Torque of the Devil RR Day - 6th Oct
09-10-2007, 08:33 PM
#281
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
So what changes when a car goes from rollers onto the road?
More air?
More air?
Alot more air, with different loading, so different parts of the map will be getting used, so could turn fatal to the engine if not checked.
in what way?
09-10-2007, 08:36 PM
#282
OK, so I am being a little bit of an arse, but I am just trying to establish for sure that what I suspect is true. Which is that for mapping AFR on the road, providing you can carry out full RPM range runs, with enough time spent, you can achieve good results on the road. However, ignition timing is another thing and the only way this can be set is by the traditional method of mapping to det, then backing off a little.
That said, without sounding like we are cheating and overcharging for what we do, we can actually write a full and VERY comprehensive custom fuel map in half-a-day, with every load site visited that the car will ever hit and even load the car up in such a way that we can visit the (High RPM/Low Load and Low RPM/High Load) sites that may never be covered on the road.
I'm finding this discussion interesting and informative.
That said, without sounding like we are cheating and overcharging for what we do, we can actually write a full and VERY comprehensive custom fuel map in half-a-day, with every load site visited that the car will ever hit and even load the car up in such a way that we can visit the (High RPM/Low Load and Low RPM/High Load) sites that may never be covered on the road.
I'm finding this discussion interesting and informative.
09-10-2007, 08:36 PM
#283
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
So what changes when a car goes from rollers onto the road?
More air?
More air?
Alot more air, with different loading, so different parts of the map will be getting used, so could turn fatal to the engine if not checked.
in what way?
I under stand AVA, and DD's can be loaded fully @ set RPM's for periods,
But not many other RR's can do that.
09-10-2007, 08:38 PM
#284
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
Incidentally, we can det check on the RR too.
We simply carry out a 4th gear pull from low RPM with a slow ramp rate.
If it doesn't det then, it not likely to det.
We simply carry out a 4th gear pull from low RPM with a slow ramp rate.
If it doesn't det then, it not likely to det.
09-10-2007, 08:40 PM
#285
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
So what changes when a car goes from rollers onto the road?
More air?
More air?
Alot more air, with different loading, so different parts of the map will be getting used, so could turn fatal to the engine if not checked.
in what way?
I under stand AVA, and DD's can be loaded fully @ set RPM's for periods,
But not many other RR's can do that.
09-10-2007, 08:40 PM
#286
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
So what changes when a car goes from rollers onto the road?
More air?
More air?
Alot more air, with different loading, so different parts of the map will be getting used, so could turn fatal to the engine if not checked.
in what way?
I under stand AVA, and DD's can be loaded fully @ set RPM's for periods,
But not many other RR's can do that.
09-10-2007, 08:42 PM
#287
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
Incidentally, we can det check on the RR too.
We simply carry out a 4th gear pull from low RPM with a slow ramp rate.
If it doesn't det then, it not likely to det.
We simply carry out a 4th gear pull from low RPM with a slow ramp rate.
If it doesn't det then, it not likely to det.
09-10-2007, 08:43 PM
#288
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
OK, so I am being a little bit of an arse, but I am just trying to establish for sure that what I suspect is true. Which is that for mapping AFR on the road, providing you can carry out full RPM range runs, with enough time spent, you can achieve good results on the road. However, ignition timing is another thing and the only way this can be set is by the traditional method of mapping to det, then backing off a little.
That said, without sounding like we are cheating and overcharging for what we do, we can actually write a full and VERY comprehensive custom fuel map in half-a-day, with every load site visited that the car will ever hit and even load the car up in such a way that we can visit the (High RPM/Low Load and Low RPM/High Load) sites that may never be covered on the road.
I'm finding this discussion interesting and informative.
That said, without sounding like we are cheating and overcharging for what we do, we can actually write a full and VERY comprehensive custom fuel map in half-a-day, with every load site visited that the car will ever hit and even load the car up in such a way that we can visit the (High RPM/Low Load and Low RPM/High Load) sites that may never be covered on the road.
I'm finding this discussion interesting and informative.
thats the way i map ign side of things on the road,
but i have had
Cossie engine in a cell,
and my XR2 on a DD rolling road,
and have tested different ign timing for best results for my setups.
i agree,
idealy, i would prefer a engine run up, tested in a cell,
Then checked/trimmed in car on a proper RR like a DD,
then on the road on a top speeds back to back.
09-10-2007, 08:44 PM
#289
Euan, my only argument against the AVA way of doing things is wondering if their method is overly hard on the car. Holding a car at a given Load/RPM point to monitor all the conditions is fantastic and, I agree, highly accurate, but the car is never likely to undergo those kinds of conditions on the road, so why put it through it on the Dyno?
Surely a slowed acceleration run is adequate?
Not trying to dig at AVA. I know Alan has invested alot of time/knowledge etc into his Dyno. Again, genuinely interested.
Surely a slowed acceleration run is adequate?
Not trying to dig at AVA. I know Alan has invested alot of time/knowledge etc into his Dyno. Again, genuinely interested.
09-10-2007, 08:49 PM
#290
10K+ Poster!!
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
Euan, my only argument against the AVA way of doing things is wondering if their method is overly hard on the car. Holding a car at a given Load/RPM point to monitor all the conditions is fantastic and, I agree, highly accurate, but the car is never likely to undergo those kinds of conditions on the road, so why put it through it on the Dyno?
Surely a slowed acceleration run is adequate?
Not trying to dig at AVA. I know Alan has invested alot of time/knowledge etc into his Dyno. Again, genuinely interested.
Surely a slowed acceleration run is adequate?
Not trying to dig at AVA. I know Alan has invested alot of time/knowledge etc into his Dyno. Again, genuinely interested.
to be fair I dont think mine would get this testing if it wasnt used for high speed/high load stuff.
09-10-2007, 08:49 PM
#291
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
My car was held at full boost, full throttle @8 thousand revs for 10 seconds last week to propely check the map and to get true power figs at true temperatures. I dont know any other RR that does that?
i also hold my cars @ full boost, and RPM's in 3rd to top gear on the road, but using brakes.
But not as long as 10 seconds, and not on a RR, where tha cooling isn't the same as on the road.
Also i see it pointless on a RR, when not checked/trimmed a top speed run, as different load site, and temps will/might be seen, so its fueling and ign will not be adequate.
10-10-2007, 10:05 AM
#293
I've just spent the last hour reading this, and certain comments I feel SHOULD be qualified by the people making them (Rod's for example 
). There is no way that Mark would build a high power engine, and then go straight to the road and map it from scratch, IF he had a choice of being able to put it on an engine dyno first .
I AGREE that checking a car on the road is a wise thing to do, just to make sure everything is all okay in it's mormal environment (often no changes are actually required). HOWEVER, in my mind, it has to be properly mapped and HELD at certain loads sites for the correct ignition to be mapped. This can ONLY be done, repeated and checked for improvements on a chassis or engine dyno. Otherwise, how the fuck do you know if any mods you have done have actually gained or lost you power?
Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.
It seems to me that all the cars mapped in a MEASURABLE way, performed better on the rolling road than those that were mapped by "seat of the pants feel" only. So in my opinion, the moral of this story is to map on a dyno of some description, THEN check on road (and mod where necessary). Mapping on the road alone doesn't produce the results people hope for it would seem.
). There is no way that Mark would build a high power engine, and then go straight to the road and map it from scratch, IF he had a choice of being able to put it on an engine dyno first .I AGREE that checking a car on the road is a wise thing to do, just to make sure everything is all okay in it's mormal environment (often no changes are actually required). HOWEVER, in my mind, it has to be properly mapped and HELD at certain loads sites for the correct ignition to be mapped. This can ONLY be done, repeated and checked for improvements on a chassis or engine dyno. Otherwise, how the fuck do you know if any mods you have done have actually gained or lost you power?
Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley
) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.It seems to me that all the cars mapped in a MEASURABLE way, performed better on the rolling road than those that were mapped by "seat of the pants feel" only. So in my opinion, the moral of this story is to map on a dyno of some description, THEN check on road (and mod where necessary). Mapping on the road alone doesn't produce the results people hope for it would seem.
10-10-2007, 10:11 AM
#294
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
But I'm still intrigued, someone educate me. How do you map the ignition curve on the road? Serious question?
There is only one method I can think of, perhaps I am being ignorant, and that is to advance to the point of det, then back off slightly.
Come on, enlighten me.
There is only one method I can think of, perhaps I am being ignorant, and that is to advance to the point of det, then back off slightly.
Come on, enlighten me.
Its not ideal as you say.
But then again there is an awful lot of exisiting maps you can start with, and the more experienced you are with one make the more maps you will have to refer to.
10-10-2007, 10:18 AM
#295
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Christian and Beccy
Also, the acceleration characteristics can be different on the road, but then the processing speeds of your ECU may be an issue before worrying about that.
That can process about 3 million instructions per second!!!!
I think you'll find an ECU can keep up with the demands an engine places on it!
Mike,
I said that a few pages back
Alex
10-10-2007, 10:21 AM
#296
Originally Posted by G1EN
Bit of a late reply to the thread.
But had a wicked day, despite learning that my car has more that 2 diffs and that the 3rd one being the viscous diff in the Box was Fook'd.
Oh well, thats cossies for you, It made it on the rollers for a few seconds anyway....
There were some tasty motors there and some animals too.
Well done TOTD for a good day and well done Radders for Organising it.
I will have my new Box in ready for the next one....
But had a wicked day, despite learning that my car has more that 2 diffs and that the 3rd one being the viscous diff in the Box was Fook'd.
Oh well, thats cossies for you, It made it on the rollers for a few seconds anyway....
There were some tasty motors there and some animals too.
Well done TOTD for a good day and well done Radders for Organising it.
I will have my new Box in ready for the next one....
and there was me thinking he's sped up the proccess until matt said that the diff was fooked
it's a diy job if you want to get your hands dirty, don't even have to take the box out
10-10-2007, 10:29 AM
#297
one more thing
out on the road in "the real world" you also have the effects of the air risistance to contend with, so you aren't going to be in a stationary car spinning it's wheels against nothing but the car will also pull a fair bit of weight behind it to pull aslong as well
you may be able to simulate these conditions on the rollers but you can't simulate wind resistance can you
out on the road in "the real world" you also have the effects of the air risistance to contend with, so you aren't going to be in a stationary car spinning it's wheels against nothing but the car will also pull a fair bit of weight behind it to pull aslong as well
you may be able to simulate these conditions on the rollers but you can't simulate wind resistance can you
10-10-2007, 10:31 AM
#298
Happily retired
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I've just spent the last hour reading this, and certain comments I feel SHOULD be qualified by the people making them (Rod's for example ). There is no way that Mark would build a high power engine, and then go straight to the road and map it from scratch, IF he had a choice of being able to put it on an engine dyno first .
Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.
). There is no way that Mark would build a high power engine, and then go straight to the road and map it from scratch, IF he had a choice of being able to put it on an engine dyno first .Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley
) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.My car is checked on the day before every Topspeed run & sometimes more than once on & off the Nitrous.
Mike what ancilliaries dont I run on the Dyno I can only think of Power steering & I remove the belt for Topspeed runs anyway.
.
10-10-2007, 10:39 AM
#299
Originally Posted by MadRod
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I've just spent the last hour reading this, and certain comments I feel SHOULD be qualified by the people making them (Rod's for example ). There is no way that Mark would build a high power engine, and then go straight to the road and map it from scratch, IF he had a choice of being able to put it on an engine dyno first .
Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.
). There is no way that Mark would build a high power engine, and then go straight to the road and map it from scratch, IF he had a choice of being able to put it on an engine dyno first .Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley
) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.My car is checked on the day before every Topspeed run & sometimes more than once on & off the Nitrous.
Mike what ancilliaries dont I run on the Dyno I can only think of Power steering & I remove the belt for Topspeed runs anyway.
.. It sounded as though you advocated just on-road mapping .I didn't realise you plumbed up your alternator and water pump to the engine on the dyno (I never noticed them in the pictures)
? I never also realised you took the power steering belt off 
. I can remember when mine broke at the first ever top-speed run I did and Harvey insisted he replaced it, as he wanted me to have as much control as possible if anything went wrong .
10-10-2007, 10:49 AM
#300
Happily retired
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Karl
Christian, I agree it is not a job I take lightly. It requires skill and nerves, but as with all things it gets easier with time and experience.
Rapid cossie, you are playing my words. By cannot I mean you CANNOT simulate the correct conditions which is potentially dangerous. Obviously you can map any car on a RR physically. (i.e by cannot i mean "cannot correctly" not "cannot physically")
Another good example is how many cars do you see being tested live at brunters during top speed runs....................errr most of them. Why would we do this if we were confident with our RR map?
Rapid cossie, you are playing my words. By cannot I mean you CANNOT simulate the correct conditions which is potentially dangerous. Obviously you can map any car on a RR physically. (i.e by cannot i mean "cannot correctly" not "cannot physically")
Another good example is how many cars do you see being tested live at brunters during top speed runs....................errr most of them. Why would we do this if we were confident with our RR map?
My car was not tested on the run way, as we were confident in how it was set up.
we were not measuring afrs when it ran at woodbridge or listening for det.
I agreed with Dingy yesterday & Karl today WTF
. Mine is tested before & during each run & Mark does make slight changes. Euan you may be losing Power because of your insistance that your car is perfectly mapped on the R-R which be assured it aint, may be close but Topspeed runs are all about Optimising your car for the run about to take place not on a R-R done days maybe weeks before. Maybe just maybe Mark & myself have more Knowledge in this area than most.
10-10-2007, 10:53 AM
#301
Originally Posted by MadRod
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Karl
Christian, I agree it is not a job I take lightly. It requires skill and nerves, but as with all things it gets easier with time and experience.
Rapid cossie, you are playing my words. By cannot I mean you CANNOT simulate the correct conditions which is potentially dangerous. Obviously you can map any car on a RR physically. (i.e by cannot i mean "cannot correctly" not "cannot physically")
Another good example is how many cars do you see being tested live at brunters during top speed runs....................errr most of them. Why would we do this if we were confident with our RR map?
Rapid cossie, you are playing my words. By cannot I mean you CANNOT simulate the correct conditions which is potentially dangerous. Obviously you can map any car on a RR physically. (i.e by cannot i mean "cannot correctly" not "cannot physically")
Another good example is how many cars do you see being tested live at brunters during top speed runs....................errr most of them. Why would we do this if we were confident with our RR map?
My car was not tested on the run way, as we were confident in how it was set up.
we were not measuring afrs when it ran at woodbridge or listening for det.
I agreed with Dingy yesterday & Karl today WTF
. Mine is tested before & during each run & Mark does make slight changes. Euan you may be losing Power because of your insistance that your car is perfectly mapped on the R-R which be assured it aint, may be close but Topspeed runs are all about Optimising your car for the run about to take place not on a R-R done days maybe weeks before. Maybe just maybe Mark & myself have more Knowledge in this area than most. .Christian seems to have done okay too
.
10-10-2007, 11:04 AM
#302
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by dojj
you may be able to simulate these conditions on the rollers but you can't simulate wind resistance can you
you push using the engine via the wheels....
a rolling road places a load on the wheels....
Hence you can simulate the effect wind resistance has at the wheels.
Alex
10-10-2007, 11:50 AM
#303
Happily retired
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by MadRod
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Karl
Christian, I agree it is not a job I take lightly. It requires skill and nerves, but as with all things it gets easier with time and experience.
Rapid cossie, you are playing my words. By cannot I mean you CANNOT simulate the correct conditions which is potentially dangerous. Obviously you can map any car on a RR physically. (i.e by cannot i mean "cannot correctly" not "cannot physically")
Another good example is how many cars do you see being tested live at brunters during top speed runs....................errr most of them. Why would we do this if we were confident with our RR map?
Rapid cossie, you are playing my words. By cannot I mean you CANNOT simulate the correct conditions which is potentially dangerous. Obviously you can map any car on a RR physically. (i.e by cannot i mean "cannot correctly" not "cannot physically")
Another good example is how many cars do you see being tested live at brunters during top speed runs....................errr most of them. Why would we do this if we were confident with our RR map?
My car was not tested on the run way, as we were confident in how it was set up.
we were not measuring afrs when it ran at woodbridge or listening for det.
I agreed with Dingy yesterday & Karl today WTF
. Mine is tested before & during each run & Mark does make slight changes. Euan you may be losing Power because of your insistance that your car is perfectly mapped on the R-R which be assured it aint, may be close but Topspeed runs are all about Optimising your car for the run about to take place not on a R-R done days maybe weeks before. Maybe just maybe Mark & myself have more Knowledge in this area than most. .Christian seems to have done okay too
. . My old banger with less than 500bhp ran over 183 years backthese later cars should be mincing 185 easy. Ades did 185.5 with 520bhp.
Dont these facts go in, seems not.
10-10-2007, 11:56 AM
#304
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what the hell is this?
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/AlexF2...73682504278162
is it a nissan with a ferarri look-a-like kit?
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/AlexF2...73682504278162
is it a nissan with a ferarri look-a-like kit?
10-10-2007, 11:58 AM
#305
Originally Posted by AlexF
Originally Posted by dojj
you may be able to simulate these conditions on the rollers but you can't simulate wind resistance can you
you push using the engine via the wheels....
a rolling road places a load on the wheels....
Hence you can simulate the effect wind resistance has at the wheels.
Alex
10-10-2007, 12:34 PM
#306
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Originally Posted by dojj
Originally Posted by G1EN
Bit of a late reply to the thread.
But had a wicked day, despite learning that my car has more that 2 diffs and that the 3rd one being the viscous diff in the Box was Fook'd.
Oh well, thats cossies for you, It made it on the rollers for a few seconds anyway....
There were some tasty motors there and some animals too.
Well done TOTD for a good day and well done Radders for Organising it.
I will have my new Box in ready for the next one....
But had a wicked day, despite learning that my car has more that 2 diffs and that the 3rd one being the viscous diff in the Box was Fook'd.
Oh well, thats cossies for you, It made it on the rollers for a few seconds anyway....
There were some tasty motors there and some animals too.
Well done TOTD for a good day and well done Radders for Organising it.
I will have my new Box in ready for the next one....
and there was me thinking he's sped up the proccess until matt said that the diff was fooked
it's a diy job if you want to get your hands dirty, don't even have to take the box out
But i would dare touch my car, would only have myself to blame if it went wrong and double the cost.
Im not a car mechanic, so would attempt to be honest, I'll leave it to the professionals.
I fancy a new bOX, So fook it. Prob easy to just change the box, than strip it.
If its in the Box then how would you not have to take the Box out?
10-10-2007, 12:46 PM
#307
15K+ Super Poster!!
How is ignition mapped on the road? Quite simply to be honest if you have the right data logging stuff.
You simply do repeated rpm pulls in a chosen gear, when there is no or little wind. You then look at the plot, and alter ignition timing and see which way it pushes acceleration, hence power. I've written a little equation that displays the results as a power curve. The absolute figure is lower than the real as it doesn't take into account mechanical and aero losses, but it's 100% repeatable, and relative figures are all we are interested in. It is without question, time permitting, the best way of doing it. I've no net at home at the moment, otherwise i'd post some examples of the method in practice.
Rick.
You simply do repeated rpm pulls in a chosen gear, when there is no or little wind. You then look at the plot, and alter ignition timing and see which way it pushes acceleration, hence power. I've written a little equation that displays the results as a power curve. The absolute figure is lower than the real as it doesn't take into account mechanical and aero losses, but it's 100% repeatable, and relative figures are all we are interested in. It is without question, time permitting, the best way of doing it. I've no net at home at the moment, otherwise i'd post some examples of the method in practice.
Rick.
10-10-2007, 12:52 PM
#308
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley ) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.
) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.
10-10-2007, 01:02 PM
#309
Originally Posted by gingeRS
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley ) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.
) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.the engine dyno will have a water setup
10-10-2007, 01:07 PM
#310
The one thing that I can't get my head round, is if mapping entirely on the road is so good, why is it that the cars that were ONLY done in this way, did not perform on the rollers? 
Rod,
I honestly believe that with optimised gearing and favourable weather conditions that 187mph is achievable in a Sapphire with 520bhp. It's just trying to get it to all come together on the same day.
Rod,
I honestly believe that with optimised gearing and favourable weather conditions that 187mph is achievable in a Sapphire with 520bhp. It's just trying to get it to all come together on the same day
.
10-10-2007, 01:44 PM
#313
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Originally Posted by GUZZLER
Originally Posted by gingeRS
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Also it needs highlighting again (for the benefit of Dingy and Paul Ripley ) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.
) that the engine dyno figures are a GROSS figure, without the ancilliaries on, so if a rolling road EVER gives a calculated flywheel figure that matches the engine dyno figure, it is BULLSHIT, as you would expect to loose 20-25bhp when put in the car due to all the ancilliaries (water pump, alternator, power-steering etc) sapping a certain amount of power.the engine dyno will have a water setup
i didnt know that
10-10-2007, 01:44 PM
#314
escort mk4 cossy 4x4
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
The one thing that I can't get my head round, is if mapping entirely on the road is so good, why is it that the cars that were ONLY done in this way, did not perform on the rollers?
Rod,
I honestly believe that with optimised gearing and favourable weather conditions that 187mph is achievable in a Sapphire with 520bhp. It's just trying to get it to all come together on the same day.
Rod,
I honestly believe that with optimised gearing and favourable weather conditions that 187mph is achievable in a Sapphire with 520bhp. It's just trying to get it to all come together on the same day
.
10-10-2007, 01:50 PM
#315
Originally Posted by lloyd
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
The one thing that I can't get my head round, is if mapping entirely on the road is so good, why is it that the cars that were ONLY done in this way, did not perform on the rollers?
Rod,
I honestly believe that with optimised gearing and favourable weather conditions that 187mph is achievable in a Sapphire with 520bhp. It's just trying to get it to all come together on the same day.
Rod,
I honestly believe that with optimised gearing and favourable weather conditions that 187mph is achievable in a Sapphire with 520bhp. It's just trying to get it to all come together on the same day
.What did you get, as I haven't seen any figures posted for you?
Boost / bhp / torque / AFR?
10-10-2007, 01:56 PM
#318
RS2000 4x4
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no idea what boost or AFR but he wasnt running his nos, no idea on the spec of the engine and i dunno if he is running a skyline conversion,
i do know that he promised me a passenger ride in it tho which should be fun
i do know that he promised me a passenger ride in it tho which should be fun
10-10-2007, 02:03 PM
#319
Originally Posted by G1EN
If its in the Box then how would you not have to take the Box out?
it's in the end of the box
you can remove the rear prop and pull the rear case off the back, swap the bits you need to swap and then bolt it back together again
the only things you would need to do are watch out for teh bearings and undo the little metal plate that holds it all together (4 bolts) once the cover is off