Canada1

I have found very little information regarding actual flow test results - before and after head porting. Flow testing in Canada is usually done at 28" instead of 10", but the conversion can easily be made.
I am having 43mm intake valves and 37mm exhaust installed.
I would like to see what flows are typical for a 1.6 cvh head.
Air flows at 2mm ,4mm , 6mm, 8mm, 10mm valve lifts would be wonderful.
I am using a hydraulic roller lifter camshaft setup, dual valve springs, and
havent decided on compression ratio yet - probably 8:1
Turbo is a Garrett T3, .48 turbine housing, 55 trim compressor.

I sure hope cylinder head flow test data is available.

Cheers

Perry

Canada1

Anyone?

I can't believe flow tests are done without results being supplied?
Has anyone had CVH heads ported and flowed?

Hopefully someone can be of help.
I would like to know what flows are typical, and what to expect.

Cheers,

Perry

AustenW

http://www.cncheads.co.uk/ford_cvh.html

Canada1

Thanks Austen,

I had found that flow test before, and view it with some disbelief.
I do not know what flow bench calibration was performed by CNC Heads,
and they flow the head with a 100mm bore adapter - I know of no CVH that has
a bore size of 100mm. This would certainly inflate any head flow data.
I guess "bigger is better" as far as published head flow goes.

Guy Croft has done some flow work on a CVH head, and found the unported
stock port to flow 83 cfm, well below CNC testing results of 95.5 cfm.
See http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1377

My unported flow test here agrees with the Guy Croft measurement.
My flow tests have been done on a calibrated SuperFlow 600, and a SuperFlow 110
to compare.

Does anyone have their own tests and not published testing?

Cheers

AustenW

Speak to Ian Howell at Area 6

http://www.area-six.co.uk/

Mort

surely the pressure is more important than the bore size - when gas flowing you are measurng the pressure drop through the head. CNCHeads use 10" pressure.

For what its worth - I know the guys at CNCHeads - totally straight. Those graph scans come straight off the Port Flow Analyzer software - no inflation of figures.

Canada1

I agree that pressure makes a large diference when flowing heads, that is why 10" or 28" is specified when flow data is given.
However, a large % change will be seen when using a large bore size adapter.
What is the point of knowing the airflow the cylinder head flows into a 4" bore adapter,
when the engine bore size is 3.13"?
The head porter knows that a large bore adapter will show a larger head flow number.
I will do some testing and post the results of a large bore size adapter vs. standard bore size.
The head porter is not lying about the results - just making sure the highest flow numbers
are seen. That is what usually sells head work.

Rick

I'd be interested to see your results. CNC is just round the corner from me, but i'm not yet convinced. It's one think being able to replicte a head via CNC but another to get the head working well in the first place. Also, how useful are flow figures in a turbo's car? The air movement under turbulance and pressure is likely to be significantly different to that on a bench.

Canada1

I will post the flow figures - both before and after port reshaping.
Increasing port flow has a dramatic effect especially for a pressurized
application. Sure one can just increase the boost level, but this results in high
ACT's and higher octane fuel required. One can always reduce ignition timing at high boost,
but this just reduces power, and increases exhaust temperatures to dangerous levels.
The sure way to a powerful efficient engine is head flow. Great flowing cylinder heads
make for high output - even at lower boost pressures.
20 lbs boost to make 200 HP is evidence of a very poor flowing cylinder head.

MADHEAD

is any one still interested in real head development on cvh turbos and zeteks

AustenW

its been done to death really hasn't it

MADHEAD

if i thought like that ten years ago a lot of people would not be were they are now ,
there is always new methods to make forward steps you just have to be a bit mad to think of new ideas and never give up trying

AustenW

Edited

CVH is very oldschool, i'm sure there are plenty of people who have done hours of development with them

Canada1

I think we all wish we had your pocketbook Austen W.
I didnt make any backhanded comments about your project.

Cheers

Turbocabbie

i am but know nothing about it

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

I think new idea's are always welcome! Thats half the fun trying them out!

MADHEAD

hi austen
think of it like this the cvh engine has lots of interesting angles
its cheep and the layout is very much like the big power hemi
v8 drag motors used today in top fuel classes so wy do they
use this format mmm maybe becouse it makes good power
i am pritty shure a two liter cvh on good fuel whith the right
mods would make over 500 bhp and very good torque.
modern 4 valve motors are not so chalenging.

AustenW

Very interesting Jim

So why hasn't anyone achieved it yet? (that i am aware off)

Have you got any graphs you can post up of what you have achieved to date please

MADHEAD

yes well austen maybe thats because you are not really aware of
that much especially when it comes to cylinder head development
although it seems you profess otherwise mmm.
please try not to feel threatened by the fact i have contacted
you.

AustenW

I know nothing about cylinder head flow or development thats why I get other people to do it for me namely you in the past when you was in the UK.

Lets back up your statement with some facts please

Internet talk is cheap, have you any proof to back up your claims??

No disrespect Jim, your a nice bloke

Lets see some development results

Canada1

Hi all,

I was not trying to start any forum feuds.
There has been very little (if any) development work on the Ford CVH
engine here in Canada (or North America). I love the idea of developing something that
is common, and quite cheap. The 1987 escort rst is a great looking car. There are none
around these parts. I am attempting to take a 2 door 1987 escort, and make an RS clone.
Sure there are better, more modern engine designs. The new Duratec is miles ahead of any Zetec ever built. But, the Escort did not come with a Duratec, and I would like the factory appearance under the bonnet.

Developing a powerful, efficient 1.9 CVH turbo is what I am attempting to accomplish.
Engine development starts with the cylinder head. People mention stage 1 through stage 3,
without much information. Cylinder head modifications are all about air flow (as we cannot do much about the combustion chamber), and port cross sectional area.

There has not been much information provided by anyone (other than CNC Heads) about
CVH head modifications and the results. IT has been mentioned that CVH head modifications
and flow testing has been flogged to death - I havent found much information anywhere.
How can one select a turbocharger, camshaft, throttlebody size, etc. without knowing
cyclinder head flow? The flow capacity will tell one what rpm range the cylinder head is capable of, thus camshaft and turbo selection is simplified. This should not be a trial and error approach - as that can be expensive.

pa_sjo

What you will find is most people who know what the f*ck they're doing don't spend all day posting stuff on the internet, so no you won't find truly useful stuff on the web. Not usually, anyhow. 99% of stuff on the web is regurgitated crap from those who know nothing or stuff spouted out by so-called professionals who most of the time are either stealing it from the true pro's or stirring the internet rumour mill

Extensive work has been done on the CVH.. but you're unlikely to get blueprints on it!

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

PMSL Always straight to the point pa sjo!
You've gotta love the forum 'professionals', like the guy that was trying to convince me the other day that you can adjust hydraulic lifters to stop tapping, re-use stretch head bolts, and that white smoke was caused by not having a CAT!! LOL

MADHEAD

hi karlos
as you can see by my profile i am a forum virgin
i had a little dig at austin just for a bit of fun hopefully he is not too mad whith me .
but i know what you meen i have been workng in engine development for over twenty years and i have worked for many of the so called best
engine builders in england and often i have helped them to progress
whith a little imput to whatever project they have given me .
often i have never received any gratitude often kept in the background
because of the egotistical attitude to grasp every secret they can and be the main man .
just human nature i guess,
i often see things on the net about engine work they have done and been quoted as gurus
when in actual fact it was mostly my work that i had done .
there are very few that are greatful and i can name many that are not
the only person who has actualy quoted me as been involved in his work
is ian howels thanks ian.
even though i have some talent for the job i do not profes to be an expert and i never will becouse i think if you have the blind attitude to call
yourself an expert you probably think you know it all and i have never yet met anyone who does no one does. ps the flow figures that were posted by austen some time ago for the cvh were totaly correct the cylinder bore size quoted was a mistake in the head specks menu in the program .
the reason i moved to switzerland was to get away from the moronic
attitude of 90 % of the brittish engine builders that act like spoiled kids
i am willing to speek to some extent to people that are interested
in my field of work but i cant tell all that i have lerned becouse that would be stupid and i cost me a lot of time and money to do so
hopfully we can all learn from each other.

Rick

have you done anything with the I4 RS2000 Mk5 head?

MADHEAD

hi rick
no i have not yet seen one i would be interested to see one but i do not want use this forum to gain work .
but if you post some detailed picks and messurements of the vaves valve throtes and and ports i will give you a good starting point for some good gains in flow .providing the head has not been ported allready
as 60% of head porters will loose more flow than it had to start off!

Ford RS Enthusiast

ian howels said his CVH heads flow 122CFM at 0.450" and 10". when i asked him about getting one off of him

i think the ones at CNC heads are standard size valves

Canada1

Thank you Ford RS,

We have been making some progress regarding the port development on our Escort 1.9 HO head. We have kept the port near factory size to have high port velocity. Our latest
port flow testing has shown 192 cfm at .450" lift at 28" (115 cfm at .450" lift and 10")
This is with factory 42mm valve. We lose 10 cfm using the Burtons stainless valves - it looks like the valve head underside has a smaller radius than factory valves.

The intake manifold is another issue - a bad issue. The flow drops to 165 cfm when the intake is bolted to the head. We need to do some work here.

CF20

yes Phil Holmes has a ian howell CVH 43mm big valve head with them flow figure as stated above 122CFM at 0.450" and 10"

he gets very good times with only 15 psi boost 0-60 5.4 / 0-100 11 1/4 @13.8

Canada1

i remember reading about the guy croft CVH head which he ported on his forum

i was also reading about different valve shapes he said that the seat/valve combo response depends very much on the short-side radius so might be good to post your finding on his forum see what he says about it losing 10 cfm flow with the bigger valves

crazycage

whos the best man to see about a ported blacktop zetec turbo head??

Rick

pm him mate, it's an ancient thread...

crazycage

smart arse

project rs

if you want the dogs of heads drop it round to garric44 there stuff is unriveled you should see the inlet there top guy just knocked up for me for my efi conversion