rapidcossie

I was having a laugh

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Why did they change the block for the RS500 then? That's 2wd and if what you are saying is true then there was no need was there? Don't know why I'm bothering to be honest!

K.Goa

I`ve seen years of abuse on 205 block, wirerung and 2,2 bars of boost, block is under rebuild to produce even more power.
my engingebuilder recently had a 205, 200 and my 205 YBD block at ultrasound to find exactly what is different, he is not done analysing the data yet.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

you can't win an arguement with someone who knows better than you Martin

Stuart.W

I know, but seriously I worked in Inner Mongolia (China) for 5 weeks once and it was a shit hole with very few dogs

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

so u saying the 205 block can not handle 400+ bhp power yer i know that the rs500 block was stronger but that waas the racing to handle big power on the track giving large for long periods of time!we r talking bout road cars here,200 blocks where made stronger to cope with the extra weight and stress of the 4x4 system not because the 205 block was weak in a 2wd!and no i dont think i know more the anyone on here!just surprises me that people slag of the 205 block when there nothting wrong with the design

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

It might handle 400+BHP indefinatly, but if you are building a big power YB, why not start with the best components you can??

Stuart.W

I'd be very interested to read their findings but even if they came back and said 205 was the way to go i'd still use a long studded 200 block regardless!

For me (my wallet, my decision) I've listened to those that I chose to listen to and decided from them and what I read / hear what I want to use for an engine between 600-900hp.

Are there any 205 YBB engines that run over 700hp (or near that)?

I assume the only 700hp 205 block engines are built from YBD RS500 blocks which I also assume have been long studded (which you can't do to a YBB)?

Having spent hundreds of £'s & hours modifying (shaved 5kgs off) a 205 YBB block many years ago I honestly wish I could use the fucker but i'm not risking £10K just because some "Believer" said so


K.Goa, is yours a standard 205 YBB block and what turbo / power is it out of interest?

macca33

So is long studding good or bad??

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

dont know fella some say stndard headbolts others swear by long studding only both have advantages and disadvantages

Dannn

The thing is where did the people you listen to/read get their information from.....what makes them right ?

This is why I love reading what Karl writes as he does backup what he says with his own findings even if its just to prove it to himself.

I'm no expert but I have always found it strange that most long studding involves just doing the centre bolts - that just don't seem right to me. Surely if you do it you should do them all or nothing at all, not half a job.

Now if you take long studding out of the equation and maybe even 4wd. Which one is stronger, is there much difference at all ?

Does the block split in half when running 500bhp on a 205 block ? I have heard of more cracked 200 blocks that 205 blocks but then that could be down to just ratio of 200 to 205 blocks out there...

I'll be honest I would probably take a brand new 200 block all day long buts that because its a good bet and probably because all the hype over the years has the better of me.

Anyway here is hoping that Karl or someone else writesa nice piece about the two different blocks as it would be an interesting read.....

Who's the beleiver you or them

puddy

Cheers mate

Now all I need is some one to machine my new 4x4 mahle pistons for BD16,s

and 6.8-1,fit steel liners to my block and find out why it melted in the 1st

place

puddy

stu21t

if you ran a 200 block with a grp a gasket and std headbolts at 450ish bhp

what would go wrong?

if you did a head gasket, no problem just replace it, with same again or a wrc type.

but what happens if the bolts fail?
do they snap? or pull the thread out of the block? either way you could always long stud the block after. couldnt you?

im thinking i might leave mine as a 200 block with std headbolts and a grp a gasket, up the power and see what happens, then do the studs later if i have to.

Stuart.W

I dont know but i'd guess they will try new things themselves and also decide if what they hear / read from others is of any use, its what you decide will work for you that matters, McLaren are pretty good at this
Yes it really does happen in Motorsport and pretty much through out life, simple.

I personally am happy enough that I BELIEVE their engines produce the power & are reliable.



I too love reading all technical stuff on this and other sites including what Karl writes but I don't think his findings have been highly detailed on here? I wouldn't blame any tuner for not disclosing their results after spending alot of time and money though!

As much as I too would like to read what Karl or someone else writes about the two different blocks as it would hopefully be a very interesting read but I don't see why Karl or any other tuner has to Justify what they have decided upon.

Its simply down to YOU to decide WHO to use.

With regard to a 205 YBB engine, THEM. But I think you assumed my original quote was comparing long studing against normal length bolts/studs? If that were the case then yes I BELIEVE long studding is the best way FOR ME


It seems that people need to have their hand held, you choose your tuner, you spend your money, now get the fuck on with it

Would like to thank all those that contribute to making this site interesting

jaimesdna

iTrader: (3)

quite often the block will crack from where the bolts go in, to the water jacket. not as bad as it sounds as it can be repaired by long studding. which is up to you if you want to just long stud it in the first place & save the hasstle of doing it later

JonnyBravo

Why does long studding make the crack between the water galleries ok ?

This is exactly what has happened to mine and tbh IF I can salvage my block then I will as 200 blocks are not really that cheap to sort.

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

Because the stud takes it's anchorage point lower down and does not use the cracked area.

markk

iTrader: (2)

but this then give you other areas to over come like another water orifice to have to seal with your gasket, 9/10 times this cracked area also raises proud from the block, and the other small issue of block strength, some say this is now a weak point other dont.

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I agree but do know many cars that have had no issues with this.

JonnyBravo

Thanks Martin for that advice.

I'd rather not scrap the block tbh, it has only just had a liner and it was only a few k old when that was fitted !

How much are long studs then, fitted ?

markk

iTrader: (2)

i think its a bit of 6 0f one and half a dozen of the other with 200 blocks, too many people build engines into them thinking theyve done the right thing with out the real knowledge of what they are doing.

a std 200 block on any near std engine will be ok until the head gasket goes big time ( as they do) then outof the few i have done 9/10 have cracked the bolt holes due to head gasket failure, the 205 block in a std engine would not do this, it would just be a gasket failure.

now a properly prepared 200 block is a differant matter, precaustions have to be taken, and you have to know what your doing with the block and why your doing it, before its a pukka prepped block.

JonnyBravo

So your saying a failed head gasket could causes them to crack around the bolt holes ?

Funny that as just before I lifted the head off my engine (for more internal work) A1 had just done the liner and HG on it due to a meltdown, bit of a pisser if the crack was over looked

markk

iTrader: (2)

headgasket failure does caulse most of the crackes in the blocks pal im afraid, gasket leaks allows water to run down the bolt threads after engine shut off usually, fills the holes below the bolt threads and the resultant heat expansion on start up causes the hydaulic effect under the bolts, forces them upwards thus cracking block and leaving a raised section on the block totally killing the headgasket. ive proved it many a time mate. one key tell tale is look at the bolt nearest to the the gasket failure - it will generally be dry and in worst cases look rusty. the rest will be oiled as normal

TimC

iTrader: (1)

The Diva mentioned at a the pub meet a few weeks back

PROMETHEUS

iTrader: (1)

Yes a "dog shit" batch were made in Turkey, but it was years ago. My mate at mountune told me to avoid them, as when they bored them, to put liners in, they went through the walls, suppose they are ok for a non liner engine. PS if a trader gives free advice on the internet why should he be charged, Is that ilegal internet TAX lol.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

he wasnt asked to pay to give advice just asked to remove his signature advertising his company if he didnt want to pay a trade fee simple as !

bbspolo

just 2 add my 2 pence! and a new question 2 this intresting thred !
Has any1 seen or know anything about the other blocks that are hardley ever mentioned!
Like the millington alloy block, then new cosworth alloy block or the other pinto blocks!

I know martin used 2 use a millington block in his old escort so anything from him would be great!

And while im thinking about it im sure millington made there own version of the yb head?? Any1 got any idears on any of these and or pics!

JonnyBravo

I thought Millington made a cam cover with diamonds on it like Martin also had, not sure about cylinder heads although I wouldn't doubt it lol

Possibly thinking that the Millington or Cosworth Alloy blocks are not the cheapest route around a cracked block though

bbspolo

no and i dont think i will ever run into the sort of problems some r having as mine is a baby 350bhp low lag! but this sort of thing and the high level problems that occore with the redeveloping of the yb wich the sorts of reyland, mad, and nms are doing is very intresting!

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

always get shot down when i mention that in my opinoin the 205 block is a top block in a 2wd,although i understand that in can not be long studded and it is as not as strong as the 200 block but that is down to the fact it did not need to be in a 2wd but as for the studded issue aint got a clue

JonnyBravo

Maybe you shoudl read about if you want to know the differences on the 200 and 205 block, its NOT just the extra webbing you mention.

I don't see Mark, Karl or Martin to name a few building big power engines from 205 blocks which does sort of tell me something

bbspolo

That maby they have learnt there lessons the hard way! lol
And yes i do use a 205 block with stardand head bolt (which i change every 5k) which is spot on has never let me down but mine is only 350bhp is is not going 2 go any higher! so y spend 500 quid more on somthing i dont need!
Personaly i think that martin and the other big tunners know there stuff and if they say they would only use a 205 up 2 350-400 hp at the most and then its 200 (or the 500 blocks if u win the lottory ) all the way that is good anothe for me!

would still like 2 know about the alloy blocks though ??

REYLAND NMS MAD

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

out of interest is the 200 block a cheaper version of the rs500 205 block?or they totally different?

Stuart.W

Me too

I assume from Martin having changed from a Millington ali block to a heightened (that took some dedication ) 200 block that the Millington might not have been considered strong enough to produce its intended power (800+hp?) reliably with a lower block height ??????

From memory the Millington block could be supplied 6mm? higher than a standard block and the US Cosworth ali block 10mm higher. Are these not considered high enough to reduce rod angles from longer stroke cranks running over 8K for mega power or are the blocks simply not strong enough compared to the cast iron 200?

AFAIK (please correct me if i'm wrong) no one has run an ali YB block over 700hp, so comparing an ali block against a cast iron 200 would be purely visually?

Money aside, wouldn't these lighter ali blocks be better to use or are they not strong enough for say 800hp, Mike / Martin or anyone else, what do you know PLEASE?

JonnyBravo

Quite sure I read somewhere that someone recently has a engine let go that was using the new Cosworth alloy block.

It was mentioned on here by someone iirc

It was big power though

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't touch the Cosworth alloy block for big power unless it was GIVEN to me .

If you look at the main caps, the engine was only ever designed for normally aspirated use, as they a wimpy alloy efforts. I can't see how anyone could ever think this would survive big power use, and I'm shocked that it is being sold as such.

Stuart.W

Hi Mike,

Whats the millington block use instead (4 bolt, steel or iron caps)?

Shame the main cap webs won't take an extra set of studs along side.
If stronger main caps wouldn't solve the problem or still leave the lower part of the block weak then a fully stressed billet sump/girdle should solve any issues in the lower part of the block, ideal if you wanted to make a dry sump pan for it at the same time

Apart from the main caps what about the rest of the engine?

I heard an ex-millington guy designed it and it was cast by Cosworth USA or are they stickered up Millington blocks?

bbspolo

think we need to get martins opinion on the millington blocks as he is the only person i have heard of useing one in a 500+ engine!

Mike if my numbers come up this weekend ill buy u one!

bbspolo

mechanic28 from what i rember the 205 rs500 block came first as a stronger block for racing (same design as a 200 block just tiny core plugs) and the 200 block came later as a production version of the 500 block same design just normal size core plugs 2 help (and make cheeper) the making of them!

I rember some 1 on here mentioning same figers about how stong the verious blocks are! there was loads of diffirence between the 205 and the 200 with the small core plug rs500 205 block just ahead of the 200! (not by much though)

This is why i imagen none of the big tunners sump out the 2k plus for a new 500 block on there demo cars when the difference is so small!

i do have pics of all the blocks somewere will try 2 dig them out!
But in the mean time if u want 2 see what i mean about small core plugs on a 500 block there is one on ebay at the moment! (2k )

By the way if any of what i have said is crap please some one (a tunner who knows what he is talking about not what u have heard form your mate )correct me please!