Torque of the Devil RR Day - 6th Oct
11-10-2007, 10:17 AM
#362
Testing the future
Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
Cool, a Rolling road shootout day at your place would be great!, when can we do it 
in all seriousness, a fan the size of that would take up our whole unit, I still believe for a 10 sec power pull our fan and extraction is perfectly adequate, charge temps when using that fan when i'm mapping rarely exceed 30 odd degrees C when we have checked them, we recently did some back to back intercooler testing with performance ford and the results were published in either this or last months mags, have a read!
Dingy- , i was not dissing Nobles dyno whatsoever, but they cant prove their dyno reads 100 % correctly and neither can I, what if the figures they give are shown "too high" on some cars?, as i said before, people always want to believe the higher figure.
"ESTIMATED" FLYWHEEL POWER is all a chassis dyno can give, and we estimated yours at 450 bhp .
in all seriousness, a fan the size of that would take up our whole unit, I still believe for a 10 sec power pull our fan and extraction is perfectly adequate, charge temps when using that fan when i'm mapping rarely exceed 30 odd degrees C when we have checked them, we recently did some back to back intercooler testing with performance ford and the results were published in either this or last months mags, have a read!
Dingy- , i was not dissing Nobles dyno whatsoever, but they cant prove their dyno reads 100 % correctly and neither can I, what if the figures they give are shown "too high" on some cars?, as i said before, people always want to believe the higher figure.
"ESTIMATED" FLYWHEEL POWER is all a chassis dyno can give, and we estimated yours at 450 bhp
.
your fan may well be adequate for a power run
i can't comment without being there and measuring temperaturesdifferent cars will have different requirements for the cooling air flow and it could be that the shape of steves mk2 combined with the packaging of the cooling components makes it very difficult for the air from your particular fan setup to flow through them when it could be ok on the road
it's a pity that ACT's were not monitored on both runs that are being compared, as although you can still not expect the readings to be identical (particularly the ESTIMATED flywheel), the ATW figures should be similar.
Originally Posted by RichardPON
Has anyone in the aftermarket tuning field ever done the simple test of seeing what the air speed equates to out of one of these fans at full chat....
Nick says what he has pictures accurately recreates 70mph conditions, so what sort of speed does a portable fan on most rolling road use?
Nick says what he has pictures accurately recreates 70mph conditions, so what sort of speed does a portable fan on most rolling road use?
it's about the volume/mass of air. heat exchangers (like radiators, intercoolers etc) work on that basis and are tested at various airflow rates to see how much cooling they can do.the cooling performance of an intercooler is basically the mass flow of air across it, multiplied by the temperature difference between the air going on, and the air coming off. this is the same as the air going through the core multiplied by the temperature difference between the air going into it (from the turbo compressor) and the air coming out (going into the engine, known as the Air Charge Temperature). as the air temp coming out of the compressor is probably in excess of 100 deg. C, it doesn't really matter if the ambient temperature in the dyno room is 20 deg. C or 30 deg.C - heat will still be exchanged as long as there is enough airflow. obviously you cannot cool the ACT to below the ambient temperature though, so ultimately given enough airflow and a big enough I/C the cooler ambient will give a cooler ACT
as the airflow figure in the quation is in the thousands, and the temperature difference would be about 100, you can see that the airflow is 10 times more important than the temperature difference
perhaps one of the intercooler manufacturers can supply some data for an 'rs500' intercooler of cooling performance vs. airflow at different ambient temperatures?
one thing that we should also mention is that the ACT sensor will reduce power if it sees high temperatures - the ACT sensor may not always directly sense the temperature of the air going into the engine as it can be affected by the temperature of the inlet manifold that it is mounted into. that effect can be different on the rolling road to on the road (again, mostly due to airflow)
11-10-2007, 11:10 AM
#363
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Originally Posted by foreigneRS
different cars will have different requirements for the cooling air flow and it could be that the shape of steves mk2 combined with the packaging of the cooling components makes it very difficult for the air from your particular fan setup to flow through them when it could be ok on the road
11-10-2007, 01:23 PM
#367
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
do i really care.
11-10-2007, 01:40 PM
#369
10K+ Poster!!
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
do i really care.
I could have booked my car in with BMW UK for them to check the manufactures output figures on their own RR...
Am I bothered?
Face?
Bothered?
Car?
Bothered?
Face?
Bothered?
Mk2 Escort?
Bothered?
MINI?
Bothered?
I AIN'T BOTHERED!!
11-10-2007, 03:12 PM
#371
PassionFord Post Troll
Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
the Mk2 escort was not developed to have an intercooler where steves is, its location was not researched in a wind tunnel as far as i'm aware i'm sure that most of the air hitting the front of the car must go through it but......, oh god listen to me.........do i really care.
Did the mk2 in the late 60's early 70's get developed in a wind tunnel....
Have you seen how flat they are.....
11-10-2007, 04:02 PM
#373
PassionFord Post Troll
Originally Posted by foreigneRS
they must have done some aerodynamic testing - hence why proper mk2's have a nose cone 
Paul bailey had to modify his i believe
11-10-2007, 04:40 PM
#375
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Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
Originally Posted by CaftDunt
Some good pics!
Who's was the Venturi and what was up with it as it looks like it was towed there?
Is it the dreaded French electronics!
Who's was the Venturi and what was up with it as it looks like it was towed there?
Is it the dreaded French electronics!
What engines in them? Is it some sort of renault?
11-10-2007, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dingy
Originally Posted by Chris@torque of the devil
the Mk2 escort was not developed to have an intercooler where steves is, its location was not researched in a wind tunnel as far as i'm aware i'm sure that most of the air hitting the front of the car must go through it but......, oh god listen to me.........do i really care.
Did the mk2 in the late 60's early 70's get developed in a wind tunnel....
Have you seen how flat they are.....
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