zvh engine ANYONE ? update 06/10/07 after rolling road
12-07-2007, 07:13 PM
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zvh engine ANYONE ? update 06/10/07 after rolling road
Basically after some info, my series 2 has a 2ltr zvh engine in which i built usuing standard zetec pistons and a 1.5mm de-comp plate its set at just under a bar of boost and a reasonable bit of advance on the dizzy(think i need and adjustable pulley to get it spot on) and it goes spot on pulls nice all the way through the revs, but we built one for a friend of mine but instead of using a de-comp plate he skimmed the standard zetec pistons by 1mm and when we try adjusting his boost and timing it just pinks is this because the compression is still to high as the rest is set the same as mine ?
12-07-2007, 11:26 PM
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Strange, I have the pistons skimmed 0,7mm. and running 0,9 Bar boost.
No troubles with detonation......
In my opinion it must be for an other reason. Maybe way to less fuel under full load.
No troubles with detonation......
In my opinion it must be for an other reason. Maybe way to less fuel under full load.
12-07-2007, 11:31 PM
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Dee comp plate isn't a good way to go, piston machining is better when done correctly.
As for your mates dettin, Its all down to the chip/ecu's, and set up, and not the engine (even tho its not unheard of on different engine designs)
As for your mates dettin, Its all down to the chip/ecu's, and set up, and not the engine (even tho its not unheard of on different engine designs)
12-07-2007, 11:47 PM
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Didn't know a decomp plate isn't a good option.
Anyone has experience on what's the max boost with 0,7mm. skimmed pistons? (sorry to steal the topic)
drsrst2zvh probably a decent setup will sort the problem out.
Anyone has experience on what's the max boost with 0,7mm. skimmed pistons? (sorry to steal the topic)
drsrst2zvh probably a decent setup will sort the problem out.
13-07-2007, 05:41 AM
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but you can get it to pink even low down so this is what makes me think the compreesion is wrong i mean although ive had 1mm off the pistons i dont know how much the block or head have been skimmed in there lives so if those two have had a mm off between them im running standard comp because the piston amount is just replacing what has been removed from the block and head ?
13-07-2007, 06:25 AM
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1mm skim off the head and block, will need more than 1mm off the pistons to get c/r back the same.
if its detting, it isn't setup for the newer spec.
if its detting, it isn't setup for the newer spec.
13-07-2007, 11:13 AM
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Well im going to do a compression check on my own car tonight as i know mine is spot on, then do the same test on my mates with the skimmed pistons and see if his is much higher than mine then i think that will show my thoughts are right and the comp is to high, ive been told anything below 150 psi is ok for 1 bar any higher then 
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14-07-2007, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
that wont show the cr.
as too many variables, ie cam, cam timing, rings, valves, battery, starter.
as too many variables, ie cam, cam timing, rings, valves, battery, starter.
14-07-2007, 11:53 AM
#10
not neceserally, your car might have lower compression as you havnt stripped yours down to change the rings, where as your friend would have when he had the pistons machined,
as dan said, its probly down to the set up, are you both using the same turbo, ?
as dan said, its probly down to the set up, are you both using the same turbo, ?
14-07-2007, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zippyobrien
not neceserally, your car might have lower compression as you havnt stripped yours down to change the rings, where as your friend would have when he had the pistons machined,
as dan said, its probly down to the set up, are you both using the same turbo, ?
as dan said, its probly down to the set up, are you both using the same turbo, ?
no he is using a stage 3 hybrid turbo with a -31 but the boost is set just under a bar wich is not very much considering, im doing the comp test this afternoon so ill post the results up and see what you lot think
14-07-2007, 04:32 PM
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right done the comp test and the de comp plate engine done 150 psi which ive been told is right but the skimmed piston engine done 180 psi so is way to high
14-07-2007, 07:04 PM
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Why is it too high?
As i said depends on too many things.
my 1600 cvh running std comp ratio is 175psi on std cam, times to 104 degrees, 155 psi at 112 degrees. and 165psi on kent 35 cam @ 118 degrees.
All on same day, using same tester and method, with booster connected.
He's running a larger turbo, on un set up car, and unknown engine C/R, IT NEEDS SETTING UP.
As i said depends on too many things.
my 1600 cvh running std comp ratio is 175psi on std cam, times to 104 degrees, 155 psi at 112 degrees. and 165psi on kent 35 cam @ 118 degrees.
All on same day, using same tester and method, with booster connected.
He's running a larger turbo, on un set up car, and unknown engine C/R, IT NEEDS SETTING UP.
14-07-2007, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Why is it too high?
As i said depends on too many things.
my 1600 cvh running std comp ratio is 175psi on std cam, times to 104 degrees, 155 psi at 112 degrees. and 165psi on kent 35 cam @ 118 degrees.
All on same day, using same tester and method, with booster connected.
He's running a larger turbo, on un set up car, and unknown engine C/R, IT NEEDS SETTING UP.
As i said depends on too many things.
my 1600 cvh running std comp ratio is 175psi on std cam, times to 104 degrees, 155 psi at 112 degrees. and 165psi on kent 35 cam @ 118 degrees.
All on same day, using same tester and method, with booster connected.
He's running a larger turbo, on un set up car, and unknown engine C/R, IT NEEDS SETTING UP.
14-07-2007, 08:53 PM
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Ok, i'll stop wasting my time posting.
But low comp is not needed, if set up correctly. i've run 10.5:1 turbo CVH's before. and guess what @ 10psi it didn't det.
14-07-2007, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Ok, i'll stop wasting my time posting.
But low comp is not needed, if set up correctly. i've run 10.5:1 turbo CVH's before. and guess what @ 10psi it didn't det.
14-07-2007, 09:14 PM
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If you go to a RST tuner that can re write the ign chip, then being retarded on boost isn't a issue, unless EGT's start getting too hot.
i honestly think you should retard timing till it stop's the det, and measure the static timing.
it can be detting for more than just C/R, ie.
- fueling,
- too advance timing,
- ecu fault/ ecu not ready boost correctly, could be a boost leak between inlet and ecu.
i honestly think you should retard timing till it stop's the det, and measure the static timing.
it can be detting for more than just C/R, ie.
- fueling,
- too advance timing,
- ecu fault/ ecu not ready boost correctly, could be a boost leak between inlet and ecu.
14-07-2007, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
If you go to a RST tuner that can re write the ign chip, then being retarded on boost isn't a issue, unless EGT's start getting too hot.
i honestly think you should retard timing till it stop's the det, and measure the static timing.
it can be detting for more than just C/R, ie.
- fueling,
- too advance timing,
- ecu fault/ ecu not ready boost correctly, could be a boost leak between inlet and ecu.
i honestly think you should retard timing till it stop's the det, and measure the static timing.
it can be detting for more than just C/R, ie.
- fueling,
- too advance timing,
- ecu fault/ ecu not ready boost correctly, could be a boost leak between inlet and ecu.
15-07-2007, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
How retarded?
is it chipped or on std ecu? as if its not chipped for spec, then it will run retarded off boost to cure det.
is it chipped or on std ecu? as if its not chipped for spec, then it will run retarded off boost to cure det.
15-07-2007, 09:05 AM
#21
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So one is a S1 engine in a s2, the other is a s2 in a s2.
What chips are fitted, how do you know they are chipped, have you had the ecu's checked?
How retarded? you haven't measured it, so how do you know how retarded it is?
Have you removed the cam, and check it is std? have you set the cam timing on adj verniers on each car? as ones been apart and most prob a skim, and the others got a comp plate,
In which case what cam timing figures have you used?
If been done with std marks, 1) cam timing wrong, so compressions wont be the same, 2) as cam timing wrong the ign will be out too, unless set up with a timing light, or det checked by a skilled person.
If neither of the above is done, they both aren't tuned/set up.
What chips are fitted, how do you know they are chipped, have you had the ecu's checked?
How retarded? you haven't measured it, so how do you know how retarded it is?
Have you removed the cam, and check it is std? have you set the cam timing on adj verniers on each car? as ones been apart and most prob a skim, and the others got a comp plate,
In which case what cam timing figures have you used?
If been done with std marks, 1) cam timing wrong, so compressions wont be the same, 2) as cam timing wrong the ign will be out too, unless set up with a timing light, or det checked by a skilled person.
If neither of the above is done, they both aren't tuned/set up.
15-07-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
So one is a S1 engine in a s2, the other is a s2 in a s2.
What chips are fitted, how do you know they are chipped, have you had the ecu's checked?
How retarded? you haven't measured it, so how do you know how retarded it is?
Have you removed the cam, and check it is std? have you set the cam timing on adj verniers on each car? as ones been apart and most prob a skim, and the others got a comp plate,
In which case what cam timing figures have you used?
If been done with std marks, 1) cam timing wrong, so compressions wont be the same, 2) as cam timing wrong the ign will be out too, unless set up with a timing light, or det checked by a skilled person.
If neither of the above is done, they both aren't tuned/set up.
What chips are fitted, how do you know they are chipped, have you had the ecu's checked?
How retarded? you haven't measured it, so how do you know how retarded it is?
Have you removed the cam, and check it is std? have you set the cam timing on adj verniers on each car? as ones been apart and most prob a skim, and the others got a comp plate,
In which case what cam timing figures have you used?
If been done with std marks, 1) cam timing wrong, so compressions wont be the same, 2) as cam timing wrong the ign will be out too, unless set up with a timing light, or det checked by a skilled person.
If neither of the above is done, they both aren't tuned/set up.
15-07-2007, 09:41 AM
#23
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The cam marks are only for a std, un touched engine, but even then, they arn't that accurate.
so as soon as its been skimmed, or de comp plate fitted, your not be able to get the mark spot on.
So the cam needs dialing up with a dial gauge and a adjustable vernier to get it spot on.
Then the ign timing needs setting @ 900 rpm, @ 12' static timing, (or if chipped, what ever the chip manufacture says)
But ideally needs setting up with Det cans whilst on boost.
so as soon as its been skimmed, or de comp plate fitted, your not be able to get the mark spot on.
So the cam needs dialing up with a dial gauge and a adjustable vernier to get it spot on.
Then the ign timing needs setting @ 900 rpm, @ 12' static timing, (or if chipped, what ever the chip manufacture says)
But ideally needs setting up with Det cans whilst on boost.
15-07-2007, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
The cam marks are only for a std, un touched engine, but even then, they arn't that accurate.
so as soon as its been skimmed, or de comp plate fitted, your not be able to get the mark spot on.
So the cam needs dialing up with a dial gauge and a adjustable vernier to get it spot on.
Then the ign timing needs setting @ 900 rpm, @ 12' static timing, (or if chipped, what ever the chip manufacture says)
But ideally needs setting up with Det cans whilst on boost.
so as soon as its been skimmed, or de comp plate fitted, your not be able to get the mark spot on.
So the cam needs dialing up with a dial gauge and a adjustable vernier to get it spot on.
Then the ign timing needs setting @ 900 rpm, @ 12' static timing, (or if chipped, what ever the chip manufacture says)
But ideally needs setting up with Det cans whilst on boost.
15-07-2007, 10:25 AM
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one quick question for you though, if i couldnt get the marks to line up and needed a adj pulley would i set the block at tdc then line the head up with the standard pulley to dot then fit the adj pulley on so i can get the belt to fit without moving the cam and block ? cheers.
15-07-2007, 12:27 PM
#27
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you could do, but wont be as accurate as it would be it dialed up correctly.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
16-07-2007, 08:02 AM
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Im using a decomp plate and mine runs sweet. Never had a problem (touch wood). I'm running about 16 psi at the mo.
Was told it could take 20. Any truth in that???
I dont wanna push my luck
Was told it could take 20. Any truth in that???
I dont wanna push my luck
16-07-2007, 09:21 AM
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Well the engine with the decomp plate (the one in my sig) is running just under 1 bar round 12psi and it goes like stink. When i built mine i was told be the engineering company that it would run a bar all day long on standard pistons anything more it would start to melt psitons.
05-10-2007, 05:41 PM
#30
An update on this s2 zvh engine, i have pulled the head off and fitted a 1.5mm decomp plate to it, i have put it all back together and run it up. Took it for a spin and the pinking has stopped but if i advance the dizzy to much and increase the boost more than .7 of a bar i can get it to pink in 4th and 5th, so do you guys think this problem can be solved by a rolling road set up as i didnt think there is actually much you can play with on the s2 mfi set up, any info much appreciated
05-10-2007, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
you could do, but wont be as accurate as it would be it dialed up correctly.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
Thank you in advance.........
05-10-2007, 06:23 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by coswurv
An update on this s2 zvh engine, i have pulled the head off and fitted a 1.5mm decomp plate to it, i have put it all back together and run it up. Took it for a spin and the pinking has stopped but if i advance the dizzy to much and increase the boost more than .7 of a bar i can get it to pink in 4th and 5th, so do you guys think this problem can be solved by a rolling road set up as i didnt think there is actually much you can play with on the s2 mfi set up, any info much appreciated
Originally Posted by MarkXr
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
you could do, but wont be as accurate as it would be it dialed up correctly.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
Thank you in advance.........
A dial gauge thro the spark plug hole.
(will need a extension on the dial gauge)
05-10-2007, 07:27 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Originally Posted by coswurv
An update on this s2 zvh engine, i have pulled the head off and fitted a 1.5mm decomp plate to it, i have put it all back together and run it up. Took it for a spin and the pinking has stopped but if i advance the dizzy to much and increase the boost more than .7 of a bar i can get it to pink in 4th and 5th, so do you guys think this problem can be solved by a rolling road set up as i didnt think there is actually much you can play with on the s2 mfi set up, any info much appreciated
Originally Posted by MarkXr
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
you could do, but wont be as accurate as it would be it dialed up correctly.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
Fit cam pulley (needs to ne on correct timing) and belt and tension belt.
Basicly, you have to spin the crank pully to the set degrees (as quoted by the cam manufacture, or ford, on CVH usually 104 - 120 degrees, depanding on cam fitted).
Then undo vernier adj bolts, spin the cam to get No 1 inlet valve at full lift, using dial gauge.
- spin the engine to make sure belts tension'd correctly all round, and no valve to piston.
- then double check the cam dialed correctly.
- run up, get warm, and set the idle, mixture, ign timing.
Thank you in advance.........
A dial gauge thro the spark plug hole.
(will need a extension on the dial gauge)
06-10-2007, 08:32 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by coswurv
exactly what i thought dan to be honest, im taking it to the pf rolling road day tomoz so i can get an idea of what it needs, you going ?
I'm not sure how good PF are with RST's now, after the rr, i would take it to your decided tuner and go from their.
Torque of the devil, APT, or any other good tuner who's worked with the MFI/RST alot.
06-10-2007, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by drsrst2zvh
Originally Posted by Fiecos Dan
Why is it too high?
As i said depends on too many things.
my 1600 cvh running std comp ratio is 175psi on std cam, times to 104 degrees, 155 psi at 112 degrees. and 165psi on kent 35 cam @ 118 degrees.
All on same day, using same tester and method, with booster connected.
He's running a larger turbo, on un set up car, and unknown engine C/R, IT NEEDS SETTING UP.
As i said depends on too many things.
my 1600 cvh running std comp ratio is 175psi on std cam, times to 104 degrees, 155 psi at 112 degrees. and 165psi on kent 35 cam @ 118 degrees.
All on same day, using same tester and method, with booster connected.
He's running a larger turbo, on un set up car, and unknown engine C/R, IT NEEDS SETTING UP.
sean
08-10-2007, 03:23 PM
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Turboboss: Spot on there mate....the jap guys have bin using high comp engines for a while and even cossie owners/tuners are realising that u don't need to run 7:1 c/r to run a load of boost!! One of the reasons evo's and the like are so quick.....and how they make power with less boost than cossies etc!
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