driving with closed loop control
13-06-2006, 11:31 PM
#3
likewise, im not sure if you are commenting or asking?
NO difference in how the car actually drives if its on a decent chip in both instances IMHO, you wont notice it while driving, but you will when you fill up with fuel, espeically against an off the shelf chip as opposed to a livemap.
NO difference in how the car actually drives if its on a decent chip in both instances IMHO, you wont notice it while driving, but you will when you fill up with fuel, espeically against an off the shelf chip as opposed to a livemap.
14-06-2006, 12:06 AM
#4
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Maybe a simple question then.
if my car drives and performs brilliantly on its current chip, but the only downside being the cruising and part throttle fueling... is it possible to still upgrade to using the closed loop lambda control.
ie: copy my own chips info and piggy back it onto the closed loop?
Stu, if you read this, maybe i should have asked you this while i was on the phone to you this morning, could be a perfect alternative to suit my car
if my car drives and performs brilliantly on its current chip, but the only downside being the cruising and part throttle fueling... is it possible to still upgrade to using the closed loop lambda control.
ie: copy my own chips info and piggy back it onto the closed loop?
Stu, if you read this, maybe i should have asked you this while i was on the phone to you this morning, could be a perfect alternative to suit my car
14-06-2006, 12:10 AM
#5
yes thats possible, although only stu would be able to say if its something he is happy to do.
should think he would sooner trust his own numbers even if you *think* it runs perfectly now he may see room for improvement
should think he would sooner trust his own numbers even if you *think* it runs perfectly now he may see room for improvement
14-06-2006, 08:06 AM
#6
Originally Posted by Kelv
if my car drives and performs brilliantly on its current chip, but the only downside being the cruising and part throttle fueling... is it possible to still upgrade to using the closed loop lambda control.
The fuelling needs to be within a target area for it to work properly, IE: If you disconnected the lambda sensor on one of my closed loop chips, i wouldnt expect it to be any richer than 0.95 at cruise on greys or larger, maybe 0.93 on 850cc's. If your base is worse than that, and most are FAR worse, ive seen em cruise at .80, then you are asking to much of teh correction algorythms and the best will not be attained.
14-06-2006, 01:57 PM
#7
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by the original
Hi mate
what are you saying?
are you asking ?
or telling us?
not trying to be funny, i don't understand...
hope you can explain
cheers
what are you saying?
are you asking ?
or telling us?
not trying to be funny, i don't understand...
hope you can explain
cheers
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14-06-2006, 02:54 PM
#9
All fine and dandy, great fuel consumption, assuming similar performance, but at what cost ??? 
Has anybody worked out how many miles you would have to drive to recoup the cost of:
new ECU
chip
mapping
sensors
etc etc ??
I would like the whole setup myself
but find it difficult to justify on a car that will do maybe 2000k mls per year ?
Has anybody worked out how many miles you would have to drive to recoup the cost of:
new ECU
chip
mapping
sensors
etc etc ??
I would like the whole setup myself
but find it difficult to justify on a car that will do maybe 2000k mls per year ?
14-06-2006, 03:05 PM
#10
Closed loop is NOT all about fuel economy. Do you know just how bad some greys chips run? Ive seen them so bad the "tuner" recomends you change the oil every 1000miles to stop it lunching the engine!
Its about making the engine run as well as it can run, and on a decent engine with good compression that is around teh chemically correct mixture of 14.7:1. Max economy is NOT there, its nearer 15.5:1, economy is NOT why we fit it. Better fuel economy is just a pleasant side effect of decent stoichiometry.
Why do you think every car in the world manufactured since 1992 are so equipped as STANDARD?
Do you know just how bad some greys chips run? Ive seen them so bad the "tuner" recomends you change the oil every 1000miles to stop it lunching the engine! Its about making the engine run as well as it can run, and on a decent engine with good compression that is around teh chemically correct mixture of 14.7:1. Max economy is NOT there, its nearer 15.5:1, economy is NOT why we fit it. Better fuel economy is just a pleasant side effect of decent stoichiometry.
Why do you think every car in the world manufactured since 1992 are so equipped as STANDARD?
14-06-2006, 03:16 PM
#11
ive had cossies without closed loop ,and i got the closed loop kit fitted to my current one ,i will never run a cossie without closed loop ever again, the car is so much smoother and nicer to drive around town, and does give good fuel economy in comprison to the cars i had without it.
by far the best thing i have ever done
by far the best thing i have ever done
14-06-2006, 03:18 PM
#12
Is it worth it on a car well setup on Greens then ? which should be much better at fuel delivery and spray pattern (atomisation) than Greys.
Or should this be considered essential for anything on or above Greys ? And nice to have but not so critical on the lesser tuned vehicles.
Or should this be considered essential for anything on or above Greys ? And nice to have but not so critical on the lesser tuned vehicles.
14-06-2006, 03:25 PM
#13
there is definatly an improvement in low speed driving on greens ,thats what i run at the mo , obviously the system would give more benifits on larger injectors, as they have fueling problems that greens may not have...
Cost wise if you were going for a stage 3 coversion, tbh it isnt much more expensive as long as you run a L8 ecu, which i was!
Cost wise if you were going for a stage 3 coversion, tbh it isnt much more expensive as long as you run a L8 ecu, which i was!
14-06-2006, 03:31 PM
#15
Originally Posted by st24cossie
Is it worth it on a car well setup on Greens then ? which should be much better at fuel delivery and spray pattern (atomisation) than Greys.
Or should this be considered essential for anything on or above Greys ? And nice to have but not so critical on the lesser tuned vehicles.
Or should this be considered essential for anything on or above Greys ? And nice to have but not so critical on the lesser tuned vehicles.
That said, ive seen plenty of greens chips running so much fuel its turning teh bumpers of the cars black with soot... very poor fuelling indeed.
So its hard to give a definitive answer to your question as the quality of software out there varies so bloody wildly!!
The best answer is to get a reliable honest tuner to asses your AFR and advise you accordingly.
14-06-2006, 06:15 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
That said, ive seen plenty of greens chips running so much fuel its turning the bumpers of the cars black with soot... very poor fuelling indeed.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
The best answer is to get a reliable honest tuner to asses your AFR and advise you accordingly.
I was thinking of going closed loop on greens but need to source an L8 so might not bother if it can just be setup well as it is.
14-06-2006, 07:51 PM
#18
Originally Posted by RSBen
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
That said, ive seen plenty of greens chips running so much fuel its turning the bumpers of the cars black with soot... very poor fuelling indeed.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
The best answer is to get a reliable honest tuner to asses your AFR and advise you accordingly.
I was thinking of going closed loop on greens but need to source an L8 so might not bother if it can just be setup well as it is.
Your best bet is to get a setup done though and have the fueling assesed as part of that job as until fuel pressure and trims have been done correctly you cant blame the software.
14-06-2006, 08:37 PM
#20
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OK then, what are people getting to a tank on closed loop setups?
Mine is on an MSD closed loop chip for 803's. T3/4 with 0.63 AR rear end, otherwise standard engine. I get about 250-260 miles to a tank of mixed driving (not striving for economy, but not full-on b-road assaults either).
On my old stage 1 setup I'd see 260-270. Best I ever had was 290 I think. I guess that gives a good comparison between closed loop fuelling and no fuel trim feedback
Neil.
Mine is on an MSD closed loop chip for 803's. T3/4 with 0.63 AR rear end, otherwise standard engine. I get about 250-260 miles to a tank of mixed driving (not striving for economy, but not full-on b-road assaults either).
On my old stage 1 setup I'd see 260-270. Best I ever had was 290 I think. I guess that gives a good comparison between closed loop fuelling and no fuel trim feedback
Neil.
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