not think its ethical to allow someone to have an abortion at 24 weeks just because they dont want it. As it could have a perfectly good chance of survival its nothing short of barbaric to kill a perfectly healthy baby.
I do not think its ethical to allow someone to have an abortion at 24 weeks just because they dont want it. As it could have a perfectly good chance of survival its nothing short of barbaric to kill a perfectly healthy baby.
Where do you draw the line? - I think its down to personal morality
Im morally content with factory farmed chicken and abortion at 24 weeks personally
Last edited by Turbocabbie; 21-05-2008 at 03:33 PM.
#177
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Guess its all down to where your morality lies, some people consider it barbaric to kill animals for food... Especially factory farmed animals such as Chickens - Do you eat chicken, have you purchased Chicken from Tesco ?? - Does this make us who do Barbaric
Where do you draw the line ?
Where do you draw the line ?
i buy free range
#178
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Most "free range" these days sadly is just marketting speak for chickens that live in a barn crammed in on top of each other with 23 hours a day of redlight to make them grow quickly by thinking its always daylight but without being excited by seeing the blood of other chickens, but done with the door open onto a cold hard concrete floor with no food or shelter.
NOTHING like free range should be, but legal for them to call it that, its barely any better for the hens that battery farming though TBH
NOTHING like free range should be, but legal for them to call it that, its barely any better for the hens that battery farming though TBH
#180
Does this matter to the Chicken, is it any less barbaric to kill a free range chicken than a factory farmed chicken in the eyes of a vegan ?
One just has a better quality of life, if you believe killing animals for food is morally wrong you feel this way about cows, sheep, horses no matter of how they are farmed.
What you find morally acceptable is a personal thing like views on abortion
One just has a better quality of life, if you believe killing animals for food is morally wrong you feel this way about cows, sheep, horses no matter of how they are farmed.
What you find morally acceptable is a personal thing like views on abortion
Last edited by Turbocabbie; 21-05-2008 at 03:44 PM.
#181
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Does this matter to the Chicken, is it any less barbaric to kill a free range chicken than a factory farmed chicken in the eyes of a vegan ?
One just has a better quality of life, if you believe killing animals for food is morally wrong you feel this way about cows, sheep, horses no matter of how they are farmed
One just has a better quality of life, if you believe killing animals for food is morally wrong you feel this way about cows, sheep, horses no matter of how they are farmed
#182
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#183
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Wasnt aware of Dojj's religion, but it doesnt change the fact that the country is full of gymslip unemployed single mothers due to the fact they had children that damn well should have been aborted for the good of EVERYONE. I cant see any good at all coming from half the children born into this country. All they do is drag our benefits system down and hammer the poor worker who has to provide benefits from his tax.
You want kids? Great, no problem, but get jobs and pay for them yourself and stop asking me to. I am sick of paying for them, my own kids are expensive enough and i had them by choice... why the hell should i pay for someone else's?
You want kids? Great, no problem, but get jobs and pay for them yourself and stop asking me to. I am sick of paying for them, my own kids are expensive enough and i had them by choice... why the hell should i pay for someone else's?
fook me !
i waited till i was 34 nearly to have my 1st child, until then i deemed myself not emotionally or finacially ready to support my son for as long as it takes, now i can and he will want for nothing, nor will we sponge from the government to feed/clothe/lookafter etc etc
well done, i have not read the rest of the post but this sums it all up for me.
#184
i had been with my ex 5 years when she fell pregnant as we was both working and in a stable relationship we was both over the moon etc etc... then 2 months later i found out she had decided to abort the baby without telling me IMO she had no right to do this if she didn't want the baby then fair enough but i did and would have happily gone our seperates taking the child with me..
some abortions i can accept but like my ex its just a joke end of the day she killed a child because she decided she didn't want it, the law should change in many ways one been well before 24 weeks
some abortions i can accept but like my ex its just a joke end of the day she killed a child because she decided she didn't want it, the law should change in many ways one been well before 24 weeks
#185
I was just responding to the statement regarding abortion at at 24 weeks being :
Originally Posted by Dicko&Sarah
its nothing short of barbaric to kill a perfectly healthy baby.
its nothing short of barbaric to kill a perfectly healthy baby.
What people think is morally acceptable is a personal thing like views on abortion
Personally I support it all, Abortion at 24 weeks, Fox hunting, Factory farming the whole damn lot
Last edited by Turbocabbie; 21-05-2008 at 05:17 PM.
#186
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What everyone seems to be assuming is that women are routinely having abortions up to 24weeks. I'd wager that a tiny tiny proportion of abortions at that date are NOT health related. But the Pro-life zealots seize on it and make out that women are just popping to the docs, and popping out the foetus.
For those who don't know, if you want an abortion at that stage you have to go through full labour and childbirth. You give birth to a dead baby. No one on this planet would enter into that lightly.
For those who don't know, if you want an abortion at that stage you have to go through full labour and childbirth. You give birth to a dead baby. No one on this planet would enter into that lightly.
#187
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I think some of you have very extreme views which I really don't understand at all.
I think that the 24 week limit is OK but only in exceptional circumstances. The medical profession believe that a pregnancy isn't viable until 24 weeks and if a baby is born before 24 weeks they will not intervein and they will not give any medical assistance to the baby to keep it alive.
In a few rare occasions babies that have been born before 24 weeks i.e. 22/23 weeks have been known to survive, some with no adverse affects later on in life and some that are permenantly disabled due to their prematurity.
As most of you will know I'm pregnant with my 2nd child and I'm in my 28th week now. If I had been told that their was something wrong with my unborn baby then I would have considered all the options open to me and I would have made the right decision for me and the baby.
Some tests etc aren't available until 16-18 weeks so in these circumstances a late termination will be inevitable should there be something wrong and if that is what the parents decide.
Now here comes the shock horror, I'm a catholic and yes I do believe in God and I do have my faith. I don't ram it down other peoples throats and I don't use my religion to explain mass disasters or use it to preach or try and convert others to 'follow' my way of thinking.
I'm actually very proud that I am a catholic and I'm proud that I do have my 'belief' system as personally my education and upbringing have made me the person that I am today and that includes my religion. I'm not an extremeist who lives my life by the bible but I do believe that my opinions are fair and objective.
I was always teased by people where I lived because I went to a different school and I used to go to church every Sunday. Funny though, when I look at them now. Half of the girls I know from home are on benefits with 3-4 kids living in council accommodation bleeding the state dry.
I may have had a child when I was 20 and been a single parent by the time I was 23 but at least I can say I did it standing on my own two feet without the help of the 'state'.
Oh and as for steralising all women, what utter pish!!
I think that the 24 week limit is OK but only in exceptional circumstances. The medical profession believe that a pregnancy isn't viable until 24 weeks and if a baby is born before 24 weeks they will not intervein and they will not give any medical assistance to the baby to keep it alive.
In a few rare occasions babies that have been born before 24 weeks i.e. 22/23 weeks have been known to survive, some with no adverse affects later on in life and some that are permenantly disabled due to their prematurity.
As most of you will know I'm pregnant with my 2nd child and I'm in my 28th week now. If I had been told that their was something wrong with my unborn baby then I would have considered all the options open to me and I would have made the right decision for me and the baby.
Some tests etc aren't available until 16-18 weeks so in these circumstances a late termination will be inevitable should there be something wrong and if that is what the parents decide.
Now here comes the shock horror, I'm a catholic and yes I do believe in God and I do have my faith. I don't ram it down other peoples throats and I don't use my religion to explain mass disasters or use it to preach or try and convert others to 'follow' my way of thinking.
I'm actually very proud that I am a catholic and I'm proud that I do have my 'belief' system as personally my education and upbringing have made me the person that I am today and that includes my religion. I'm not an extremeist who lives my life by the bible but I do believe that my opinions are fair and objective.
I was always teased by people where I lived because I went to a different school and I used to go to church every Sunday. Funny though, when I look at them now. Half of the girls I know from home are on benefits with 3-4 kids living in council accommodation bleeding the state dry.
I may have had a child when I was 20 and been a single parent by the time I was 23 but at least I can say I did it standing on my own two feet without the help of the 'state'.
Oh and as for steralising all women, what utter pish!!
#188
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IMO 24 weeks is too long other than for medical reasons.
Obvisouly some people dont find out till late on, ie falling pregnant on the pill or implant for example and not having regualar periods.
But surely it cant take 24 weeks to decide if you want to keep the baby or not, and each day its growing and moving inside of you.. well obvisouly it can for some people, but i just cant see how lol.
More sex education needs to be given in school.. when i was there we only had a couple of lessons. People are having sex younger nowadays (or is it me getting older i dont know) so things need to be done sooner. Maybe showing ppl what ppl go thru who have abortions? Tell them, they will die or there d*ck will drop off if they have unprocted sex? .. ok bit too far haha
Obvisouly some people dont find out till late on, ie falling pregnant on the pill or implant for example and not having regualar periods.
But surely it cant take 24 weeks to decide if you want to keep the baby or not, and each day its growing and moving inside of you.. well obvisouly it can for some people, but i just cant see how lol.
More sex education needs to be given in school.. when i was there we only had a couple of lessons. People are having sex younger nowadays (or is it me getting older i dont know) so things need to be done sooner. Maybe showing ppl what ppl go thru who have abortions? Tell them, they will die or there d*ck will drop off if they have unprocted sex? .. ok bit too far haha
#189
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If everyone was sterilised then at least when all these 14 year old slappers are busy fucking people in exchange for a white lightning then hard working people like Stu above wouldnt be funding a child no one wants as a result of a fuck for a can of lager someoen did want
#191
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Sorry but i disagree. This is a Male opinion i know, but all the same, surely, if you had sex last night, and then you miss your next period... surely you can damn well do a pregnancy test immediately? So tahst 4 weeks max yeah?
Negative test and miss the next one too? Get another pregnancy test. Whats that taken you so far? 8 weeks MAX. More likely five or six. You dont need another FOUR MONTHS to find out your pregnant do you?
I think it takes so long because the law damn well allows you to take so long. If women had less time, they may take more care and check if their pregnant rather than waiting till they feel sick and crave pilchards!
Negative test and miss the next one too? Get another pregnancy test. Whats that taken you so far? 8 weeks MAX. More likely five or six. You dont need another FOUR MONTHS to find out your pregnant do you?
I think it takes so long because the law damn well allows you to take so long. If women had less time, they may take more care and check if their pregnant rather than waiting till they feel sick and crave pilchards!
I personally didn't know or realise that I was pregnant with Enya-Mae until I was around 15 weeks pregnant. My mum had passed away the October before, I'd quit my job because I worked with a complete set of bitches and had some finances behind me. I set about tearing my new home to pieces and getting everything organised with electricians, builders, etc. I was working more or less full time on the house myself, and it was only when it was nearing completion that I realised that I hadn't had a monthly event for a while. I wouldn't have found it abnormal anyway, as I had been on a contraceptive for god knows how many months previous to it that totally stops periods.
So when I did do a test and it was positive, the first scan I was sent to two weeks later confirmed that I was 17 weeks pregnant. Three weeks later I had a 20 week scan which confirmed everything was okay with baby, it was only after this scan that I actually felt her move. Anything that I had experienced prior to that I had put down to poor diet as I was eating takeways all the time as the flat I was renting whilst I was sorting the house out had a kitchen so tiny it didn't inspire to make anything more than a cuppa in it.
So it can and does happen.
#192
Well, it can happen, it did with me. It depends what's going on in your life at the time.
I personally didn't know or realise that I was pregnant with Enya-Mae until I was around 15 weeks pregnant. My mum had passed away the October before, I'd quit my job because I worked with a complete set of bitches and had some finances behind me. I set about tearing my new home to pieces and getting everything organised with electricians, builders, etc. I was working more or less full time on the house myself, and it was only when it was nearing completion that I realised that I hadn't had a monthly event for a while. I wouldn't have found it abnormal anyway, as I had been on a contraceptive for god knows how many months previous to it that totally stops periods.
So when I did do a test and it was positive, the first scan I was sent to two weeks later confirmed that I was 17 weeks pregnant. Three weeks later I had a 20 week scan which confirmed everything was okay with baby, it was only after this scan that I actually felt her move. Anything that I had experienced prior to that I had put down to poor diet as I was eating takeways all the time as the flat I was renting whilst I was sorting the house out had a kitchen so tiny it didn't inspire to make anything more than a cuppa in it.
So it can and does happen.
I personally didn't know or realise that I was pregnant with Enya-Mae until I was around 15 weeks pregnant. My mum had passed away the October before, I'd quit my job because I worked with a complete set of bitches and had some finances behind me. I set about tearing my new home to pieces and getting everything organised with electricians, builders, etc. I was working more or less full time on the house myself, and it was only when it was nearing completion that I realised that I hadn't had a monthly event for a while. I wouldn't have found it abnormal anyway, as I had been on a contraceptive for god knows how many months previous to it that totally stops periods.
So when I did do a test and it was positive, the first scan I was sent to two weeks later confirmed that I was 17 weeks pregnant. Three weeks later I had a 20 week scan which confirmed everything was okay with baby, it was only after this scan that I actually felt her move. Anything that I had experienced prior to that I had put down to poor diet as I was eating takeways all the time as the flat I was renting whilst I was sorting the house out had a kitchen so tiny it didn't inspire to make anything more than a cuppa in it.
So it can and does happen.
Hows this for a suggestion.
Drop the limit somewhat, and make pregnancy testers available free of carge to all women, that way it can be drummed into all sexually active females to test once a week, regardless. I mean, lets face it, its not excatly hard to do is it? You will be taking a piss every morning anyway and the testers will be cheaper to the tax payer than the pregnancies forced to go full term due to missing the abortion cut off point!
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 22-05-2008 at 08:40 AM.
#193
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Fair argument sarah, but i still feel its our responsility to find out sooner rather than later and we cant use "I didnt know" as a defense. Ignorance isnt allowed as a defense in law, and maybe it shoudlnt be allowed in this arena either.
Hows this for a suggestion.
Drop the limit somewhat, and make pregnancy testers available free of carge to all women, that way it can be drummed into all sexually active females to test once a week, regardless. I mean, lets face it, its not excatly hard to do is it? You will be taking a piss every morning anyway and the testers will be cheaper to the tax payer than the pregnancies forced to go full term due to missing the abortion cut off point!
Hows this for a suggestion.
Drop the limit somewhat, and make pregnancy testers available free of carge to all women, that way it can be drummed into all sexually active females to test once a week, regardless. I mean, lets face it, its not excatly hard to do is it? You will be taking a piss every morning anyway and the testers will be cheaper to the tax payer than the pregnancies forced to go full term due to missing the abortion cut off point!
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 22-05-2008 at 08:40 AM.
#194
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Home pregnancy testing kits are not very reliable...and the ones that are cost about Ł10 a time iirc...
Getting an appointment at the doctors is never easy...sometimes it can take up to a week to get an advance appointment at my doctors because they are so busy.
Those people who think the limit for abortions are too high...and would like to see it lowered to 20 weeks or below...does this count for abortions on medical grounds too?
Getting an appointment at the doctors is never easy...sometimes it can take up to a week to get an advance appointment at my doctors because they are so busy.
Those people who think the limit for abortions are too high...and would like to see it lowered to 20 weeks or below...does this count for abortions on medical grounds too?
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 22-05-2008 at 08:40 AM.
#195
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what i dont agree with if people know full well they are preg and dont do anything about it till really late then go for one
#196
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The option of aborting after 16 weeks is not something to be taken lightly anyway is its often the case that you have to go through full labour to a dead (or dying) foetus.
I think something like 1.5% of abortions are carried out between 20-24 weeks at present...thats a couple of hundred (c200,000 abortions each year iirc from some stats I have read)
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