Torque of the Devil RR Day - 6th Oct
#321
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So at 31psi @ 6800 @ nobles its about 410 @ wheels compared to TOTD at 27psi is 380 @ wheels...
Not that much difference really...if the car would have made the boost @ TOTD
Not that much difference really...if the car would have made the boost @ TOTD
#322
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Going on that it looks like the ACT was to high and knocking off the power.
So maybe the simple factor is the cooling @ nobles is much better than TOTD.
Its always very cold in the Room at Nobles, and it wasn't cold at all in TOTD.
My car @ nobles with 26psi @ 6800 made 394 @ the wheels...
So maybe the simple factor is the cooling @ nobles is much better than TOTD.
Its always very cold in the Room at Nobles, and it wasn't cold at all in TOTD.
My car @ nobles with 26psi @ 6800 made 394 @ the wheels...
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
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#325
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by kitchy
lloyd made 498 bhp 460 torque
Also, what is the spec of the engine?
![Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
VERY good power
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
Also, isn't Lloyd running Martin's Skyline conversion? What was the centre diff controller set to?
![Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
#326
Testing the future
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Originally Posted by dingy
Going on that it looks like the ACT was to high and knocking off the power.
So maybe the simple factor is the cooling @ nobles is much better than TOTD.
Its always very cold in the Room at Nobles, and it wasn't cold at all in TOTD.
My car @ nobles with 26psi @ 6800 made 394 @ the wheels...
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
So maybe the simple factor is the cooling @ nobles is much better than TOTD.
Its always very cold in the Room at Nobles, and it wasn't cold at all in TOTD.
My car @ nobles with 26psi @ 6800 made 394 @ the wheels...
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
#327
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
Originally Posted by dingy
Going on that it looks like the ACT was to high and knocking off the power.
So maybe the simple factor is the cooling @ nobles is much better than TOTD.
Its always very cold in the Room at Nobles, and it wasn't cold at all in TOTD.
My car @ nobles with 26psi @ 6800 made 394 @ the wheels...
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
So maybe the simple factor is the cooling @ nobles is much better than TOTD.
Its always very cold in the Room at Nobles, and it wasn't cold at all in TOTD.
My car @ nobles with 26psi @ 6800 made 394 @ the wheels...
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Straight over my head - clearly the nobles setup suits my brick shaped shit box better than the DD one LOL....
#330
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Originally Posted by lloyd
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by kitchy
lloyd made 498 bhp 460 torque
Also, what is the spec of the engine?
![Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
VERY good power
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
Also, isn't Lloyd running Martin's Skyline conversion? What was the centre diff controller set to?
![Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
#331
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by lloyd
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by kitchy
lloyd made 498 bhp 460 torque
Also, what is the spec of the engine?
![Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
VERY good power
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
Also, isn't Lloyd running Martin's Skyline conversion? What was the centre diff controller set to?
![Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
#332
Testing the future
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Originally Posted by dingy
Exactly what Karl said - somert bout pressures in side and outside the engine bay...
Straight over my head - clearly the nobles setup suits my brick shaped shit box better than the DD one LOL....
Straight over my head - clearly the nobles setup suits my brick shaped shit box better than the DD one LOL....
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
it's quite simple really - air can only flow from a place of high pressure to a place of low pressure. the same as heat energy can only go from a hot place to a cold one, and the same as water can only flow downhill
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
take the weather. if you have an area of constant pressure around you, you will have a still day. if there is a high pressure area to the north and a low pressure area to the south, you will have a wind coming from the north.
apply this to a car, and to get air to flow through the intercooler you need to have a higher pressure area in front of the intercooler than in the engine bay behind it. a little fan several feet away from the front of the car will probably not achieve that high pressure area in the same way that driving along the road at 70 mph (honest officer
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#335
Testing the future
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if intercooling is not good, overall the engine is not performing as well as it could (the volumetric efficiency is not as high, as colder charge air is more dense) so there is not as much exhaust gas energy to drive the turbine of the turbo. that may mean that the turbo cannot spin fast enough to make the boost that is normally seen on the road
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
that's probably not the whole story though
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#336
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Originally Posted by dingy
So at 31psi @ 6800 @ nobles its about 410 @ wheels compared to TOTD at 27psi is 380 @ wheels...
Not that much difference really...if the car would have made the boost @ TOTD
Not that much difference really...if the car would have made the boost @ TOTD
Hi Steve.
its best to check Boost's, AFR, ACT's, RPM's off your car gauges whilst run up on the dyno,
as then if it changes, you know its the value's not the accurancy of gauges.
Did you record your runs on your Defi's?
i always watch my cars gauges when on RR's, as i know what they all read on the road, and what i set it up too.
Also your find if the RR is not set up to your car correctly, it will read RPM incorrect, and then in turn the read out.
#338
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
if intercooling is not good, overall the engine is not performing as well as it could (the volumetric efficiency is not as high, as colder charge air is more dense) so there is not as much exhaust gas energy to drive the turbine of the turbo. that may mean that the turbo cannot spin fast enough to make the boost that is normally seen on the road
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
that's probably not the whole story though
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
the IC is small and relies on ducted air. Couple that with the fact superchargers are veru efficient might be 20bhp....
Alex
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Originally Posted by AlexF
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
if intercooling is not good, overall the engine is not performing as well as it could (the volumetric efficiency is not as high, as colder charge air is more dense) so there is not as much exhaust gas energy to drive the turbine of the turbo. that may mean that the turbo cannot spin fast enough to make the boost that is normally seen on the road
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
that's probably not the whole story though
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
the IC is small and relies on ducted air. Couple that with the fact superchargers are veru efficient might be 20bhp....
Alex
Look at these RS500 front mounted ones tho, these intercoolers cool massivly because of sheer size.
#341
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Originally Posted by AndyRST
Look at these RS500 front mounted ones tho, these intercoolers cool massivly because of sheer size.
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Dingy, why dont you come back down, we will strap it down and i will show you how to run it yourself on our dyno, we can check rpm, run in whatever gear you like put the fan right up to the intercooler and you can put the boost where you so wish, check your act's and coolant temps, make sure the heated rear window is not on, blah blah blah.
you seem to be pointing the finger at me/our dyno for the lack of power your car made, i still believe you had an accurate result, no other person who attended the day seemed unhappy with the figures to the extent that you are.
anyway, offer is there fella.
you seem to be pointing the finger at me/our dyno for the lack of power your car made, i still believe you had an accurate result, no other person who attended the day seemed unhappy with the figures to the extent that you are.
anyway, offer is there fella.
#344
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Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
Dingy, why dont you come back down, we will strap it down and i will show you how to run it yourself on our dyno, we can check rpm, run in whatever gear you like put the fan right up to the intercooler and you can put the boost where you so wish, check your act's and coolant temps, make sure the heated rear window is not on, blah blah blah.
you seem to be pointing the finger at me/our dyno for the lack of power your car made, i still believe you had an accurate result, no other person who attended the day seemed unhappy with the figures to the extent that you are.
anyway, offer is there fella.
you seem to be pointing the finger at me/our dyno for the lack of power your car made, i still believe you had an accurate result, no other person who attended the day seemed unhappy with the figures to the extent that you are.
anyway, offer is there fella.
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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#346
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Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
oh, just on a quick note, did anyone stand in front of our fan sat? ![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
and then one of your other guys turned it off as he was having his shirt blown over his head and couldn't see what he was doing
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
there are a lot of good points being made here and, me not knowing as much as some of the rest of you do about this sort of thing, have learnt a fair bit
![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
as for the problem with dingy's car not making the power, reading it all it seems that the reason is due to it not making as much boost, and now it seems that the reasons are becoming clearer
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#347
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Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
Dingy, why dont you come back down, we will strap it down and i will show you how to run it yourself on our dyno, we can check rpm, run in whatever gear you like put the fan right up to the intercooler and you can put the boost where you so wish, check your act's and coolant temps, make sure the heated rear window is not on, blah blah blah.
you seem to be pointing the finger at me/our dyno for the lack of power your car made, i still believe you had an accurate result, no other person who attended the day seemed unhappy with the figures to the extent that you are.
anyway, offer is there fella.
you seem to be pointing the finger at me/our dyno for the lack of power your car made, i still believe you had an accurate result, no other person who attended the day seemed unhappy with the figures to the extent that you are.
anyway, offer is there fella.
I am not pointing a finger.
I am asking questions mate nothing more, if you don't like the direct questions then i will leave it at that.
And your saying nobles is innaccurate - they read the board to mate.
#348
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Originally Posted by Alan s1
That sounds like a VERY FAIR offer nice one Chris would stop all the moaning imo
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
Less power
Less Torque
Less Boost
Peak power reached lower
All points to the ACT - as this is not known its then its hard to determine the problems but explains it.
#350
Testing the future
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Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
oh, just on a quick note, did anyone stand in front of our fan sat? ![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image557.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image556.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image555.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/VOLVOTRUCK-V1.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image554.jpg)
sorry if christian gets fan jealousy again
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#351
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Dingly,
Regarding the peak power, this would depend on how they picked up the rev signal from your car. Either Chris's will clarify
.
Regarding the peak power, this would depend on how they picked up the rev signal from your car. Either Chris's will clarify
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#352
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Originally Posted by dingy
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Dingly,
Regarding the peak power, this would depend on how they picked up the rev signal from your car. Either Chris's will clarify
.
Regarding the peak power, this would depend on how they picked up the rev signal from your car. Either Chris's will clarify
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#353
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
oh, just on a quick note, did anyone stand in front of our fan sat? ![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image557.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image556.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image555.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/VOLVOTRUCK-V1.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image554.jpg)
sorry if christian gets fan jealousy again
![Red Faced](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
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#354
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Originally Posted by dingy
Originally Posted by Alan s1
That sounds like a VERY FAIR offer nice one Chris would stop all the moaning imo
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
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Less power
Less Torque
Less Boost
Peak power reached lower
All points to the ACT - as this is not known its then its hard to determine the problems but explains it.
![Confused](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif)
Iver way your car was one of my favorts on the day iven my littlen pointed it to me
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#355
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Looking at those pics that Nick posted made me think...
Has anyone in the aftermarket tuning field ever done the simple test of seeing what the air speed equates to out of one of these fans at full chat....
Nick says what he has pictures accurately recreates 70mph conditions, so what sort of speed does a portable fan on most rolling road use?
Does it help to have extraction at the rear as well to help keep the temps down?
Has anyone in the aftermarket tuning field ever done the simple test of seeing what the air speed equates to out of one of these fans at full chat....
Nick says what he has pictures accurately recreates 70mph conditions, so what sort of speed does a portable fan on most rolling road use?
Does it help to have extraction at the rear as well to help keep the temps down?
#356
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Extraction at the rear is vital IMO....
as Nick said earlier, air flows from high pressure to low pressure.
Blowing into a closed box will not be as good as blowing through one, if you catch my drift!
Alex
as Nick said earlier, air flows from high pressure to low pressure.
Blowing into a closed box will not be as good as blowing through one, if you catch my drift!
Alex
#357
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The AVA set up has underfloor extraction and even when it was running on it's temporary low power set up when I first went, you could lean forward into the air flow and it would support you
.
They did also mention the air exchange capabilities, but I can't remember the exact figures, but basically, it could change the ENTIRE air in the dyno cell every several seconds
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![Top](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/smile011.gif)
They did also mention the air exchange capabilities, but I can't remember the exact figures, but basically, it could change the ENTIRE air in the dyno cell every several seconds
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#358
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Originally Posted by AlexF
Extraction at the rear is vital IMO....
as Nick said earlier, air flows from high pressure to low pressure.
Blowing into a closed box will not be as good as blowing through one, if you catch my drift!
Alex
as Nick said earlier, air flows from high pressure to low pressure.
Blowing into a closed box will not be as good as blowing through one, if you catch my drift!
Alex
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#359
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
oh, just on a quick note, did anyone stand in front of our fan sat? ![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Rolling Eyes](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Wink](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image557.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image556.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image555.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/VOLVOTRUCK-V1.jpg)
![](https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/foreigners/climatic%20chamber/Image554.jpg)
sorry if christian gets fan jealousy again
![Red Faced](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
![Surprised](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/bigcry.gif)
Cool, a Rolling road shootout day at your place would be great!, when can we do it
![Big Grin](https://passionford.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
in all seriousness, a fan the size of that would take up our whole unit, I still believe for a 10 sec power pull our fan and extraction is perfectly adequate, charge temps when using that fan when i'm mapping rarely exceed 30 odd degrees C when we have checked them, we recently did some back to back intercooler testing with performance ford and the results were published in either this or last months mags, have a read!
Dingy- , i was not dissing Nobles dyno whatsoever, but they cant prove their dyno reads 100 % correctly and neither can I, what if the figures they give are shown "too high" on some cars?, as i said before, people always want to believe the higher figure.
"ESTIMATED" FLYWHEEL POWER is all a chassis dyno can give, and we estimated yours at 450 bhp
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