Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

In that case, let me see what I can dig out later mate.

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Modern OE ECU's have SO many maps it's rediculous. Try finding the right map to change when you get a problem, 3hrs later in a strategy guide...

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

I didnt imagine i was gonna create a thread with much interest!

Some exciting and interesting reading here!

chaffe

a lot of bullshit too, mostly from me

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Good reading there, cheers

Would it be fair to say though, that a lot of the refinement the webber gives over aftermarket ecu's is tailored for the YB (or what ever engine it was originally developed for). An L6 on a YB will have had hundreds of hours worth of fettling... an L6 on a cvh will have had (probably) zero hours of ford/webber development.

So maybe the advantages of using webber on a cvh aren't so obvious as sticking to webber on a YB?

Rob,

Rick

It should be noted though, that the reason that OEM ECU's are so complex is mainly due to their diagnostic and emissiion control systems. Emission laws and tax brackets put huge pressure on manufactures to reduce CO2 for example.

Enthusiasts generally just want to go fast - that's much easier!

Rick

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Lol, well said that man.

svony

iTrader: (3)

Been following along with this thread for the past few days, as part of what's been discussed applies to my situation. I recently imported and Escort Cosworth to the states that's on an Omex 710, installed and tuned by PTS back in 2006. The car runs really well under load/boost but is horrible at low speeds, startup and almost everywhere else on the map. I've visited a few tuners here and they all have pretty much the same response; "we're not familiar with that engine management, but we can install something else that we use". The car is originally a ST car and still retains the standard engine harness, so I'm almost tempted to sell off the Omex and go with the Megasquirt since there is so much support here for them. The Omex is a very capable unit from what I can see but is useless if I can't have it tuned.

I long for the days when I could just plugin one of Stu's chips in my old 3dr running the Weber ECU, start on the first crank in any weather and drive better than new... just can't say enough about the factory map and there ability to adapt to any condition.

BTW anyone fancy taking a look at my current map for any obvious flaws???

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Why don't you get a wide band lambda and fix some of the issues your self?

It shouldn't be very difficult to get it starting and driving off boost properly, especially if it is fuelling well on boost.

Rob,

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

btw i take it you have a small turbo model?

Rob,

svony

iTrader: (3)

Rob, I do plan on messing with the map a bit once I install my Innovate Wideband monitor, but I'm still concerned about the ignition part of the map.

Wish I could look at another map of a similar spec car as template...

Yes, small turbo model with a T34, RS500 intercooler and 650cc injectors.

Wes

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Im sure someone will be able to give you some omex examples buddy, you might be best off learning the mapping software, and taking the car to a tuner and effectively hiring the dyno and tuner for an hour or so. The tuner can sit next to you with the det cans on and give you a few tips etc...

Or yes you could swap over to another management....

Or just fly the car back to the right side of the pond for a few weeks

Rob,

svony

iTrader: (3)

Ideally that would be the best scenario. I just need to learn the mangement well enough to make the changes while on the rollers, and like you said having the operator there making suggestions in regards to the necessary changes will be a big help.

Swapping managements wouldn't be so bad but I still would need to get it into the hands of a tuner who knows what they are doing. I'll just see how far and well I do with this first...

Actually, before the car was shipped I was trying to arrange to have it taken to a tuner there but the dealer was always so busy and there was also the issue of the 2 hour distance between them.

So who's got a mapthey can email me???

Wes
cosworth@optonline.net

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The 1994 Saab ecu in my nova is more advanced than the 2008 Aurtonic I replaced with it.

As per Rick's reply though, most of the extras on OEM ecus arent especially useful to the average enthusiast, they are just a hinderance to getting the job done as they require so much extra time just to perform a load of tasks that arent required for what we do with our cars.

My daily driver needs to work perfectly in every conceivable circumstance and to cope as well as is possible with the death of any sensor.
Im quite happy with a trackday car that has a lumpy idle at times, or doesnt give as good part throttle economy as it could or requires me to replace a broken sensor rather than drive around it on a limphome table.

Just cause an ECU can do more, doesnt make it better if you arent interested in the extra things that it does, and it can make it worse if its less easy for an enthusiast to understand and work with.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

I've use the Omex 600 before and it was a pretty nice ECU to learn and work with. It's pretty easy to get to grips with if you've already got a running car. Personally I'd get the AFR and det cans on it and have a play around myself rather than ditch it and fit new.

If you find a tuner who is used to AEM ECU's, the mapping interface is near 100% identical so they should be able to pick up the Omex no problem.

E-mail Omex with your vehicle details (eg crank pick up set up, MAP sensor spec, etc) and they will send you a base map to work off. It won't be right obviously but it will give you something to compare against. The interface and manual was about Ł20 direct of Omex about 4 years ago when I was playing with the 600.

svony

iTrader: (3)

Daz, I connected my Innovate wideband monitor tonite, started the car and let it warmup... AFR was in the low 12's initially, but just over 2 mins after startup it began leaning out until it stalled... what next???

chaffe

richen it up it seems that the whole map needs to be richer and then back off the cold start enrichment

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Can you get a data log with OMEX? Im not very experienced with mapping at all but im sure a couple of guys from this thread will tell you what to do.

But generally as Chaffe has said it sounds like it needs richening. The trouble is that if you have another problem (like an air leak) you will be masking the issue.

Generally my car is off cold enrichment (warm up) at 75ish deg c, don't start changing the map until after this point or your pissing in the wind (ultimately normal running temp is the best to start playing with).

Start off by getting it idling (is the idle speed control valve working?), after idle and low load cells are giving a healthy AFR move on to mapping in a bit of boost.

Remember you will have to revisit your warm up enrichment settings/curve.

My car had map sensor noise which was really really fucking things up, last night i randomly found the problem (a tiny air leak), but the car would give inconsistent idle fuelling (going from rich to lean) and it was impossible to fix by adjusting the VE table.

Dont run any boost until your happy it won't be stupidly lean. I don't know about YB's particularly but i would be aiming for 13-14:1 off boost afr's moving up towards a 13:1 on light boost and 12.5/12:1 on higher load cells.

It might also be worth taking out a few degree's of advance on the higher load cells at the moment.

Good luck

Rob,

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

A useful insight into mapping there, esp for a complete novice like me... It seems so bloody complicated!

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

IMO thats a little rich off boost and a little lean on boost Rob (without constant monitoring for Det), I would be aiming for 14.7-15.0 cruise and 11.8-12.0 on boost (low boost like 7psi or less then yeah 12.5-13.0 is ok).... Just IMO of course and much like yourself I have no direct experience with the YB either! lol

These are of course quite lose guidlines as without know EGT's as well as AFR's i'm just playing it on the safe side!

chaffe

Ill agree with that too, you can go as lean as 16:1 for fuel economy though

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah you can but it depends on the engine and what your EGT's are too.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Good stuff, better to be safe

At the moment im struggling to run mine lean (over 14:1) for idle and cruise. It loves 12.8:1 idle but i think this is due to some unsuitable injectors jizzing up the port walls rather than the back of the valves. I've only done 400 miles so far and im itching to start mapping in some boost .

Rob,

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Can you get a gauge that measures egt and afr a 2 in 1 so to speak?
Also if the exhaust is wrapped how would you read the egt's?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Im not sure if you can get a dual gauge, but you can get loggers that will log AFR's and EGT's (and many more, MAP, RPM etc).

You just have a boss on the down pipe (as close to the exhaust housing as possible) for an EGT probe much like a lambda boss, and you heat wrap around it. I've got some pics at home of a down pipe with lambda heat wrapped ill dig out to show you later Roger.

Rob,

svony

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I plan to richen it up, atleast to where it can idle in the 14's when warm. It seems that is the best place for a smooth idle. My old 3dr with an MSD stage 3 chip would hunt around at idle with anything leaner than that. It also cruised in the 15s (closed loop chip).

Rob, Yes the OMEX does datalog, mine is setup for rpm, throttle and coolant temp, I haven't looked into whatelse it can log. I thought about that last night as since it was the best the car has started and idled since I got it, but then it was pretty hot here yesterday. No air leaks that I can find, I even removed the dump valve.

Idle speed control valve works fine, the car wants to stall when it's disconnected...

As far as I can tell fuel under boost is not a problem but I will get a log off the wideband to confirm... a friend said he say a bit of blue flame out the tailpipe when I got on it.

Karlos, I agree with you, as much as I would like to run the numbers Rob quoted and knowing that I'm probably loosing a few BHP, I still like that little window of security with a richer mixture 11.8 especially with our fuels here.

BTW I'm running 650cc injectors, which I think may be a bit large for my spec.

I thought I saw a gauge out there a few years ago that monitor both but I could be wrong, funny you asked about the wrap I was thinking the same thing since my exhaust is also wrapped. Not sure what the answer is tho.

Goods stuff guys, we should have a DIY mapping forum...

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Here you go mate

Unfortunately you will need to unwrap and remove the exhaust and have a bung/boss welded in.


You should be able to take the out put from you Wideband controller into OMEX, you don't have to run closed loop but it means when you log the AFR will be shown.

Good things to log (im sure it can display them all):
RPM
MAP
Coolant temp
AFR
Advance
TP
MAT

There are other useful things to look at but the above should show you where your going wrong.

Get a friend to drive you around whilst you have a fiddle, once they have shut up about the 'stick shift and the funny side steering' you should be on to a winner.

c123s1turbo

iv been reading this type of thread for a while now as im hopfully looking to get my rs running cossie managment via jano at some piont in the future.

i wont be fitting any parts as im rubbish when it comes to auto wiring, i just like the of keeping the managment ford. im only going for a reliable 200bhp with thr option of maybe going more at some piont.

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Thats all i want really, around the 200bhp mark with maybe abit more lbsft...
I like the idea of mapping and playing with it all myself and being able to fine tune it to new mods etc... This is a very imformative thread - cheers all!

BRAM

iTrader: (1)

When we tried to map my bros cruise map to around 14.7 the manifold would start to glow red after about half an hour driving (no egt guage) so we richened it up abit to low 13s high 12s where it runs great but uses loads of fuel.

What else could we do to get it to be a bit more fuel friendly without the manifold glowing?

crazycage

whats your ignition like on cruise?
shouldnt be like that mate

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

yea, sounds too retarded mate. A late ignition even chucks loads more heat down the exhaust.

If your advance map looks okay, get a timing light on it to double check.

Rob,

Canada1

Glowing exhaust manifold is usually a result of too little ignition timing advance.

Other cause could be camshaft timing out alot. Did you use a degree wheel for camshaft installation?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I beat you to it Perry by a minute

Too much little ignition advance of too much cam advance.

Rob,

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Hi.

Do you have the calibration interface?

You need to check what multiplication factors are beig added to the base injection time. When it's fully warm there should be no correction factors influencing the base fueling (check the air temp correction curve and the coolant respectively).

If they are not infulencing the base injection time and it's leaning past 14.7, just add a bit to the live tracer on the table, wait a few seconds and adjust again. Don't make any adjustments when the cooling fans kick in as this affects the battery voltage compensation curve.

Bear in mind that you are only adjusting the idle load site and that the surrounding load sites will need adjust to similar figures. The fuel map should look quite smooth with no big dips and peaks in it.

When you get it to idle, take it for a drive and make sure you're in the 11.7:1 area when on boost. If not then you'll need to adjust that too.

Your AFR gauge isn't in the tail pipe is it? The readings will be a big vague at best at low engine speeds if they are. Ideally it needs to be in the down pipe somewhere.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

If this occurs, the idle screw is incorrectly adjusted. A Cossie should idle without the idle valve connected.

Disconnect the idle valve and set the idle to 850RPM by unwinding the idle screw a few turns. Reconnect the idle valve and it will probably hunt and mess around a little before settling down and idling smoothly again.

I also agree with Karl's AFR figures so stick with them as close as possible.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

Have you been drinking Rob?!

svony

iTrader: (3)

Hi Daz,

No calibration interface, I'm just reading the AFR directly off the monitor, I may tap into the TPS, RPM and MAP sensor and log AFR from the monitor then I can make adjustments to the map at different points all at once.

The Air Temp Fuel Trim table shows a -3.12% from 50* to 120* (max), Coolant is 0% from 80* to max, and the Start Fuel Coolant % is 100 from 70* to max.

Ok got ya, this is going to be interesting, love learning new stuff especially the technical things.

The wideband is mounted in the downpipe...

Yes I already tweeked the idle screw before reconnecting the idle valve, this was a common problem with the 2.3 turbo motors here.

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.

Wes

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Mine will not idle over 14.0 (well not at 12DBTD) but cruising between 14.7-15.0 I achieved by increasing the advance, the base map I gave you may be retarded compared to what I run now as it was only fairly recently that I played around with a leaner cruise and found that with more advance it got rid of any hesitation.
As everyone had said above it sounds like you are too retarded mate lol
What advance are you running for cruise? I'm between 35-40 degrees.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

I'd reduce your warm up enrichment correction so that it adding nothing after 70-75 degrees C personally. Everything else seems fine.

Have fun and don't break anything!