AlexF

arr I'm pulling ya chain

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Well he dont mean TIT does he

AlexF

or bmw...

or rst???

LOL

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Edit - Double post, sorry.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

makes sense now mate. u made 480 at 26 psi at nobles so your not a mile out now. still a good result especially for 27 psi

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

What car has LOL on the back

AndyRST

paul had an unknown chipped ecu and has since found out the chip has a 18psi boost limit in it. When the car was run the night before it wasn't hitting the limit and was making 192bhp. The next day the car was run it was making 183bhp (maybe temperature related) they could have added another 1-2 psi boost in to exceed the 192 of the previous day but the boost limit wouldnt allow that.

Dingy

Boost curve looked fine though....

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

Ambient temp gets corrected tho ?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Dingy's run shows an Intake temp of 36° against an Ambient temp of 22°, that will have corrected the power upwards slightly if anything.

BillyCabrio

iTrader: (1)

Either way i'm happy.

Its now a reliable car with good power......

Thanks Chris for your magic, out 'little' chat and suprising me with what you said after ny RR run yesterday

Also thanks to Radders for organising the whole event, good to see Lee again and out 'heated' chat with Radders

lead_foot

iTrader: (1)

What does; BP, RH, RR and TN indicate on the graph Chris?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Looks like you all had a great day.

AndyRST

im talking about the car making more or less power/boost not the way the rolling road software corrects the bhp reading related to temps

PF Dave

LOL - Not going to get involved in any of the politics here, sure this post will run for a while though!

Christian - If you can do another one after xmas we'd love to come along to that, was an excellent day last time, I'll have two new toys to blow up too!

Karl - Hello mate, and of course Tim and Ollie have an invite - You keep evolving the cars, we'll keep seeing how that evolution makes them quicker!

Radders and Chris at TOTD - Sorry I couldn't make it myself but sounds like everyone still had a great day. Thanks again for putting the event on!

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

No probs mate, Thanks for featuring it anyway

Will defo be up for APT RR day too

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

OK, I will suggest some dates soon. Perhaps Feb/March time?

Dingy

Does linsay get her free run then

I will come....the fucking gas and 40psi

Dingy

Can i just say...

I am very pleased with how the car performs and regardless of the figures today. I don't believe its less than 500bhp to be honest but everyones car appeared to be down on power.

Thanks for to TOTD staff and Radders....also good to speak to nick @ pf and everyone else i spoke to......especially the legend that is john nutter...

Dingy

Same engine and more boost plus its a level 6 and its now faster - and we all know speed = bhp

rapidcossie

I think the prob is that the DD rollers cant seem to load the cars up to be able to run the boost that they should be running.

Less boost mean less power.

Who would come to AVA if i orginised a rolling road day?

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

I will if the cars done its not that far

dojj

iTrader: (3)

my reasoning is a bit complex, but baiscly very easy
1, chris has never run an auto car on the rollers bfore (other than 2 big heavy mosnter cars) so there was no actual real data he could have compared against, there was no way he could have seen where the power losses could have come from or how the graph could have been interpreted
2, auto cars don't respond very well on the rollers, i've been to a few with an auto (the 24V) and the differences are quite remarkable
120 @ the wheels = 240 at the fly?
then, the next time the car was run it made 140 @ the wheels = 180 at the fly
3, the graph ewssentially reproduced exactly the same resluts as the car would do on the road, no power below 2000 rpm and suddenly coming alive after about 4000 rpm right up till the 6500 rpm red line
4, some people said the cat did smell a bit offs o a blockage in there might have contributed to the poor resluts of 90@the wheels and 112 or so at the fly

as far as i could make out, alex was of the onion that either bmw vastly over inflated their figures or that the rollers were wrong, but, again, wihtout another car there to compare it against, there is no way to tell one way or the other

don't know about cab

so there we have it, i'm happy with the way the car performs out on the road and, unlike some others, i took the printout and didn't query it, i on;y wanted to see what the car put out and to make up the numbers, if there had been space i would have bought the vito along, which is supposed to make 110 brake

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, Me and my mate would I reckon but not this side of xmas.. He got a supercharged swift, should be good for 250bhp!

Fuck knows what mine is, 290bhp maybe

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

As I said when we spoke on MSN.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

We rarely get involved with Auto's BTW, they are an absolute bastard to run. If we do have to, we always give the results a wide berth and advise the customer in advance that this is the case.

mk1 chris

[quote="dingy"]

Comparing Rolling roads is crazy...

Examples...

320 @ wheels at AVA - t34 slow LOL 405 on dyno and 380 @ fly in car
435 @ wheels at nobles and 561 @ fly T4 @ 31psi.....(boost from there dataloggin)

Now at TOTD it made 380@wheels and 450 @ fly but failed to hold boost and only ran 27psi...

Took radders out on road and checked boost - same as when it ran at nobles..

My runs @ totd had far to many variables and to many changes from 400 to 430 to 410 to 440 to 450.....Car remains the same just how the operator decided to run the car up... so am taking the figure with a pinch of salt cause the boost is down etc...also my graph shows it was run in 3rd and it was run up in 4th - gary @ apt mentioned this could be a possible 10-15-20bhp difference in the overall power...

Going on that and the lack of the 4 to 5 psi could explain the loss in power.

4x4 cars seem to have better readings than 2wd's also having looked at lloyds figure - made 50bhp more than mine at a part run with a very simular engine and i think less boost...

Also why did billiecabs make less power over night....and claimed to be hiting the boost limit....nothing had changed on the car...

The reasons for the variables in the power of your car were explained at the time, we think the air injectors may have been responsible for freaking out the air temp sensor, we changed the sensor for you and its position and cured that, checked straps etc many times and still the car showed no more than 450 odd bhp, obviously people will lean towards believing the higher power figure from another dyno no matter how innacurate that may have been, 126 bhp transmission loss on the noble dyno for a 2wd car?, jesus.

Billie cabrio's car was overboosting when tested, this was not "claimed" as you put it, it was - period, this did not happen the night before or i would have never been able to tune it, air density effects boost pressure and must have tipped it over the boost limit threshold.

Can't wait for the next dyno day!, i love em!

timturbo

Billy your car looked stunning loving all the flocked interior great all round car

mk1 chris

[quote="Chris@torque of the devil"]The reasons for the variables in the power of your car were explained at the time, I went to great lengths to remove any doubt the car was run correctly, we think the air injectors may have been responsible for freaking out the air temp sensor, we changed the sensor for you and its position and cured that, checked straps etc many times and still the car showed no more than 450 odd bhp, obviously people will lean towards believing the higher power figure from another dyno no matter how innacurate that may have been, 126 bhp transmission loss on the noble dyno for a 2wd car?, jesus.

Billie cabrio's car was overboosting when tested, this was not "claimed" as you put it, it was - period, this did not happen the night before or i would have never been able to tune it, air density effects boost pressure and must have tipped it over the boost limit threshold.

we also proved with both linsay's and john nutter's cars that a 3rd run or 4th gear run made no difference to the peak power shown.

Can't wait for the next dyno day!, i love em!

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

So, with Dingy's, the difference really is 55bhp at the wheels, between Nobles and TOTD. I don't think Nobles 'Flywheel' figure should even be discussed. It's toilet.

55bhp is a feasible amount to lose if the boost was lower at TOTD for whatever reason. Mine wasn't though. 20pi on the road, 20psi on our dyno, 20psi on TOTD's. Simple as.

Dingy

As you know all rollers are calulated differently then why the dig at nobles ?

If your saying my car is 450bhp then fine but i honestly don't think it is, due the lack of boost on your rollers. Can you explain this ?

As for billies - wasn't the bleed valve being played with

Dingy

Different rollers mate - hardly toilet......

Thats like saying AVA's ATW figures is bollox to.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Dingy, surely as a man who has been involved in the tuning scene for quite a few years, you must realise that 130bhp losses from a RWD transmission is beyond belief? So, IMO, disregard the Nobles flywheel figure and accept that the boost difference was the reason for the lack of power at TOTD. Not sure why, but there is no argument IMO.

Dingy

Am not looking for an arguement pal just giving an opinion.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

So you're saying that 130bhp loss through the 2wd transmission is acceptable??

Absofuckinglutely not.

I believe you car made 430ATW at Nobles, but the 560bhp Flywheel figure is wank. TOTD estimated 70bhp between Wheel/Flywheel, which is a perfectly reasonable transmission loss figure, so based on that I reckon your car is just about 500bhp at 31psi.

mk1 chris

Dingy - Billies bleed valve was being adjusted, its no secret and i'm sure you were not the only person to see me do it, the reason was to try and get the boost high enough to produce good power without it overboosting.

Dingy

I was taking the piss mate.....

Dingy

Its a rr mate - aint reality...

Put the car in a straight line with the evo say in 3rd gear and see how much it doesn't pull away from me

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Dingy, thats not the discussion. We are discussing RR figures.

I have arrived at a reasonable explanation.

Imagine if I posted a claimed figure of 400bhp, but could only prove 280 at the wheels? You'd be all over me like a rash and you know it. Mine made 250ATW for 295 at the Flywheel. A perfectly reasonable loss figure.

Yours made 380ATW for 450 at the Flywheel, again a perfectly reasonable loss figure.

Gary's made just under 500ATW for 615 at the Flywheel. Guess what? Thats reasonable too.

However, 430ATW for 561 at the Flywheel is just comedy.

Dingy

So then going on that then....given the weight the evo should easily pull away from me....

Some how don't think it would.