Rippers

Can I have the pro's and con's please

4x4 manifold or 2wd as well

Looking for around 500bhp

Franco

iTrader: (2)

about GBP500.00

Gatecrasher

@ Franco

think you will get mixed views here paul as Martin uses the GT30 with external and has super results and Mark Shead uses internal with super results im not sure if either use the other if you know what i mean

reading your post of the late paul you remind me of me

just get it in your head you want 2.2, roller barrle inlet, T4 or GT30 and a Gangsta Map.. Job Jobbed!!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

External is going to give you better flow potential ultimately, but until you are chasing every last horsepower, I wouldnt bother going external, ie if its on a 500bhp spec, rwd manifold gets my vote.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Marks 500/500 engines mostly use the internally gated GT30. As Chip said unless you are chasing evry last HP then I would save myself the money and hassle of an externally gated one. 2wd manifold would be my choice

Rippers

Do either turbo's make have any differences in terms of torque and drivabilty?

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

who's going to be building your engine Paul - im guessing its going to be Harvey!?

Rippers

The engine isn't changing just the ecu, injectors and turbo

Gatecrasher

If its only the turbo he wants to change Kelv theres nothing wrong with his current engine i think?

its 6 long studded oil jets Low com ect isnt it paul? new turbo, poss cams and a remap

Gatecrasher

Beat me to it

Rippers

Spot on Ben. If I kill it thou I'll go 2.2

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

I'll prob be going the same route soon on a harvey T38 engine.

how much head work have you had done?

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

i see no reason why you'll kill it tho Paul, your engine seems to have proved its strong enough so far.

im guessing its almost T6 time then!?

maybe its only my own reasons but id go the external route on a 2wd manifold.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Paul,
Have you not been reading any of Rapidcossies posts? The T4 compressor map is miles better than all but one of the GT30s and with the roller-bearing upgrade is just as good in response. The T4 is a highly underated turbo and people over-look it because they "think" GT is better, when it clearly isn't (comparing cormpressor maps). Don't be suckered into having a "fad", when a correctly specced T4 will meet all your rquirements AND work out cheaper (being able to bolt directly to the 2wde manifold without requiring an external wastegate) !

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Not really no, other than any differences in housing size or wheel trim on the various variants of each (gt30 is a VERY vague "spec" for a turbo, it could be max out for anything between 450 and 600bhp depending on the details)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

An internal gate gt30 will bolt directly to a rwd manifold and not need external wastegates.

And can be had for WELL under a grand, is the T4 really much cheaper than that?

Gatecrasher

dont think you will kill it i just know what your looking for an even with that turbo you ante gona find it

infact im going to be so bold to say that you may not even want 2.2 and the roller barrel inlet is what you are looking for

i know with the change in diff ratios and the asking about bigger capacity in earlyer topic is because you are looking for responce rather than power and while i havent driven a car with a GT30 on it i have with a throttle inlet

again before you go spending money on Turbo's and remaps ect go and drive Mikes car, i know you cant wait till May for me but mikes is crazy, you just rest your foot on the throttle and its picks up revs by the time you apply preasure you at 2000RPM and all the suddon "urbo just kicked in yooooooooooo"

I just hope that mikes being 2.2 aswell wasnt just why it felt so responcive ontop of the barell inlet

Gatecrasher

and you allready have the T6

Ohh and im going for the roller T4 Btw

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

Ben - Mikes felt quicker because he had his hand on your knee at the same time!

i am curious tho Paul, youve popped up alot of different posts over the past few months even asking about going back to a T34.
what actually do you want from the car as i recal you saying that you found the UT T38 far to laggy, where as i thought mine was unbeliveable - little lag overal.

Rippers

For me its all about the drivabilty and torque I can't afford to rebuild my Engine to higher comp or bigger capacity.
I know I want my cake and eat it but I would really like to have around 500bhp and 450lbs+ and have a pretty good responce from 3500 onwards.
I have no preferance on Turbo as long as I get what I want

Gatecrasher

Actualy Kelv i was in mikes car on my own while he was in the freelander

As anyone will know mike is a nucase on his local roads and overtakes at every opertuity, i thought he was doing it to act big when i first met him but no he drives like it every where all the time like a total ASBO wanker "but i like it"

Anyway i was hanging back letting him overtake a few people then Dropping it and just Flying up the outside like a rocket allmost hitting him up the arse in the freelander where i couldnt over take hi as he knew where we was going

i cant wait to get me new engine now, i wish i hadnt booked lydden or i would be stripping it down now!!

Rippers

Kelv I will be having a seperate map done on a T34 aswell

Alps Pacino

external gate is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better especially as i have 1 for sale lol

Rippers

This is some of the problem, most Turbos are great on chat and if your caining it they always feel great... but when I've got the missus and my boy in the car say on a long distance journey to a show, off chat is where I find the T38 not doing much below 4500 a headache

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

Ben - i know what Mike is like, ive experienced a fair few miles now with Mike both track and on the road.

Paul - thats a good way of thinking about the turbo, having no prefferance aslong as its suits the engine and hits the requirements that you want to achieve.
one thing i must say about you, you certainly do your research from every angle before commiting yourself

Rippers

Problem is Kelv I rushed into my last engine and didn't get exactly what I wanted so gonna make sure I do this time.

Mike pm a price on a super duper T4 please

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry Chip, I should have clarified that I meant compared to an externally gated GT30, where you have to add the Tial wastegate, intermediate piece and all the mods to the exhaust, which would take the price up to around £2k .

I don't think the internally gated GT30 has anywhere near as good a compressor map (according to Alan at AVA) as the T4, so it isn't one i would consider over a T4.

Gatecrasher

Prices on his website

Sorry couldnt resist

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

a comment that Mike always makes




Paul

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

It's true though

http://www.randbmotorsport.co.uk/sho...?ProductID=355

Same as Euans.

Rippers

ok guys you got me

57 trim would be better for me Mike?

Rippers

Also are there any plotted dyno graphs for these T4's for me to look at?

Gatecrasher

the last thing i want to do i sugest somthing that cost you the best part of £2K+ only for you not to be happy with it

Like i said my new engine will be the same as yours is at the moment but with the new T4, roler inlet, and Responcive cams

i said to Harv i dont car if its not even 500HP i want the car as responcive as possible and reliable as its going to be a circuit Engine getting lots of abuse

like i said if you can wait till May you can drive my car all you like even up to AVA Rolling road Weekend if you want to see what its like on the motorway

Alps Pacino

To cheap not to go external

https://passionford.com/forum/ford-rs-cosworth-parts-for-sale/229128-gt30-turbo-prov-sold.html

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

always a small opening for Alps to quickly pop in with an advert

Paul, i think if your not in any major rush then hold on 2 months and take Ben's out for a nice long drive, get used to it and see if you can live with it the way it is.

saves wasting the money and then you will know exactly what you will be getting.

after all, its not going to take long to change the loom, ecu and turbo etc, im sure it would only take a week from drive in to drive out on the new setup fully mapped!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Yes - 60-1 trim is what I have and is only suitable for larger capacity engines due to it's bigger compressor (which would surge on a smaller engine).

All you have to do is look at Euan's post - he has loads up. PLEASE be aware that you will NOT see the kind of power he has, unless you remove all the restrictions he has.

If you are bolting this turbo on to your existing engine, I would expect around 470-490 due to the restrictions imposed by the porting and compression ratio.

Seriously though, Harvey should be able to do you a complete deal on everything, and I personally don't think it fair that you buy everything from elsewhere and then just expect him
to dyno it . He would then be more than happy to advise you on what will work best with achieving your aims .

Rippers

Mike I'm seeing Harvey tomorrow I purely want to know options and rough figures so we can finalise a spec.
TBH if the GT30/T4 doesn't look like what I'm after then I will just stick with the T34.55 I have.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

I have the same sort of question really, as if the UT T38 experiment is a success, I might be looking to upgrade after MSD have finished thier conversion..

What would be better for a std geometry std capacity 2.0 engine on 7.4:1 comp(cc'd) with 25/26mm head ports, and a BD14 inlet and whatever suitable exhaust cam with a 2wd exhaust manifold (small turbo inlet) onto a mongoose downpipe? Looking for close to 500 BHP with torque to match, but want response and drivability as a priority?
A: Roller bearing T4 with all the bells and whistles
B: Internally gated GT30
C:Externally gated GT30

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Given what I know what you want, I would suggest this:

A drop in compression to allow some 2.2 bar of boost and and not so much ignition retard (at 7.5:1 you will be stuck with 1.8 bar ish or too much retard). The c/r drop can be achieved either by porting of the head or machining of pistons - or combination of both (where the former will give some more airflow).

Roller-bearing T4.

Having some of Harvey's short duration cams swung to get the turbo on boost ASAP (will compromise the top end, so power will drop like a stone from 7k onwards, but the low down response will be just what you want).

Mapped to perfection on T-Sex - job done .

Garage19

So Mike...

What you are saying is Garrett (honeywell) who have a multi million pound development budget and probably some seriously clever engineers have not been able to better their design for a 500 bhp ish turbo since about 1980????

Even though there have been vast improvements in materials and computer aided design since?

If a GT isn't better what the hell were Garrett playing at all those years??

As a final point, GT30/35s are now down to about £900 due to the weak dollar. I've never seen a new T4 for that little money.