Stavros

Thought you tested a BB core'd standard T4 years ago when you had your Saff Mike, and said you noticed no differences at all?

Surely SOMEONE knows the wheel siz+trim of the RS500s compressor so we can go dig out a map, as i bet its used on 100s of different turbos?
Thats as bad as everybody going "oooh! BD10! BD14! BD16!" and not actually having a fucking clue what counted, ie what lift and duration they are

rapidcossie

My mistake then as dingys old engine makes more than mine below 4k albeit on a smaller turbo but compare my set up with Mike old T4 and you can see the difference!

I love this place...and comments like from garage 19....Only the opinion of one guy who has supposedly seen one?


Do you think Im lying when I say i have seen a T4 map?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Doug,
I couldn't agree more about a standard T4 in regard to it's poor response (you only have to compare my old figures to Euan's to see that ).

Buy what-ever turbo you want - I honestly couldn't care less, but the difference between the roller-bearing equipped T4 and a standard item is amazing. And the efficiency of the GT30 compressor map compared to the T4 compressor map according to one of the people I trust implicitly (and have discussed with at great length) is different enough for me to side with the roller-bearing T4 for my OWN CAR.

Do you honestly think I would put a turbo on my own car that I believed to be inferior? Or something that after a LOT of research, I believed to be superior? Given the amount of money my turbo stands me in at (due to the Mar-m 247 shaft), I could have had any turbo I wanted on my car (including external wastegate etc). I STILL plumped for the T4 - I must just be stuck in the 80s and the decision had nothing at all to do with what I believed on the technical advice I was provided, that the roller-bearing T4 was the way to go .

Even when you turn the engine off, you can hear the turbo spooling down for 10s . You never got that with a normal T4.

rapidcossie

Some people just need to realise there is a MASSIVE difference with actually testing things and guessing.

Every thing on my car has been tested, restested and tested again in the same condtions to make sure it works.

I have had 5 turbos on my car in that last 6 months and we are still not finshed testing them.

I post the results up onhere to try and help others/share information with like mided enthusiasts only to be discredited by people who probably know nothing about the subject in hand.

Franco

iTrader: (2)

This post cracks me up, Pauls spoken to his tuner and THEY have decided what route to opt!

dumped

Hope it has enough oil in the core for 10s lol

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Everytime you put that I explain to you - wry you no wrisson?

My old turbo that I tested with a roller bearing core, did not have a full roller bearing core at BOTH ends, it was just a half way house and did not offer ANY significant / noticible improvements that I was able to detect or comment on.

This new one that I have as full ceramic bearings on BOTH ends and unlike the old style is retained in a full metal basket, so doesn't need to retain the water-cooling like the old style ones did. Although the boost threshold doesn't see to have moved as significantly as on Euans - only a few hundred rpm (as perhaps I haven't removed all the restrictions like he has), the actual spool-up is noticably different. Where my old turbo felt dead below 3000rpm, this feels spritely and alive. Now given that I have driven these turbos back to back, I wouldn't go back to a normal T4.

I even drove Ben's T34 car, and mine feels more "lively" at low rpm - you really have to drive them back to back to feel the difference this makes to the driveability .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

And is this different to what you thought this morning?

dumped

Mike, your now comparing a 2.2l and 2.0, gets worse and worse....

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

My car was 2.2 before I fitted the roller-bearing turbo .

dumped

you compared it to ben's you dumbass lol

Alps Pacino

Supposed well respected knowledgable people are on here comparing turbo's that are fitted to 2 different cars. I aint no expert and know that to get a true comparison the turbo would have to be fitted to the exact same engine to get a true result. That to me is commen sense

Plus who actually cares its fucking sad grown men are arguing over what turbo is better on an internet forum

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Yes, but my old turbo drove like his before I fitted the roller-bearing core .

Franco

iTrader: (2)

No.

Franco

iTrader: (2)

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Both Euan and myself are comparing back to back with different turbos on our own cars. You can't get any more of a direct comparison, other than if we had fitted GT30s. However, we both went with the T4s on the well respected advice we were given from both our tuners - and I even consulted Euan's as well .

Gatecrasher

ahh but mines high comp and mikes is low

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

i just want to say that roller bearing turbos are bang on. iv got one fitted to mine and it spools up very fast. and keeps going through the rev range

thats all.

dumped

Exactly gatecrasher, even MORE different variables so less comparison

Gatecrasher

yes but what would you think was more responcive?

T34 high comp 2.0L Or T4 Low comp 2.2L

I know what one i want

dumped

I wouldnt think, i would test!

Alps Pacino

Or you could just tell people going off someone elses word with absolutly no evidence or proof of your own

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

That's like saying I would have to test it myself rather than believing the findings of my tuner who has tested it .

Instead, I took the advice of two people I trust who HAVE carried out these tests and have ended up with something that is a HUGE improvement over a normal T4.

I take it you're questioning Euan's results as well, because you haven't carried out the same tests? Extending that logic to everything you do in life must work out pretty expensive for you .

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

So you would buy a T4, Roller bearing T4 and a GT30, then pay for the car to be mapped to each turbo then dyno the engine before getting the best turbo after the results? .. Nice, can I have some of what you are sniffing please

Gatecrasher

whuld you want to test tho as you said they are two totaly diffrent engines

As soon as my engine is built i know of 2 engine the same spec as mine but with GT30's so i will be testing to see what is better, at the moment Mike, Harvey, Vince, Euan, Alan and Toms Word is all i have to go on!

dumped

No wil I would just put a gt30 on Euan's as I could get one to test for free I imagine and Euan would not have a problem with it.

Ben, I agree that if you trust your tuner go with their advise as you will have more recourse(if thats the right word)

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

im glad you have the cash to test.

Alps Pacino

So who are these super hero's your on about?

Gatecrasher

Sounds like i good idea Dumped hurry up and do it please before my engine is built

dumped

Unfortunately(depending on how you look at it lol) I doubt I will have any need for such testing so would not go to the bother. Also no one would believe the results unless they fitted their mindset lol

Gatecrasher

ohh right thanks

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

SO, an utterly pointless statement saying you would test then??? Why would no one belive the results??

Alps Pacino

cause there stuck in the 80's

JAP CRAP

If you'd read RapidCossie's other posts you'd see that his car is regularly tested back to back when changing parts on the rolling road at AVA who are a very well respected company. Also Harvey Gibbs I think has dyno'd enough engines with gt30's standard T4's and now Mike's new T4 and looked at enough compressor maps to know a little bit more than you or Garage 19...or anyone for that matter! (with regards to cossie engines)

I can't beleive people are questioning RapidCossie (AVA) or Mike's (Harvey Gibbs) opinion as I don't think there are many if any who have tested as many variables anywhere near on the same level as them...

I for one would take their word after looking into it that someone who just makes assumptions!!

Mike, I want a discount on converting my T4 to this turbo now

Alps Pacino

I'm not questioning anything or anyone.

dumped

If the results were of personal interest I would test. If I was mike I would already have back to back datalogs from the T4s,same road,same gear, simple things like this as his T6 has the ability. I'm quite sure if he could be bothered he could get hold of a GT30 from harvey or a customer that has one at his workshop during a rebuild etc and do a back to back. It would be bother but if it was me and it meant so much to me I would do it.

When I had my saff we even stuck different turbos such a bently T4s on for the day to do some back to back testing of things. Much like what happens with Euans just now, its a good way to learn rather than looking at internet "data" from all over with a million test variables. To me it is about mitigating these variables but neither do I believe in the perfect test so you must compare them on their own merits.

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

How about using a Holset HX35?

Stavros

An RS500 T4 compressor wheel is this one, isnt it? Just a T4 60trim

www.transamrit.net/files/temp/turbonetics%20t3-t4%20e-60%20trim%20stage-3%20tc-11017%20550hp.gif


And this is a GT30R one...

http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/gt30r.htm

If people dont even really know what a RS500 compressor is, as if theyd use a Holset

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

As far as I am aware that's not the correct compressor map for an integrally gated T4...

On my car I have the 60-1 trim - see what you think of that .

Stavros

what? there only 1 type of RS500 turbo, and about 2 million types of "T4", internal and external, many using that same compressor.

IIRC a RS500 T4 uses that compressor. If not, someone tell me what it should be...