Stuart, Bernie and I are all at a loss as to why for nineteen months and over 6,000 miles, the Stage 1 ERST gearbox in my Mk3 Fiesta, built for me in April/May 2005, has been slow at shifting from gear to gear, be it up or down the gearbox, and in all gears.

I fitted a 220bhp 1800 Zetec Turbo to the car, completing in April 2005, and installed this gearbox from the beginning. CTS have had the gearbox for the last three weeks, and after an expensive strip/inspect/rebuild, have found the 'box to be in tip top condition. Here is a run-down of everything I have done, and everything related to the problem.

1. I am using an AP 4 paddle clutch. Bite point was very low, so I fitted a manual adjust clutch pedal and new cable, plus a brand new Ford clutch lever arm at the gearbox end. Even with the slack taken up (using the adjustor at the pedal end) in the clutch cable, i.e. no free play in the clutch pedal - giving FULL effective travel of the pedal, this problem persists.

2. I rebuilt the gear linkage using brand new, all-original OEM Ford parts (bar the stabiliser rod which is fine, but I will check the bush once more). So that is new gear lever, new upper housing, new lower housing, new springs, new plungers, new gear selector rod.

3. Oil used was fully synthetic Castrol 75W90 transmission fluid, as advised by CTS, though they later said that Castrol isn't ideal, but I was using the right grade.

4. The flywheel was skimmed before fitting it to the engine and fitting the clutch. Quite a bit was taken off (it's an EFi Fiesta flywheel, sourced from a friend's 2.1ZT, and had quite a bit of wear and tear on the friction face as a result of hard paddle clutch use, as was expected); but I say provided the gearbox input shaft still mates up to the crankshaft as usual (not affected by flywheel thickness), and that the release bearing still sits on the clutch cover fingers, the flywheel skimming shouldn't make a difference

5. The front face of the input shaft isn't damaged, so appears to be mating up to the crankshaft properly.


Any feedback from any of you? Has anyone else had a similar problem? I'm completely stumped, as are all at CTS, so if it doesn't cleanly and quickly select gears when I bolt it in over the weekend, I'll be back to square one with far less hair and cash than I had 16 months ago!!!

 

Whats it like selecting gears without the rod connected - ie manually ?

 

It's fine, and is fine with the engine at idle and very low speeds, but above perhaps around 2,500rpm it's a sluggish, laboured change. Occasionally if I try to hurry it from third to fourth it'll lightly snick into gear with a short, gentle, barely-audible crunch, but otherwise, it's just slow with a lot of resistance.

 

sounds like gear box need looking at may be from some were else just to be sure

 

abdr500 - I'll trust CTS for now matey, as it's cost three weeks and Ł250 to get it look at this once. I know it's always better to get a second opinion, but attempting to resolve this problem has cost me well in excess of Ł400 now, which doesn't sound like much, but in the grand scale of things (i.e. turning a 1993 Fiesta into something special, which costs relatively little when considering the modern cars it outperforms) it is a lot.

 

How much is another box gonna run you?
If the gearbox folk have looked at it and have exhausted all ideas imo its time to stop wasting money on the box in question.
Surly it must be a clearance issue with something in the box,maybe not something thats normally servicable or measured upon building??

 

Rs1 - It's an Ł800 gearbox, so replacing it now after having it rebuilt would be a tad foolish IMO. First I need to bolt it back in and see what the situation is now. It'll have slightly different oil in, a new release bearing and I'll inspect the reaction rod (the second of the two levers that make up the gear linkage) bush to make sure it's not sloppy. It wasn't when I last inspected it shortly before fitting the gearbox for the first time.

 

In my opinion you really need to try another box, bound to be someone in your area with a bc box going spare you borrow. I know it's a arse swapping boxes but will be the best way.

Who inspected it? CTS?

 

James - I live in the middle of nowhere, but yeah, borrowing another gearbox and/or clutch would've been handy. Since my gearbox has now been rebuilt, and will have a new release bearing and different oil in it, I'll fit it back in before I start trying other things, or could be wasting time if the problem has been resolved.

Yes, CTS inspected it.

 

Has it just been rebuilt for that fault......i mean have you tried it since the last inspection?

 

what clutch? are you sure the clutch is disengaging properly?

 

It does sound more clutch related than anything

 

Rs1 - Yep, it only went to them because of the slow-shifting problem, I'd run out of possibilities. As I say, I'll be bolting it back in over the weekend hopefully, since it'll be returning to me tomorrow.

Jim Galbally - AP 4 paddle clutch as above

So you see, there should be no reason for the clutch not to be disengaging properly, though, as you say, it sounds clutch release-related. At low speeds/idle I can bat the gear lever around with ease, but under load and at normal use speeds, it resists.

I'll emphasise again that I won't take any offence at the most ridiculous of suggestions, not many of you know me so I could be a dunce with an airgun for all you know!

 

You have got the linkage stabaliser bar secured correctly?

 

James - Yep, big old 19mm bolt into the gearbox that never ever comes loose, and it's held in place by two of the bolts that hold the gear linkage housing together at the other end. The bush through which the bolt passes to secure it to the gearbox is still nice and stiff too. I have a brand new replacement bush, but it's simply not needed.

 

don't CTS reccomend AGAINST using those clutches? i remember chatting with bernie about them ages ago.

i could be wrong tho.

what heppens if drive, then come to a standstill in gear (clutch in) then try to engage your gears? still stiff? and after youve engaged them once whilst stationary, then re-engage, do they now go in smooth?

 

What condition are the engine / gearbox mounts ?

Sounds to me like there is some movement under load somewhere

 

Jimmy G - I haven't heard anyone recommending people not to use the AP 4 paddle, only if they're planning on building a car that'll serve as a traffic/commuter car matey. They certainly haven't said anything negative about it in all the chats I've had with them In the scenario you go through above, it selects gears fine, as it is at idle, but once on the move, the resistance returns.

Rus - Gearbox mounts are Vibra-Technics Comp (i.e. the hardest) mounts, and were brand new about 5,000 miles ago. Both are still in tip top condition. The engine mount is 6,000 miles old, and a recent trip to the rolling road at SCC showed there to be very little engine movement, even when hitting the hard cut limiter at full throttle/6,500rpm.

 

Drop it down onto standard, or at least the road Vibratechnics

They may be too hard.

I run them (on my competition car) and have nightmares sometimes with my B&M shifter in the heat of the moment. When I dont think about it it can be fine, but sometimes it struggles like fuk to find some gears.

I know thats not a box issue tho'

So 5000 miles on the box, and 6000 miles on the hard mounts..... hmmmm about the same time period

 

Rus - I would do that, but I also know the life span of standard mounts with 200lbft+ of torque, and the life span of the bonnet sitting over the engine! I was using Deflex mounts, which are substantially softer, but, predictably, after fewer than 500 miles the bloody bolt snapped. I think we all know what to expect from Deflex and their "300bhp guaranteed" mounts etc now anyway

I hear what you're saying, and appreciate the direct relation to the way you find it works on your car, but whether I'm trying to hurry the shift or not, it resists What do you think about that? I don't really expect it to be a gearbox issue now, since that is one more thing I've checked over (well, it was checked over for me by CTS) and can be crossed off the list hopefully.

 

Potential for a missalignment problem no matter what speed your doing has increased and therefore needs to be ruled out.

Going backwards can sometimes be a step forwards.

Ok you may not be able to run with them, but that problem can then be worked on.

 

Surely if misalignment's an issue, then allowing the engine and gearbox to move around MORE is going to magnify the problem? It appears to be correctly aligned, as the smooth, well-aligned and fast gear shifts at idle would suggest. So if I change to softer mounts and let the whole lot jiggle around, that'll increase the chance of things becoming misaligned

 

If your not prepared to give it a go then I give up ....

 

mine works

 

Haha I'm not saying that at all ya gimp, and you didn't answer my question Justify your suggestion of using jiggly mounts to stop the gearshift feeling as though it's being hindered when on the move

 

With age your body is flexing, you have solidly mounted the front end making it difficult to select gears

Will that do ??


Yours faithfully Mr Gimp

 

But there's freedom of movement at the gear lever end Stoopid problem. I'll bear it in mind, though others using hard and even solid engine mounts don't have this issue, even people with Mk3 Fiestas with ZTs in them don't have this issue, using the same gearbox! I'll see what happens when it goes back in, and will remember your suggestion. I certainly appreciate your time and input - I'm assuming I've seen the last of it now since I questioned you

 

No your local enough for me to let you try my gearbox

Something I guess these other people havn't suggested yet.

Or maybe they have and you just didn't want to listen


Tony

 

I would of thought CTS would inspect your gearbox for free

Hope you get it sorted

Steve.

 

james thats Defiantly the clutch m8 cant you turn the boost down and try a standard one just to see if it is, but i'm 100% sure its a clutch issue.

 

Clutch or flywheel issue by the sounds of it....

 

Rus - Yeah I'd try one, 100 miles away isn't massively local, but thanks for the offer! If, when I try the gearbox this time, I have no joy, I may just take you up on that offer, thanks!

cossie4i - Would've been nice eh?

Sean/Martin - Yup, because of the nature of the problem (i.e. quick changes at idle, resistance at higher engine speeds while on the move - note the reference to engine speeds, not necessarily load) you'd think clutch/flywheel, but as both were in such good nick when I inspected them last night, I was a bit annoyed tbh!

Pics from last night:













The gearbox will be back with me today. The only other clutch I have here is a bog standard diesel Fiesta clutch, which would perhaps hold onto about 170bhp. Are we thinking it's more likely that it'd be the clutch cover than the clutch plate itself? It's the AP clutch kit, i.e. cover and friction plate, and plenty of other people use them

 

get hold of another ERST box

 

Cheers Ian

 

bugger im too late! while the box was with CTS i would have seriously recommended you upgrade it to a 2+

a stg1 box running that power (what torque) wont last long imo

 

Rich - I would've done, but don't feel like splashing out on the car much at the moment. I'm not going to be squeezing any more power from this engine, so it's not worth it. If I take things forward it'll be an all-new engine, all-new transmission, management, exhaust etc etc, it's all great as it is now, bar this minor problem.

It's around 220bhp, so 200-220lbft at a guess, and has been doing so for a year and a half, over 6,000 miles. CTS said it's all in great nick still, so there we go It gets a pounding, quite a few standing starts, 0-60 attempts and a bit of Brunters play time.

Update

I've just had a long chat with the boys and girls at AP Racing and they want a look at my clutch plate and clutch cover, so they're going off down there for a look over.