Canada1

Hello Rob,

Ford in Canada started putting roller lifters in all CVH engines late in 1988. In the UK the Sierra 1.8 cvh had roller lifters as well - however that engine had very small intake ports
and tiny valves. The standard low performance CVH engines in Canada had the same small port small valve head too. In Canada we had the 1.9 HO (High Output) engine option.
This engine (1988+) had roller lifters and a camshaft with more lift and much more duration
that the standard roller lifter camshaft. It is very interesting that the 1.9 HO roller cam has
nearly identical opening and closing valve timing as the Newman turbo cam.

Ford 1.9 HO cam is 276 deg intake/ 276 degree exhaust 0.440" lift(int and exh) 115 deg lobe center.

The benefit here is roller lifters with a decent camshaft profile. The standard 1.9 HO was 110 hp and 120 lb. ft. torque. Not too bad for a normally aspirated model with poor flowing intake manifold and small diameter exhaust system.

The top of the lifter bores in the heads are machined flat, and have a small steel retaining plete that locates the flat sides on the lifter. (you can see the flat sides at the top of the lifter in the picture.)

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

That is interesting! so the roller acts on the cam lobe, i have seen mini (a series) engines with roller tiped rockers acting on push rods but never a roller acting on the cam lobe.

In your opinion would this have been done in the interests of cam wear? and do you have any idea if the roller lifter will fit in a UK head with similar machining? Does the cam lobe look the same as a uk lobe?

Thanks again

Rob,

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

From my understading roller lifters greatly reduce wear, and there is also a reduction in pumping losses.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

A quick thought, i think the uk heads probably have slightly off centre lifters (to the lobe) to promote lifter spin and therefore equal wear across the lifter (i think! could be wrong), so the roller lifters you have would have to be of larger diameter than UK lifter allowing the follower bore (in the head) to be offset bored? meaning the roller tip would sit in the centre of the cam lobe?

Hope that makes sense???? Or have i just over complicated things.... and the machining is only to give a method to 'lock' the lifter into place and stop it from rotating.

Rob,

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Thats what i was hoping for, i know thats one of the reasons they are used in the a series, i hadn't thought about the pumping losses Karlos! I think i may have to get the head machined to allow fitting of these..... my new kent cam might even last more than 10 miles?

Rob,

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Instead of me talking gibberish canada 1, if i take some measurements of my standard lifters, do you think you could do the same? that would be really helpful, no worries if you don't have one to hand.

Rob,

Joshy

2 points,

1. as far as i know, you were right when you said the lifter is angled over in uk heads so machining would be required to fit roller lifters, also there's tonnes of roller lifters available for american V8 engines so there is surely a way of fitting them.

2. in my book "How to build, modify & power tune CYLINDER HEADS" it says that on turbocharged engines it is best to leave the exhaust ports rough like the inlets, as this promotes a build up of carbon around the port (only very thin mind) that acts as a thermal coating like a ceramic coating keeping the heat in and promoting a faster spool up of any turbo.

i'll scan some pics of the book as there's a section on porting a CVH, i'll make em high res so you can read em on here.

JOSH

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Good man Josh,

Depending on my budget i may get the inlet and exhaust ports ceramic coated, along with the inside of the cross over pipe, the turbo manifold and the exhaust housing. Got to do some reading first to see how much of a difference it makes in reality otherwise i could just be pissing money at the thing for no point.

Good point on the availability of roller lifters for v8s too, from what i know you have to be fairly specific when choosing them though, as the rate they are able to pump at is quite crucial and dependant on cam profile. From what i have heard you can get into a situation (normally with lairly cam profiles) where the lifter cannot fill with fluid fast enough, meaning on the next cam rotation the lobe smashes a semi extended/filled lifter.... part of the reason high rpm engines with rude cams use solid lifters.

Cheers

Rob,

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

PS your pretty close to me mate, im in Sutton, nearish Kingston

Joshy

cool, i'll have a flick through and see if there's anything else relevent. good book though, like 8 quid of amazon

Joshy

Canada1

Hi Rob,

I have measured the lifter - 0.874" diameter.
Same as standard flat lifter.
The roller camshaft has lobes with no taper (will not work with flat lifter).
The roller camshaft also has the lobes positioned in the center of the lifter bores.
The lifter position in the heads are the same.

Cheers

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Brilliant, thanks once again. i hadn't considered the cam lobe spacing to be different rather than the lifter bore spacing, but i guess it makes more sense!!

So perhaps the answer is the canadian HO cam shaft with matching roller tipped lifters in a lightly machined rs turbo head?

Any ideas on how similar cam lift is? If every thing looks as though it will fit etc, this may provide an answer for the terrible cam and lifter wear we get with after market cam kits in the UK, a stock OEM cam shaft (properly surface hardened, unlike piper or kent) and roller lifters. Why haven't more people done this?

Rob,

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

It does sound like a good plan! What has to be done to the head for it to work exactly?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

So far, if the HO cam fits, i believe machining of the top of the lifter bore is all that needs doing, machining allows for a lifter rotation locking mech to be fitted...... im pretty sure thats all that needs doing!

If the cam doesn't fit it could in theory still be done, but would require larger roller lifters from another engine, the lifter bores enlarging but offset from their centres (to line the lifter and cam lobe up) and a custom cam ground by newmans without tapered lobes....... Unless newman can make up different blanks at reasonable prices.

I think thats right, i guess i will wait for canada1 to correct my mistakes (thanks in advance!)

I guess the plate that locks the camshaft in position up the front of the head could be changed to move the cam slightly??? i will look at the weekend.

Rob,

Joshy

all sounds good to me if you need a hand with anything just give us a shout

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

sierra's over here have beeen using roller followers without issues, however there would be a lot of work involved in either getting a custom cam made to line up with the centre of the follower guides or machining th ehead to get them in the right palce, let alone lubricating properly.
it may be better to try and open out a 1.8cvh sierra head and seeing if that could be used to get the power out and better cam life/reduced noise etc.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Forgot to say thank you for posting this up, interesting that they show you where the gains come from. Any more in the book about the cvh? if there is i will buy it.

And hi XR2wishy, yes i agree a custom cam would be a pain in the arse! mainly because you would need a custom blank made as well, expensive!

That leaves us with a few options, the easiest being to use the canadian HO cam. I have a friend who has just moved to canada so will ask him to get down to fords when he can and check out prices for a cam kit.

I don't think the 1.8 sierra head will allow the ports to be opened up enough..... and i seem to remember there being some other issues with this head??? Canada1 seems to be using this type of lifter/cam setup in his modified rs turbo head so i assume lubrication is fine. The canadian HO cam may be a cheap and reliable upgrade! lets see if i can get a few to play with.

Also can any one confirm a rumour for me? That the mfi inlet manifold flows better than an efi manifold..... i have both at home and was having a good look at the standard mfi injector spacer, and can't see too much of a reason not to get it machined to accept efi injectors... it was only a very quick look mind. I would like the keep the mfi manifold if there are enough benefits as it looks nice and standard.

Rob,

Canada1

The 1.9 HO roller cam (and all 1.9 cams) have the same camshaft journal sizes front to rear. The UK head would have to have the cam journals in the head all machined the same size. The 1.9 camshaft can be removed from the front or rear of the engine.

I think the most cost effective method to run a roller cam is to get a 1.9 HO head complete - just make sure it is late 1988 to 1990.

Regarding UK cam wear:

We have not had the same camshaft wear issues (on flat lifters) that you in the UK have.
Take a look at the insert that allows drip oiling to the camshaft. Our heads have large oiling holes 0.25" diameter. The UK heads I have seen have inserts with a tiny drip oiling hole.
Has anyone drilled these out for better camshaft lobe oiling? This is such an easy modification I do not know why it has not been done - or has it?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Sorry Canada1 i don't know your name, i keep calling you Canada1 and it feels weird!

Sorry i must be stupid or blind. which insert are you referring to?

I guess a further alternative, as i doubt i will be able to find a suitable head (unless a 1.8 sierra cvh head is usable) could be to space the camshaft back slightly (i will have to look at how appropriate this is at the weekend) and to get the cam reprofiled to remove the taper. I don't think the cam lobes are drastically off centre, the cam could take being moved slightly and the pulley spacing in the opposite direction......

Rob,

Canada1

Hi Rob,

Name is Perry.

You definitely cannot use a cast iron camshaft with roller lifters - even with the lobe reprofiled.
The cast cam is not hard enough for use with roller lifters. The roller cam profiles are special steel cores which are also hardened. I have attached a picture of my 1.9 HO roller cam. It is machined from a steel blank. The factory for roller cams had special hardened lobes pressed onto a shaft - it was cheaper to manufacture than machining a steel cam.
Mine is an aftermarket cam for the 1.9 HO.

Canada1

Hi Rob,

Take a look at the cam lobe oiling hole on your UK cvh head. These are the holes beside the rocker arm stud threaded hole. The UK heads have a small brass insert where the oiling hole is - the north american one just has a large oil feed (drain back) hole. Look at my picture and see the hole and compare - I think you will know what I am talking about.

Perry

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Those holes are huge compared to ours!!
Wonder how much difference it would make to cam wear?

Joshy

1, i dont think you could space the cam anyway as the lifters are opposed on each cylinder, so you would be moving the lobe towards one, but away from the other.

2. canada 1, what kind of aftermarket support is there in canada for this head conserning camshaft, solid lifter's???

3. my uncle lives state-side so i might be able to get him to bring me over a head with him this summer, so i ask, what would be the best head?
---1.8 HO?
---any others?

4. thats all the bits about the CVH in my book, but the rest is usfull stuff about general porting and it has other stuff about inlet/exhaust matching, ignition, modding chamber's, and is a good all round read, so i would recomend it.

5. those oil holes should be good, but i imagin there was a reason why ford didnt put them in, they wouldent leave them like that if they knew it would cure there camshaft lobe wear problem's???

with rollers there shouldent be a problem with wear anyway. so what reason do they have for being there in the canadian head's? also what role does the brass inserts have in our heads????

Canada1

Spacing the cam would not solve anything.

As I mentioned getting a cylinder head complete with cam and lifters is probably the best solution for one wanting roller lifters and the hotter camshaft grind - only in the 1.9 HO
(late 1988 to 1990 1.9 HO only) The other roller lifter heads were identical to the Sierra 1.8 very poor head and very short duration camshaft as well.

I have no idea why Ford UK put the oil feed restrictors to the cam lobes - seems silly as there was a cam wear issue. There was no cam wear issue here. That oiling hole is just a drain back hole, so putting a larger hole will increase oiling to the cam lobe - exactly what you want!

Schrick camshafts out of Germany have oiling holes in the cvh camshaft lobe itself. This would also greatly reduce cam wear.

Why not open up the oil feed holes?
Certainly wouldn't hurt anything.
I remember adding oiling spray bars to a Datsun L20B race engine - to get camshafts to last longer. Ford Pinto race angines also have added spray bars to get oil on the cam lobes.
Porsche 911's have cam lobe spray bars too.
What I am saying is there is no such thing as too much oil - and certainly not in the cvh case.

muz

Pics as Promised. Vulcan "Stage 3 head"

81SM6090 BRA *EDIT*

Inlet Side



36mm Ports



Throats



Bronze valve guides



43mm inlet valves





Exhaust side
*EDIT*



37mm ports






Throats

Joshy

thanks for the pics

dont look like any machining on the cross-hatch..

muz

Your right actually. Just had a good look and the fronts have been machined for some reason, can't really see in the pics, but I don't think it was to remove cross hatching as the large area on the back isn't cross hatched? Although the smaller indents are and it is cross hatched on the inside of the head where the rockers are? Are they all like this? It does however have the early casting number, so is it a thick wall head?

taz1787

iTrader: (8)

muz this is a cross hatch





yours is just a pre 86 casting mate same as most of the heads shown and same as mine and not a thick walled one

Chris69

with regards to our poor cam life and the roller lifter being a good solution based on its use on the canadian engine.
I wonder how stiff the springs are on the n/a model like the 1.9 HO you are mentioning?
just wondering as i know the rst runs very stiff springs and this is also a big factor contributing to the lifter/cam wear issue.
not sure if the roller bearing would be as effective with higher cylinder pressures is wot i'm thinking.

Joshy

i would have thought that the rollers would let you use higher spring pressures before serious wear occur's.

but higher spring pressure's result in the rocker stud's pulling out of the head casting,
so i think that to really see the most benifit from these rollers, you would have to invest in lightweight valvetrain components and the like.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Right,

Started today,

Got my head machined, faced, 3 angle seats and cut back inlet valves. Started porting on the exhaust side, practice for the all important inlet tomorrow. Tedious doesn't cut it, if you aren't a patient person, TAKE IT TO A PRO,

Im not so much reshaping my ports (inlets anyway), just tidying around the back of the valves, removing all casting marks and matching manifolds to the ports etc.

Here are todays pics:





The above pics show my 3 angle seats and the valve guide which i cut down, it also shows cleaned up but very scummy exhaust posts.

Next is the gasket matching





Ported and rough sanded, still more finishing to go but not too far off,





And a quick look at tomorrows task any hints for the inlet????



Think i may have widened the ports (exhaust) a little too much, but i haven't removed much around the back of the valve (just tidyed) and the port volume hasn't been increased too much. Just nice and smooth on the top (which is a high flow area)....

More pics to come.

Cheers

Rob,

martinmilne

just a question you say earlier in the thread that not many efi heads are ported and polished wy is this ?

juffer

Good start rob and looks really good. Be good to see the end result.

admanrs

I've got two heads at home one of which has 45mm inlet valves the other has just 43mm inlet valves. If people are still interested? I can get pictures of these nearer christmas.

Adam

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Yea that would be great mate, always handy for people to have reference photos, although it doesn't tell them how exactly to do it, it definitely gives a good idea of what not to remove etc,

Not sure really, i guess the majority of rs turbos were mfi and people tend to stick with their original head, also after spending many an hour now staring blankly at both my heads IMO the efi head is hampered having the injector right at the opening of the port, the cross sectional area was greatly reduced by doing this, but it shouldn't really be too bad,

Done a 3/4 inlets another on Tuesday, and that should be the rough porting done, onto a quick 40 grit clean up then properly finish them.

Its taken roughly an hour per port i would imagine to get a good finish, interestingly enough its a lot easier to improve the exhaust port.... however the casting match between valve seat and head was terrible on my inlet, i cannot recommend carbide cutters enough.

Should have more pics on Tuesday,

Rob,

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Cheers mate, im looking forward to it as well lol, my set up will more or less be the same as the last time the car was dyno'd standard cam, same turbo, but with lower CR and efi.... so it will be interesting what power it makes at the same boost.

Rob,

juffer

Any more progress on this rob?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Funnily enough its pretty much done, photos are being uploaded to photo bucket as i type.

It looks okay, still got to do a final clean up then degrease, jetwash and blow it through then i can lap the valves in and rebuild the rest of it.

If i were to do it again, i would use bronze exhaust guides and not cut them back, cast iron guides are more than okay for the inlet as it doesn't see the same temps + apparently the iron guides wear better too.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Inlet port, was polished then re finished in 80 grit to avoid fuel wetting the ports. Will try and get better photos when building the head back up, was getting dark and my camera isn't the too clever in the focusing department





Exhaust ports, all the casting marks were removed, the 'roof' was raised to give a less torturous gas path (like the example heads on page 1), the port was then semi polished, couldn't really be arsed to mirror polish it, see what i feel like tomorrow lol





Bit of a bad photo, show the 3angle seat nicely though.



Combustion chambers semi polished, again if i have loads of spare time i will properly mirror them.



Cheers all, still a few last finishing bits to do port wise but not too shabby i don't think, not as good as a professional head by any accounts but loads better than it was IMO... i hope.

Rob,