Now i have recieved complaints regarding me selling to the public,as i do supply alot of trade....not all for some reason

Now i can see there point,so is it a case of Trade only or Private only?

If i do both then the people i supply wont sell what they buy from me....lol.....or is that bollocks?

Is there enuff room for me to supply public too?As i do realise not many like me and wouldnt use me anyway regardless of price.

Need input guys.........or do i just jack it all in..LOL.

 

I dont see the problem as the trade get it cheaper than the public anyway.

Not all the public know about you so will use trade.

All IMO.

 

Phil,

Have a set trade rate, which you do anyway.

If you're gonna sell to the public, keep it in line with the consensus - i.e. greens at Ł50 (or go to Ł48 if you have to.........)

Let the trade have their mark up, and don't undercut the trader, as it takes from their customer base.

 

depends if you sell same prices to trade as you do retail...

no one can stop you selling to both, but trade obviously need to be getting them cheaper, and you shouldnt really under cut the traders who you supply prices imo!

 

Pon did you find them seatbelts?


If i sell for the same as the traders i supply i might as well not bother supplying public as you know no one will use me unless i am way cheaper.

 

If you get more trade sales, then i'd stick with them, they're the ones who are getting you money, and if they disappear, who from the public will buy from you?

under cutting your traders is one easy way to alienate them and force them NOT to buy from yourself!

 

I want to supply all the trade......i thought it was good business sense for them to buy at the lowest price..not all see it like that!

Another thing is a lot of traders wont say how much they already pay so i can deffo undercut there original supplier There is alot of Bosch sales in this game and i would say saving money is beneficial!

 

to be honest if you are cheaper than the trade then ppl will buy from u regardless

and the cheaper u are the more your name will get mentioned etc..

 

Phil - sorry mate - forgot about them.

Will have a look in the morning.

 

Cheers Rich

Cossie1 that is NOT true in my case!!!!!!!!

 

maybe not with trade but with public it will be

 

i mean the public...but to be fair i dont advertise outside here....

 

As i am deffo one of the folk who have complained, lets look at the issue's properly since youve chosen to do it in public for some bizzare and inexplicable reason

I will essential post on here what i said to you in my mail..

------------------------------------------------------------
A PF customer was buying chip/greys/fitkit etc from me and hes just pulled out of the greys as he says you are selling em to him at ŁX each less than me...!!!
What gets me though, is you could sell em at only Ł1 less than me and still be the cheapest in Performance Ford, cos currently, at Ł68 i am now the cheapest so why do you LOSE yourself ŁX on a set of injectors? I really cannot understand it mate.. it baffles me as well as costs me a sale..!!??!!

I really am interested in your thoughts on this mate to be honest as SURELY you can see what im saying here? peeps will buy from the guy who is 50P cheapest so why be more than 50p cheaper? It only costs you money and your trade suppiers a sale!!

Anyway.. sure aint going to fall out over it, it just peeved me when he PM'd me this morning to be honest...
-----------------------------------------------

So there you go Phil. The reason traders like myself are pissed is you sell to retail at virtually the same as you sell to us, because sat at home you have no overheads, whilst i sat in my business premises have approx 1K per week to find before im into any wages..

I also sell to trade and retail, and i have no problems, because i have a real and working trade/retail price structure and unless this is compromised, everyone will be happy.

If i am only Ł1 more than Phil on my greys and your having the chip/map sensor etc from me anyway, i expect you will buy it all from me... great, but if Phil will sell you em for Ł20 less, then im losing the sale,and then when theres problems with the kit, whos at fault...? Its a WHOLE lot easier if i supply it all, especially from a warranty point of view.

Does everyone understand this trade/retail Issue?

 

if you are that cheap to the public then you shouldn't need to as ppl from here will tell everyone

 

There should be a distinct and clear gap between trade and retail prices. Thats why Rally Design lost my respect a few years ago because they suddenly issued their trade catalogue to anyone with a pulse.

And that's why when I'm asked for a trade list by a fresh virginous trader who has just given up his secure job to become one, I alway wish him good luck as he's gonna need it when the markup on certain items is only pennies!!

 

Stu.......dont be paranoid mate your not the only one!.....So i deceided this was a public issue.....because i want the publics input as to wether i remain private aswell as trade

As for you mentioning my overheads...infact i do have them as i am acting for my Familys company....i add around 10% mark up and the said company takes 2.5% of that!....I only do this too fund my cars and NOT for a living as i am officially retired or retarded according to many..ROFL...So as you see i do really make fook all..BUT i got a blinding turn over due to my low prices which gets me discounts on parts

I am merely asking should i just concentrtae on trade or public or both and advice on not upsetting each other!As said i hardlysupply private at the mo and the ones i do get the same price as trade due to being "PF" family

 

i can see two sides to this , one is that yes you want to supply all the traders at a very competetive price to be all other suppliers , the other is that most people will buy from the cheapest supplier out there,

the problem is here

i will always try my supplier 1st , i will ring stu/kenny and say have u got / can u get ??

now , because i know my supplier very well , and is always my 1st choice then i know i will get an honoust answer as to yes/ no can get /cant get and the price will always be competetive , not ness the cheapest in all cases , but the service will be second to none , then the next item i buy will beat all prices hands down , so even if i paid and extra Ł2.50 (and thats all im talkin if there is ever a differance ) then the next time i will say tat and then some.

so i think alot of the retail problem is that alot of people dont trust anyone in psrticular to but all or most of there items from

so in the trade v retail row then the suppliers to the trade i.e you phil need to keep trade trade and retail retail , and thats that, otherwise your just gonna screw the whole system up, i know what its like im in the trade for my occupation , so you must set and stick to set margins , if your not doing it to make a lot of money , then set up your trade , than add a mark up for retail , then if you have to discount to sell to the public , just dont drop to the trade discount or your back at square one !!

hth

mark

 

I wouldnt buy anything off a guy who drives a car with 3 spokes

 

As said Phil, i do NOT want you to pull out of retail and never have wanted that

You need to accept that undercutting folk by selling at trade prices direct to the public is NEVER going to make your traders happy as you have sold to them, and then undercut them and stole the customer they were going to sell the part that they bought from you to... (if that makes sense )

Margins need to exist or we as tuners will simply cease to..
A lot of retail customers cant understand that and it does at times piss me off that folk moan ive made Ł5

Let me give an average example of tuner overheads:
Industrial Unit: Ł600
Gas /Elec/Water Ł100
Telephone Ł100
Insurance Ł500
Advertising Ł1000
Sundries Ł200
Equip lease Ł500

So lets say your average tuner spends the above Ł3000 per month and has 2 staff wanting Ł250 each per week that means to simply "Exist" this company now requires Ł5000.00 per month in PROFIT to EXIST at all...

Now given the average mark up on an item is 25% the required sales to make this profit are estimated at Ł20,000.00 Per MONTH..

Please think about that figure next time a tuner asks for Ł5 more for a Ł100 part than some bedroom trader whos cheapest in the magazine please guys......

"Stu took Ł94 off me for a simple setup"

"Did i? Oh good, just another Ł19,900 to go this month then.. what a robber i am!!"

 

Im hearin you

 

I have the same problem as i also sell to retail and trade(not what your sellin lads),alot of my competion and suppliera sell at low prices also which i have to either beat or i dont sell its as simple as that unfortuantly there is no fixed price by law so you can sell at what you want.its a case of like it or lump it i guess.
Also i have found out that there are no friends in bus,its not a fare world im affraid.

I would say in phils case not everyone knows of or uses him so his share to the public is minimal,but i guess its up to him what he sells at.If he's cheap trade then traders will still using him it would seem silly to stop if he's the best trade price .

 

no need to stop selling them to retail but work out your mark ups better.

what sort of price difference are we talking from for example... stu to phil?

as if it was only Ł20 diff on a set then youd still get from usual supplier etc.

but on the other hand.........
you could price match them stu, in order to sort a complete deal.
chip injectors and fitting kit with one price... discounted for a set.... bought separately costs more....

depends on your own price structure...
obviously you would lose margin on them.... but now youve lost a sale.


but its not good practice to seriously undercut your customers (resellers) id have a think about pricing personally....

i reckon IMA racing should start retailing EVO chips!!

 

So i make perhaps 50pence intead of a Ł5 now and still offer a full warranty too? No thanks pal, Phil can keep his sale... lol

 

stu

i agree with what your saying about trade and retail prices but you cant moan about your overheads compared to "bedroom" trader- thats your choice by size of unit etc, if someone can earn good wages from his bedroom then good luck to 'em. i rent many units for storage and go months on end without opening doors - techniclly costing me money but in reality i still pay the rent with ease by choosing the right cars to store till i get round to fixing them and selling them.

your overheads are immaterial to joe bloggs on the street- he just wants cheapest he can get!

Tricky

 

Phil,

Your biggest problem is that you're not slack in your delivery either, so joe public can't even criticise with "he's cheap, but takes his time" - not the first time I'm sure you're heard that from another man

Just remember, trade will ALWAYS be there................

 

Phil i would offer a bulk discount and then the traders can get their reduced prices that way!
Joe public will buy only one set at a time and will therefore have to pay more!

 

Whilst i do agree with what you are saying, the fact remains that in this business i need to have premises to do what i do correctly. Im not arguing about Phils prices, i was essentially trying to illustrate WHY a retail/trade structure does in fact exist in the first place before someone pops up and says:
"If Phil can be happy with Ł1 profit, why arent you Stu? Stop being greedy!"

I was also hoping to illustrate again to Phil, that the main person he hurts by draggingf the market price down too far is HIMSELF... you retail customers dont lose out as your still buying cheaper than ever before...

 

Agree with Stu. Phil there needs to be some disparity in you pricing structure. Joe Public will normally only buy one set of injectors off you, traders will buy loads.

In fact, I bet if you put your prices up to JP, then the amount you sold to traders would increase...

 

i do see where Stu is comming for and tbh i must say i agree with him although i have bought serveral times from you Phil.

If i would have to pay 20 quid extra for a set i wouldnt mind and would pay Stu to get it off him BUT if i know i can get em 20 quid each cheaper from you Phil i offcourse would buy them from you

 

The way i see it i have to be more expensive than anyone i supply prices...cause if i up my prices to the public but still beat the trade i will still be told off

 

Well why do you see it like that? Whats given you that impression?

Im cheapest in Perf Ford for the last few months... no ones phoned me and moaned? And when someone undercuts me slightly i simply undercut them... AS LONG AS THERE IS STILL MARGIN TO FUND OUR EXISTENCE... this is the point.

Once the product no longer has a profit margin, we will stop selling it, simple.

 

If my supplier was selling to joe public for a very similar price to what I was selling them for, I would change the supplier straight away!

Why should I let him have 2 bites off the cherry and affect my profit margins when I buy in bulk and regular and joe public doesn't? The occasional once or twice maybe and that meaning occasionally.

The most courteous way to sort it out would be for say Ima to contact the local trader when an enquiry or order comes through, eg: Stu, Karl, etc, etc and send them the info so they can deal with it and still make some kind of profit on the deal ....it shows loyalty to the trader and the joe public gets it at a good price still ...problem sorted IMO

 

Surely Stu this is the whole point?.....Why buy from me when i still gonna beat YOUR retail price?

I dont want to upset the trade like i appear to be doin

 

Exactly what we do with our 43 dealers.

 

Youve not quite followed my point Phil, the issue was the amount of discount that was effectively removing our incentive to sell it.

If say you were Ł1 less... i could have said to teh punter, ok il match the price.. punters happy and i sold teh whole package so im happy and you sold me the greys so your happy..

But as it was, the whole package sale was bolloxed so im unhappy and you sold 2 sets of greys so your very happy.. 1 to me which i still have and i to the punter....

The other issue is of course that you selling at trade prices makes me look very expensive when in fact im actually quite cheap due to having a good supplier The reason for the decent mark up is of course teh overheads previously detailed...

 

I would be most pissed off if i was selling someting for Ł10, making Ł5 profit, and my supplier selling for Ł5, making say Ł2 profit (the profit of which is irrelevant), especially when I have also paid the same Ł5.

What then is the point of traders buying from the supplier when the supplier is selling for the same price and then loosing the sale?

Basically Phil, you're left with 3 sensible options.

1> Sell to both trade and retail, but dont under cut your re-sellers
2> Sell only to Public or Trade. If trade only, and you received a retail query, point them to your nearest outlet.
3> Sell to both trade and retail, but have a proper pricing structure. You could either match prices with your sellers, or sell a bit more expensive. This is difficult to regulate, as you cannot force traders to sell at your price, and you'll always get a trader or 2 who sells alot cheaper than someone else, and therefore get the occasional grievence.

Personally, as you appear to do little retail sales, and more trade, then i'd stick with your trade and knock retail on the head. Therefore, picking option 2. No one is having to pay anymore for your goods, you're not loosing out on any money, as the trader will always want to replenish sold stock and then everyone is happy.

If i'm talking complete bollocks, please let me know

 

I agree with Stu. For example Phil you sell to Joe Public 1 set of greys for 80 quid each. You sell Stu 50 sets for 60 quid each. You make out it the end. Then he sells to Joe public for 80 quid and he still makes out. It simply a play of numbers and for you the best numbers are in bulk.

 

Gotta say Stu, I never realised the overheads as a tuner was so high!! Although I've never been one to buy loads of stuff from mail order firms to get fitted by a tuner (unless it's really substantial amounts of money involved) for reasons you've stated.

 

Im not sure they are massively higher than many other types of trade to be honest Ian... unsure though...

Advertising is a killer as it has to be national... yellow pages dont cut it.

Insurance at 6K per annum is also a killer..

The rest i guess is pretty standard overheads though mate.... It really does pay to beemployed by someone else at times

 

for more discussion............