FWD Drag Record Set
28-06-2006, 08:33 AM
#161
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Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Dave, im making no assumptions, im basing it purely on the results.
The current spec car with the current spec driver wouldnt run the same 60ft with less grip.
:
Maybe he just didnt get a good lauch....
Oh, sorry, Im assuming here...
If you get a crap 60ft, it can only be wheelspin cant it!??
28-06-2006, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Dave that slip you spent a few hours looking for in a desperate attempt to prove me wrong proves uterly nothing of the sort im afraid.
You have also TOTALLY missed the point of what i was saying and only actually focussed on a tiny part of it out of context.
What i said was, that if andy's car had enough grip to be 4 tenths quicker to 60ft it would mean that he could dial more nitrous in sooner and hence run a higher terminal speed due to the extra grip allowing him to use more power, the car in that slip did NOT do that so it didnt see gains from doing that.
I did not EVER say that the same car with a tiny bit more grip and no difference in power to utilise it would run a higher terminal because i KNOW FOR A FACT that is not the case in most instances, cause ive experienced EXACTLY that myself first hand in drag racing when i won the nova shootout the year before last at the pod, i increased grip a little with different tyres and saw a decrease in 60ft but also a decrease in terminal speed because the extra grip then means you have more rolling resistance on the way up the drag strip which results in a LOWER terminal speed slightly, thats exactly what would i would expect to happen and have never said otherwise if based on not having any more power available to make use of the grip.
HOWEVER in the case of andy's car, the one i was talking about, he has a LOT more power availabe than he is using on the first half the strip so IN HIS CASE it would mean a higher terminal as he could now use that power sooner.
Again this is something i did on my nova, the run after my terminal dropped slightly and my 60ft dropped slightly i dialled in a little more nitrous sooner on and i saw an increase in my terminal from utilising the extra grip, which is the same as what would happen to andy.
All you are proving by trying to take half of what ive said out of context and then disprove just that bit after you've twisted it round is that you simply dont have enough understanding to appreciate the difference between more grip AND more power used earlier on, and just more grip.
Just accept that you are wrong, cause you dont half look a fool when you tell someone you have OWNED them but in reality all you did was prove you didnt understand all along!
I will spell it out for in EXPLICIT detail simplified enough for even you to grasp of what would happen on andys car with significantly grippier tyres:
Run on normal tyres
get time X and terminal Y
Run again with same nitrous settings on gripier typres
get time less than X and terminal less than Y
Alter the nitrous settings to take advantage of the new grip
get time less than X and terminal greater than Y
NOW do you understand?
You have also TOTALLY missed the point of what i was saying and only actually focussed on a tiny part of it out of context.
What i said was, that if andy's car had enough grip to be 4 tenths quicker to 60ft it would mean that he could dial more nitrous in sooner and hence run a higher terminal speed due to the extra grip allowing him to use more power, the car in that slip did NOT do that so it didnt see gains from doing that.
I did not EVER say that the same car with a tiny bit more grip and no difference in power to utilise it would run a higher terminal because i KNOW FOR A FACT that is not the case in most instances, cause ive experienced EXACTLY that myself first hand in drag racing when i won the nova shootout the year before last at the pod, i increased grip a little with different tyres and saw a decrease in 60ft but also a decrease in terminal speed because the extra grip then means you have more rolling resistance on the way up the drag strip which results in a LOWER terminal speed slightly, thats exactly what would i would expect to happen and have never said otherwise if based on not having any more power available to make use of the grip.
HOWEVER in the case of andy's car, the one i was talking about, he has a LOT more power availabe than he is using on the first half the strip so IN HIS CASE it would mean a higher terminal as he could now use that power sooner.
Again this is something i did on my nova, the run after my terminal dropped slightly and my 60ft dropped slightly i dialled in a little more nitrous sooner on and i saw an increase in my terminal from utilising the extra grip, which is the same as what would happen to andy.
All you are proving by trying to take half of what ive said out of context and then disprove just that bit after you've twisted it round is that you simply dont have enough understanding to appreciate the difference between more grip AND more power used earlier on, and just more grip.
Just accept that you are wrong, cause you dont half look a fool when you tell someone you have OWNED them but in reality all you did was prove you didnt understand all along!
I will spell it out for in EXPLICIT detail simplified enough for even you to grasp of what would happen on andys car with significantly grippier tyres:
Run on normal tyres
get time X and terminal Y
Run again with same nitrous settings on gripier typres
get time less than X and terminal less than Y
Alter the nitrous settings to take advantage of the new grip
get time less than X and terminal greater than Y
NOW do you understand?
How can you compare launches when you are saying you can increase the enigne power too??
How is that a fair comparison... Talk about bending the results to try and make it in your favour..
Its like me saying, 'I had a standard Renault 5 that did a 15 second quarter on road tyres, and then a 10 second run on slicks...'
'Wow, how the hell did it gain 5 seconds just on slicks?'
''cos it allowed me to turn on the other 8 turbos, the supercharger, at 80psi boost running nitro!'
28-06-2006, 08:43 AM
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Chip, enough of the long epic posts. The more letters you put on a page doesnt make it more convincing to everybody else...
You can wind up what you are trying to say in just a few words...
You can wind up what you are trying to say in just a few words...
28-06-2006, 08:44 AM
#164
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
How can you compare launches when you are saying you can increase the enigne power too??
How is that a fair comparison... Talk about bending the results to try and make it in your favour..
Its like me saying, 'I had a standard Renault 5 that did a 15 second quarter on road tyres, and then a 10 second run on slicks...'
'Wow, how the hell did it gain 5 seconds just on slicks?'
''cos it allowed me to turn on the other 8 turbos, the supercharger, at 80psi boost running nitro!'
Dave, im not talking about making a single BHP extra peak from the engine, merely being able to put the power down sooner in the run.
Andy runs nitrous, and cant do so in first gear, if he had that much extra grip then he COULD do so in first, and use it far more aggressively in 2nd,so he would be using more of the power he already has, it wouldnt change the peak output or involve fitting 8 turbos you muppet.
you REALLY dont understand the effects of grip in a FWD drag car in terms of how it allows your to lay the power down not just off the line but also once you are "hooked up" do you?
Why not just leave the disucssion to people who have some experience of it?
(although goes for mapping too and just about everythign else you talk about when its blatant to anyone with a bit of knowledge that you have never actually done any of the things you pretend to know about! )
28-06-2006, 08:50 AM
#165
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Chip, enough of the long epic posts. The more letters you put on a page doesnt make it more convincing to everybody else...
You can wind up what you are trying to say in just a few words...
You can wind up what you are trying to say in just a few words...
I could summarise it into:
Stop pretending you have experience of things that you havent.
If that suits you better?
28-06-2006, 08:51 AM
#166
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Originally Posted by Stavros
Remember a certain 2.8sec 60ft that suddenly ended in a 160mph terminal, twas mental.
28-06-2006, 11:49 AM
#171
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Dave, im making no assumptions, im basing it purely on the results.
The current spec car with the current spec driver wouldnt run the same 60ft with less grip.
:
Maybe he just didnt get a good lauch....
Oh, sorry, Im assuming here...
If you get a crap 60ft, it can only be wheelspin cant it!??
but have now read it all
in general,if a car can pick up ANY time on the 60ft then its worth more at the end,its usually not saving 1 second at the 60ft is a 1 second saving at the end,the end saving is more IME
and i remember the project x run,holy fuck! awesome, once it spooled it just flew down the quarter,first time i saw a 150mph terminal on a road car!
28-06-2006, 12:13 PM
#172
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28-06-2006, 12:37 PM
#173
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by big_wig_074
and i remember the project x run,holy fuck! awesome, once it spooled it just flew down the quarter,first time i saw a 150mph terminal on a road car!
The car still exists and may well come back bigger and badder than ever, it already is one of the fastest Skylines nobodys heard of, lol...
28-06-2006, 12:59 PM
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Corr, fuck me this thread has gone on for a long time.
DaveAVT stop comparing just two drag runs, there are far too many variables in drag racing to use just two runs to work anything out.
DaveAVT stop comparing just two drag runs, there are far too many variables in drag racing to use just two runs to work anything out.
28-06-2006, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by big_wig_074
in general,if a car can pick up ANY time on the 60ft then its worth more at the end,its usually not saving 1 second at the 60ft is a 1 second saving at the end,the end saving is more IME
:
:
The point is the car with slicks did a better time than the corsa without. No one can comment how good the Corsa would be on slicks because it hasnt run with them, for all we know it could do a 30 second pass, as it coasts over the line with a broken primary shaft through too much traction..
The point is the 5 has done a faster run, on slicks and not broken anything, so until the Corsa does so, there is no point 'speculating'.
Chips theory of the Corsa on slicks doing a 0.4 second quicker 60ft and could be nearly be maybe a 0.7 at the end of the track is actually very good, now I think of it, because he is actually saying that the 5 which did a 11.4 with a 'crap' 1.9 60ft, could also do the same (theres always room for improvement) and thus in theory could be a mid 10 second car.
Im sure the owner of the 5 will be very happy at your calculations. Hey, now I think of it, theres no point racing at all if we can all work it out on paper. It would be alot cheaper too...
Maybe the old saying, 'speculate to accumulate' is correct..
28-06-2006, 04:23 PM
#182
hence the bit that says IME (which means in my experience) and i didnt say everytime either. it tends to be the case,but then u can NEVER make an absolute statement as something may go wrong or break.
steve what i meant was a terminal of over 150, didnt realise it did 160 tho! fook,was sooooo long ago,dont remember the times but i remember seeing the person inside looking like theyd been catapulted into the back of the seat as the power came in,utterly astonishing power!
steve what i meant was a terminal of over 150, didnt realise it did 160 tho! fook,was sooooo long ago,dont remember the times but i remember seeing the person inside looking like theyd been catapulted into the back of the seat as the power came in,utterly astonishing power!
28-06-2006, 04:32 PM
#183
Dave, one would certainly hope so if he can sort out his shitty launches.
Currently all it proves is that big spec turbo'd engines are worth next to nothing if you cant launch them properly to use it and it shows why things like getting gearing right is important, so a shorter ratio box (if thats his issue like it seems) could easily see him into the 10s IMHO, which would be quite impressive for a little 5, even a non road legal trim one.
Currently all it proves is that big spec turbo'd engines are worth next to nothing if you cant launch them properly to use it and it shows why things like getting gearing right is important, so a shorter ratio box (if thats his issue like it seems) could easily see him into the 10s IMHO, which would be quite impressive for a little 5, even a non road legal trim one.
28-06-2006, 04:42 PM
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Not really, his gearing puts him at around 126mph max at 8000rpm in third, which is where he makes peak power and roughly crosses the line at...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
28-06-2006, 05:54 PM
#185
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Dave,
Did i read this wrong???
earlier in the thread, you sed it takes 220-240 bhp to get 11.4 in that R5,
But i'm sure you said before it had 300bhp..
Also i noticed some back tracking by someone
Did i read this wrong???
earlier in the thread, you sed it takes 220-240 bhp to get 11.4 in that R5,
But i'm sure you said before it had 300bhp..
Also i noticed some back tracking by someone
28-06-2006, 08:08 PM
#186
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well....
ive been reading this and having a good old laugh. its horses for courses lads. fwd cars will aways suffer with grip due to weight transfer, even with a fat b*stard like me in the front, i seriously struggle for grip, i have to launch with lower boost then up it when i get grip in 2nd, so im with chip when he says more grip off the line means you can apply more power sooner thus giving you a better overall time. i too drive a shitty french car, but its not a 5, its a 21 turbo. ive managed to get it down to 13.2 1/4 with 106 terminal. its fully road legal and on road tyres and not running silly boost. sure theres faster things out there, but theres a point you are all missing, dont compare different cars compare the same make and model. i know the 5 dave is on about is the quickest 5 around at the mo, my car is the quickest 21 turbo around at the mo, but i dont compare it to a cosworth, they are different animals. im always pleased to see people doing well with their cars, what ever car they are. so let the argument finish, and lets all have a group hug, lol.
cheers craig...... peace out
cheers craig...... peace out
28-06-2006, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fiesta cossie
Dave,
Did i read this wrong???
earlier in the thread, you sed it takes 220-240 bhp to get 11.4 in that R5,
But i'm sure you said before it had 300bhp..
Also i noticed some back tracking by someone
Did i read this wrong???
earlier in the thread, you sed it takes 220-240 bhp to get 11.4 in that R5,
But i'm sure you said before it had 300bhp..
Also i noticed some back tracking by someone
28-06-2006, 10:36 PM
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Re: well....
Originally Posted by craig21t
ive been reading this and having a good old laugh. its horses for courses lads. fwd cars will aways suffer with grip due to weight transfer, even with a fat b*stard like me in the front, i seriously struggle for grip, i have to launch with lower boost then up it when i get grip in 2nd, so im with chip when he says more grip off the line means you can apply more power sooner thus giving you a better overall time. i too drive a shitty french car, but its not a 5, its a 21 turbo. ive managed to get it down to 13.2 1/4 with 106 terminal. its fully road legal and on road tyres and not running silly boost. sure theres faster things out there, but theres a point you are all missing, dont compare different cars compare the same make and model. i know the 5 dave is on about is the quickest 5 around at the mo, my car is the quickest 21 turbo around at the mo, but i dont compare it to a cosworth, they are different animals. im always pleased to see people doing well with their cars, what ever car they are. so let the argument finish, and lets all have a group hug, lol.
cheers craig...... peace out
cheers craig...... peace out
What was your 60ft on your 13.2, and what tyres?
29-06-2006, 09:14 AM
#189
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I have ran a best of 12.18 @ 126.8 with a 2.13 60ft time (although it spins the tyres all the way to 75 mph!)
This run was done at Crail on street tyres, was driven there, raced and driven home!
I need to get my ass down to the Pod, to get into the 11's on just 15 psi on a GT28RS!
Cheers
Dave
P.S. And yes, I did beat the Supercharged Civic, in the semi's of the USSC!
This run was done at Crail on street tyres, was driven there, raced and driven home!
I need to get my ass down to the Pod, to get into the 11's on just 15 psi on a GT28RS!
Cheers
Dave
P.S. And yes, I did beat the Supercharged Civic, in the semi's of the USSC!
29-06-2006, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Sounds about right, i was remebering the figure 178 for some reason, but i could have been wrong.
29-06-2006, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Not really, his gearing puts him at around 126mph max at 8000rpm in third, which is where he makes peak power and roughly crosses the line at...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
29-06-2006, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by chip-3door
Cheers lee.
going to be interesting to see what happens at TOTB over a mile, im guessing he will be flat out before then?
going to be interesting to see what happens at TOTB over a mile, im guessing he will be flat out before then?
29-06-2006, 10:35 AM
#194
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Cheers lee.
going to be interesting to see what happens at TOTB over a mile, im guessing he will be flat out before then?
going to be interesting to see what happens at TOTB over a mile, im guessing he will be flat out before then?
29-06-2006, 06:45 PM
#195
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Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Not really, his gearing puts him at around 126mph max at 8000rpm in third, which is where he makes peak power and roughly crosses the line at...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
My Xr2tt, runs 980kg's as road trim, (spare, tools steario)
And once i removed parcel shelf, and everything in boot, = 920kg's
Both with out driver...
29-06-2006, 08:29 PM
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Re: well....
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Originally Posted by craig21t
ive been reading this and having a good old laugh. its horses for courses lads. fwd cars will aways suffer with grip due to weight transfer, even with a fat b*stard like me in the front, i seriously struggle for grip, i have to launch with lower boost then up it when i get grip in 2nd, so im with chip when he says more grip off the line means you can apply more power sooner thus giving you a better overall time. i too drive a shitty french car, but its not a 5, its a 21 turbo. ive managed to get it down to 13.2 1/4 with 106 terminal. its fully road legal and on road tyres and not running silly boost. sure theres faster things out there, but theres a point you are all missing, dont compare different cars compare the same make and model. i know the 5 dave is on about is the quickest 5 around at the mo, my car is the quickest 21 turbo around at the mo, but i dont compare it to a cosworth, they are different animals. im always pleased to see people doing well with their cars, what ever car they are. so let the argument finish, and lets all have a group hug, lol.
cheers craig...... peace out
cheers craig...... peace out
What was your 60ft on your 13.2, and what tyres?
but dont really care im just enjoying myself
29-06-2006, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Not really, his gearing puts him at around 126mph max at 8000rpm in third, which is where he makes peak power and roughly crosses the line at...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
Shwings and roundabouts...
What it needed is to strip the car, as its weighing it at nearly 900kgs due to his heavy compomotives, interior, bodykit etc...
But both cars can gain, the 11.4 could lose weight, but on the other hand the 11.5 did an 11.6 on its very run ever run on the strip at low boost (20) and a 'conservative' map.
29-06-2006, 09:31 PM
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Re: well....
Originally Posted by craig21t
hi dave my 60 ft was 2.192 sec, the tyres i was running where hankook ventus, got some toyo proxes on now, so hopefully things will improve.
but dont really care im just enjoying myself
Are you circa 1000kgs?
Good to know for comparison. My GTA should be down to 900kgs when its done, but with 275 rears for tarmac licking...
30-06-2006, 02:21 PM
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Re: well....
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
Originally Posted by craig21t
hi dave my 60 ft was 2.192 sec, the tyres i was running where hankook ventus, got some toyo proxes on now, so hopefully things will improve.
but dont really care im just enjoying myself
Are you circa 1000kgs?
Good to know for comparison. My GTA should be down to 900kgs when its done, but with 275 rears for tarmac licking...
