MS vs Cossie Management
03-06-2011, 03:44 PM
#41
Rob,
03-06-2011, 03:47 PM
#43
Rob DOHC, the V4 are all factory assembled not hand assembled like the previous ones, totally different thing, here is a pic I took of mine, you only need to glance at it TBH to see the world of difference from the V3!
I use tuner studio on it, I think that is what Mtech recomend too.
I use tuner studio on it, I think that is what Mtech recomend too.
Nice, much better than their previous efforts.
Rob,
03-06-2011, 03:54 PM
#45
To say they have upped their game would be a massive understatement, the V4 is on a par in terms of quality of construction with any other ecu on the market IMHO
My MS is a James Murray one, so certainly one of the better ones out there, but its nothing like the quality of construction of the V4 IMHO
My MS is a James Murray one, so certainly one of the better ones out there, but its nothing like the quality of construction of the V4 IMHO
03-06-2011, 04:03 PM
#47
Yes/Maybe. I've just met the criteria needed to become a mega squirt dealer, first batch of 30 should hit this side of the world in a few months. Initial plans are to make a direct OFAB etc plug and play replacement, then plug and play webber l6-p8 replacement. Also be sorting the standard stand alone mega squirt just with a decent connector and funky box.
When we get the stock i'll take some decent pics for you Chip. We were going to use the v357 board but its not really priced any better (if im assembling them), if they were prepared to sell them without components they would be as i have a pick and place machine.
But until my car is mapped and perfect i wouldn't feel confident selling them, for me the manufacture of them to a high standard isn't the problem.
Rob,
When we get the stock i'll take some decent pics for you Chip. We were going to use the v357 board but its not really priced any better (if im assembling them), if they were prepared to sell them without components they would be as i have a pick and place machine.
But until my car is mapped and perfect i wouldn't feel confident selling them, for me the manufacture of them to a high standard isn't the problem.
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 03-06-2011 at 04:05 PM.
03-06-2011, 04:09 PM
#48
Sounds good.
Probably a market for quite a few others on an exchange basis if you can be flexible about what you build them into.
Ie clio I know people often want aftermarket for, so if you can just plug one straight in without needing a new loom etc its a real bonus, likewise calibra turbo, thats just in the circles im familiar with but im sure there will be lots more.
Probably a market for quite a few others on an exchange basis if you can be flexible about what you build them into.
Ie clio I know people often want aftermarket for, so if you can just plug one straight in without needing a new loom etc its a real bonus, likewise calibra turbo, thats just in the circles im familiar with but im sure there will be lots more.
03-06-2011, 04:15 PM
#49
Sounds good.
Probably a market for quite a few others on an exchange basis if you can be flexible about what you build them into.
Ie clio I know people often want aftermarket for, so if you can just plug one straight in without needing a new loom etc its a real bonus, likewise calibra turbo, thats just in the circles im familiar with but im sure there will be lots more.
Probably a market for quite a few others on an exchange basis if you can be flexible about what you build them into.
Ie clio I know people often want aftermarket for, so if you can just plug one straight in without needing a new loom etc its a real bonus, likewise calibra turbo, thats just in the circles im familiar with but im sure there will be lots more.
When i get them your welcome to come have a play
and see what you think. Rob,
PS the first hurdle will be getting reliable pin outs for the stock ecu, and a list of changes made across the years, like the minor changes from l6/l8, im familiar with the ford stuff and know who to talk to (and buy beer for) to get the needed info, its just other manufacturers/forums i know nothing about etc.
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 03-06-2011 at 04:18 PM.
03-06-2011, 04:24 PM
#50
Advanced PassionFord User
rob does that mean i would just plug the ecu you are talking about selling straight into my wiring loom ?but still have all the feautures as if i had changed the loom ? wat sort of price would you be talking about ? as i would be very intrested
03-06-2011, 07:16 PM
#53
Not sure yet, only just got prices for parts through, and it depends on what options i build in.
At the moment i will include launch control and tacho out for free,
Obviously this isn't a for sale thread as im not a trader (i will be if the prices all work out), but if a few people are keen on this PM me and i'll change gear and knock a month off the launch (basic web site is being done at the mo).
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 03-06-2011 at 10:58 PM.
04-06-2011, 11:24 AM
#59
15K+ Super Poster!!
Chip,
I've said this before about the DB37 but I think you are thinking up a problem that doesn't exist. The ECU has to be kept in the cabin so should always be dry etc. I have never heard of a problem due to the port type. Yes, it isn't as good as it could be, but the risk of using one is offset by a hundred other things that are used in a modified car! AMP connectors are not infallible either.
Rick
I've said this before about the DB37 but I think you are thinking up a problem that doesn't exist. The ECU has to be kept in the cabin so should always be dry etc. I have never heard of a problem due to the port type. Yes, it isn't as good as it could be, but the risk of using one is offset by a hundred other things that are used in a modified car! AMP connectors are not infallible either.
Rick
05-06-2011, 08:25 PM
#62
Cheers for all the advice guys...!
Karlos, Rick and Rob Dohc esp! I may well take some of you up on your "mapping it for me" offers!
I will have a good look into MS and see if Rob can make me an ECU into an OFAC case etc!
Karlos, Rick and Rob Dohc esp! I may well take some of you up on your "mapping it for me" offers!
I will have a good look into MS and see if Rob can make me an ECU into an OFAC case etc!
05-06-2011, 09:11 PM
#63
Chip,
I've said this before about the DB37 but I think you are thinking up a problem that doesn't exist. The ECU has to be kept in the cabin so should always be dry etc. I have never heard of a problem due to the port type. Yes, it isn't as good as it could be, but the risk of using one is offset by a hundred other things that are used in a modified car! AMP connectors are not infallible either.
Rick
I've said this before about the DB37 but I think you are thinking up a problem that doesn't exist. The ECU has to be kept in the cabin so should always be dry etc. I have never heard of a problem due to the port type. Yes, it isn't as good as it could be, but the risk of using one is offset by a hundred other things that are used in a modified car! AMP connectors are not infallible either.
Rick
But its pony as fuck and the pins dont located with what IMHO is an acceptabley secure fitting.
Works yes, what I would choose for the job, no.
Bit like using cable ties to hold a radiator in etc, works perfectly well, but its still pikey.
06-06-2011, 12:39 AM
#64
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
06-06-2011, 07:02 AM
#65
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As said at the begining> If you want to have a play around and have half a brain then use MS/another diy ecu, If you just have loads of cash to burn and not a clue about tuning then get a cossy ecu and someone to map it.
06-06-2011, 08:41 AM
#66
Power figures have pretty much fuck all to do with how good an ecu is, getting the flat out fueling and ignition right is just about the simplest part of mapping, so to say that because an engine makes big power it prooves its using a good ecu is just nonsense IMHO
People taking their car to NMS dont generally have a choice what ECU they use from what I gather, so if you want Karl's in depth knowledge of the CVH then you have to put up with using his pet ECU at the same time, just like if you go to Sheady you end up on Autronic or Vipec as that's what he specialises in and if you go to SCS you end up on Pectel.
What most tuners will do is find an ecu they are confident in, and stick with it as they know it will give the customer the right results, that isnt damning for all other ecu's though, its just their preference, and they dont all have the same preference so that prooves that there is no single correct answer more than anything.
06-06-2011, 08:43 AM
#67
RP Labs L8 Ecu like I have on my 3 door, allows anyone who can map to map it themselves and has the advantages of L8 in terms of build quality and direct fitment and originality etc.
So for a YB, it makes a lot of sense, although the way the software is licensed is really annoying.
06-06-2011, 09:17 AM
#69
But big power?
Thats enough no? seen an l8 do that lol
Rob,
06-06-2011, 09:29 AM
#70
Advanced PassionFord User
An l8 will allow you to do it rob mate but getting a cossie engine that powerfull is a different story as im sure we all know how many 1000bhp yb engines do you know of? Lol
06-06-2011, 09:39 AM
#71
lol im only being difficult mate, as above its not really about power.
Don't get me wrong either, im not putting the webber stuff down in the slightest. Its an OEM ecu which would have thousands of hours and millions of pounds spend developing it, but it is still based on 80/90s tech. MS maybe hasn't had the money spent developing it, but it has certainly had thousands of man hours spent developing it and the code.
I just don't think MS should be knocked because of its price etc.
Rob,
Don't get me wrong either, im not putting the webber stuff down in the slightest. Its an OEM ecu which would have thousands of hours and millions of pounds spend developing it, but it is still based on 80/90s tech. MS maybe hasn't had the money spent developing it, but it has certainly had thousands of man hours spent developing it and the code.
I just don't think MS should be knocked because of its price etc.
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 06-06-2011 at 09:44 AM.
06-06-2011, 10:05 AM
#72
Not in the same league in what way?
Power figures have pretty much fuck all to do with how good an ecu is, getting the flat out fueling and ignition right is just about the simplest part of mapping, so to say that because an engine makes big power it prooves its using a good ecu is just nonsense IMHO
People taking their car to NMS dont generally have a choice what ECU they use from what I gather, so if you want Karl's in depth knowledge of the CVH then you have to put up with using his pet ECU at the same time, just like if you go to Sheady you end up on Autronic or Vipec as that's what he specialises in and if you go to SCS you end up on Pectel.
What most tuners will do is find an ecu they are confident in, and stick with it as they know it will give the customer the right results, that isnt damning for all other ecu's though, its just their preference, and they dont all have the same preference so that prooves that there is no single correct answer more than anything.
Power figures have pretty much fuck all to do with how good an ecu is, getting the flat out fueling and ignition right is just about the simplest part of mapping, so to say that because an engine makes big power it prooves its using a good ecu is just nonsense IMHO
People taking their car to NMS dont generally have a choice what ECU they use from what I gather, so if you want Karl's in depth knowledge of the CVH then you have to put up with using his pet ECU at the same time, just like if you go to Sheady you end up on Autronic or Vipec as that's what he specialises in and if you go to SCS you end up on Pectel.
What most tuners will do is find an ecu they are confident in, and stick with it as they know it will give the customer the right results, that isnt damning for all other ecu's though, its just their preference, and they dont all have the same preference so that prooves that there is no single correct answer more than anything.
06-06-2011, 10:20 AM
#73
I agree with most that has been posted but tunners don't like it not because they can't make money from it but the poor build quality of some of them. For every 10 good ones there is probably 10 bad ones so why would any tuner put there name to it
08-06-2011, 12:12 AM
#75
Norris Motorsport
Hi all,
Just to add to what has allready been said, we do actually fit and map just about every ecu out there having had good success with everything from Emerald, DTA, Omex, Motec to Pectel etc etc.
However despite all this, the Weber IAW still has the best refinement algorithms/mapping ability so we can always achieve OE or better results with the Weber IAW compared to all the aftermarket ecu's. That is not to say the Weber IAW is a better ecu, as technically it is inferior to nearly all modern ecu's, simply that for the functions we require it to perform, no aftermarket ecu can actually beat it for refinement! (And for me refinement is everything on a road car!)
We are happy to fit and map whatever ecu the customer so desires, its just that my own preference (pet ecu as chip calls it) is the weber IAW.
I'm not going to enter into a technical discussion over it as it is actually rather complex why the weber IAW is so good, and aftermarket ecu's generally inferior for refinement so it would be a pointless technical argument due to the lack of understanding with regards to Weber IAW capability.
(In laymens terms most people can simply look at the mapping software of their chosen aftermarket ecu and tick their top trump cards in excitement, whereas VERY few people have any understanding of how the Weber IAW achieves its refinement, simply because no software exists in the public domain to give any access or understanding of its abilities!)
Just to add to what has allready been said, we do actually fit and map just about every ecu out there having had good success with everything from Emerald, DTA, Omex, Motec to Pectel etc etc.
However despite all this, the Weber IAW still has the best refinement algorithms/mapping ability so we can always achieve OE or better results with the Weber IAW compared to all the aftermarket ecu's. That is not to say the Weber IAW is a better ecu, as technically it is inferior to nearly all modern ecu's, simply that for the functions we require it to perform, no aftermarket ecu can actually beat it for refinement! (And for me refinement is everything on a road car!)
We are happy to fit and map whatever ecu the customer so desires, its just that my own preference (pet ecu as chip calls it) is the weber IAW.
I'm not going to enter into a technical discussion over it as it is actually rather complex why the weber IAW is so good, and aftermarket ecu's generally inferior for refinement so it would be a pointless technical argument due to the lack of understanding with regards to Weber IAW capability.
(In laymens terms most people can simply look at the mapping software of their chosen aftermarket ecu and tick their top trump cards in excitement, whereas VERY few people have any understanding of how the Weber IAW achieves its refinement, simply because no software exists in the public domain to give any access or understanding of its abilities!)
08-06-2011, 06:20 AM
#76
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all about preferances i suppose, one thing that can be said; If you have no experince of mapping ANY ecu then you cant possibly comment on this subject!
08-06-2011, 07:57 AM
#77
Hi all,
Just to add to what has allready been said, we do actually fit and map just about every ecu out there having had good success with everything from Emerald, DTA, Omex, Motec to Pectel etc etc.
However despite all this, the Weber IAW still has the best refinement algorithms/mapping ability so we can always achieve OE or better results with the Weber IAW compared to all the aftermarket ecu's. That is not to say the Weber IAW is a better ecu, as technically it is inferior to nearly all modern ecu's, simply that for the functions we require it to perform, no aftermarket ecu can actually beat it for refinement! (And for me refinement is everything on a road car!)
We are happy to fit and map whatever ecu the customer so desires, its just that my own preference (pet ecu as chip calls it) is the weber IAW.
I'm not going to enter into a technical discussion over it as it is actually rather complex why the weber IAW is so good, and aftermarket ecu's generally inferior for refinement so it would be a pointless technical argument due to the lack of understanding with regards to Weber IAW capability.
(In laymens terms most people can simply look at the mapping software of their chosen aftermarket ecu and tick their top trump cards in excitement, whereas VERY few people have any understanding of how the Weber IAW achieves its refinement, simply because no software exists in the public domain to give any access or understanding of its abilities!)
Just to add to what has allready been said, we do actually fit and map just about every ecu out there having had good success with everything from Emerald, DTA, Omex, Motec to Pectel etc etc.
However despite all this, the Weber IAW still has the best refinement algorithms/mapping ability so we can always achieve OE or better results with the Weber IAW compared to all the aftermarket ecu's. That is not to say the Weber IAW is a better ecu, as technically it is inferior to nearly all modern ecu's, simply that for the functions we require it to perform, no aftermarket ecu can actually beat it for refinement! (And for me refinement is everything on a road car!)
We are happy to fit and map whatever ecu the customer so desires, its just that my own preference (pet ecu as chip calls it) is the weber IAW.
I'm not going to enter into a technical discussion over it as it is actually rather complex why the weber IAW is so good, and aftermarket ecu's generally inferior for refinement so it would be a pointless technical argument due to the lack of understanding with regards to Weber IAW capability.
(In laymens terms most people can simply look at the mapping software of their chosen aftermarket ecu and tick their top trump cards in excitement, whereas VERY few people have any understanding of how the Weber IAW achieves its refinement, simply because no software exists in the public domain to give any access or understanding of its abilities!)
08-06-2011, 08:01 AM
#78
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I belive you mate, of course modern being the word here! But for something to burn about at the weekends and rip up the road now and then you dont need anything too fancy in my experience (some people still think carbs are acceptable!)
08-06-2011, 08:06 AM
#79
Actually, I suppose I shouldnt have said Modern really as theer are plenty from the 90s that make all aftermarket stuff look really basic. I will try and find an example if anyones interested.
I totally agree mate, and MS works very well indeed providing its assembled, mapped and installed well.
But for something to burn about at the weekends and rip up the road now and then you dont need anything too fancy in my experience (some people still think carbs are acceptable!)
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 08-06-2011 at 08:07 AM.
08-06-2011, 08:08 AM
#80
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Actually, I suppose I shouldnt have said Modern really as theer are plenty from the 90s that make all aftermarket stuff look really basic. I will try and find an example if anyones interested.
I totally agree mate, and MS works very well indeed providing its assembled, mapped and installed well.
I totally agree mate, and MS works very well indeed providing its assembled, mapped and installed well.