Need to know if this would work before I take gearbox out to look at flywheel

 

Not just any metal, but plain old iron. Stainless, copper, aluminum etc will not work. You can check iron with a magnet if unsecure. When iron is approaching the CPS the voltage should be positive and wise versa. A stationary iron object close to the CPS will not give a reading.

 

If the coil pack pulse wires show a constant earth with the ignition on then, will a piece of iron approaching the CPS show on my test lamp connected to the coil pack plug? (I'm testing to see whether the CPS is picking up anything as it doesn't seem to be getting anything from the flywheel)

 

Use a multimeter set to AC volts and connect it to the 2 terminals on the CPS after disconnecting it from the car. Wave a peice of iron in front of it and it will read an AC voltage, the faster you wave it the higher the voltage. You need to wave it close to the sensor though.

 

Right, been over to the car again today, this is what I'm doing:

Ignition on

CPS removed from block and held in my hand (obviously still plugged in!)

Waving CPS around the block (cast iron) and anything else that might be iron

Nothing happening!

Perhaps the things I'm using aren't iron, can anyone give me an example of something that would work? Most things I can think of are steel. Why does it have to be Iron?

And if I do wave something iron in front of the CPS, will that "fool" the system into thinking the flywheel is turning and give a reading? I have a test lamp that shows polarity and reads earth on the relevant pins of the plug (the coil windings I understand) so this should flicker or pulse as I wave iron in front of the CPS right?

 

steel will work just the same, as long as its a ferrous metal , i.e steel , iron , NOT ALLUMINIUM !

the voltage should also change as the item you bringing near to the sensor gets close, if it is what you say its just a hall effect sensor thats if it only has two wires and is a bog standard sensor. ido know of two wires that are actually active sensors , but they are relativly new technology on cars for the purpose of sensing gaps/missing teeth/recognition purposes

 

Yup its just a two wire sensor supposedly triggered by the lug on the flywheel. I'm at a complete loss, I've replaced all the electrical components, (EDIS module, ECU, entire loom, crank sensor, coil pack, plugs, leads) and still nothing reading on the tester connected to the coil pack plug. The EDIS is getting a good live feed and the coil pack plug shows a live and the relevant earths. Just cant get any life from it as regards a spark or a pulse on the test lamp.

 

you won't get any spark activity (unless you are extremely lucky) by just waving metal in front of the sensor, the management needs to see the correct pattern of pulses in the right order before it will output spark.. there is a tiny chance you may just manage to randomly create a pattern that the ECU recognises, but it would be sooo unlikely.
If you want to test the CPS sensor on it's own, then do exactly as Daz says, and you will get some sense. Any iron/steel "magnetic" metal object will do, and as Mark says, moving metal quickly TOWARDS and AWAY from the sensor will have the same affect as waving it in front, if that's easier..
it's not a "hall-effect" sensor however, it's actually a variable reluctance sensor, but that's only a point of accuracy and won't affect your investigations..

 

AAH! I see now waving metal in front of the sensor will test the sensor itself, however, I've been trying to 'fool' the whole system into thinking that me waving a peice of metal in front of the CPS is actually the flywheel going past it and hoping to get a result

What does the ECU take into account when putting a spark out then? I thought my test would have worked as all the flywheel does is pass something over the sensor every revolution?

 

yes indeed it does, but it passes "stuff" in front of the sensor in a pre-defined pattern there are 36 tooth positions on the flywheel with one missing at TDC, the ECU looks for this pattern to be able to identify engine position so that it can then provide correct ignition timing etc.
Just by waving metal at the sensor you have virtually no chance of duplicating this pattern of events by chance, and until the ecu has seen the missing tooth gap in the right timeframe with respect to the other teeth it will do nothing.

 

In that case I reckon it must be the flywheel at fault, as stated before, everything has been replaced and this is the only area I havent tried. Now I understand more about how the system works I feel even more sure it must be that.
When the car first stopped running with the previous owner it was towed in to the garage and left, it just stopped one day and never went again. Any ideas on how this could have been caused by the flywheel? If just one of the teeth was damaged or missing would that be likely to stop the system from sparking altogether? From the descriptions above it would seem so.

 

Word of advice, a solid steel object can't fail....I.E flywheel. Unless it's been damaged but there should be nothing in the bell housing to damage the flywheel.

Is it on the Fiesta in your avatar? If so, remove the starter and inspect it though that gap and rotate the engine round at least 1 revolution.

 

it's very unlikely that the flywheel will suddenly make the car stop - the teeth are cast into the flywheel most unlikely to get damaged, let alone end up with a tooth missing..
Have you tested the sensor as described above yet?

 

No just tried different sensors, I will do this test next time I go over to the car. I'm back to square 1 again then, had this car months now and tried everything! I will test it but I'm convinced its not that as its brand new and I have 2 second hand ones I have also tried

Yup thats the little !

 

ok.. may be time to start looking elsewhere - wiring fault, fuse, immobiliser problem?

 

All good points but have already changed the entire loom (underbonnet loom first, no luck then whole loom changed) all fuses are ok and the immobiliser was removed when the old loom was in as it was thought this might have been the cause. The EDIS system seems to have all the necessary live feeds and earths but the thing just point blank refuses to spark

 

ok, going back a step...
The EDIS system will operate in limphome mode independently of the ECU, all it requires is 12V supply and ground connections, proper signal from the crank sensor and coil connection. Under these conditions it runs at a fixed advance of 10deg BTDC.

With a multimeter set to measure AC volts, test the output voltage from the crank sensor whilst cranking the engine - this will test that the flywheel/crank sensor are producing signal - expect to see at least 5-10V AC.
Check all the wiring to the EDIS module 12-way connector - here's a diagram of what you should have.. (don't worry about the PIP and SAW signals, they gooff to the ECU. "VR" in this diagram is the crank position sensor)

 

Check the bell housing bolts are tight! I have had this before, when you look at the signal from the CPS on a scope you see the correct pattern however, onto the signal is interference caused by the loose bolts! The ECU does not recognise the signal due to the interferance so will gove no pulse to the coil pack or injectors.

 

Nice one people! 2 things I havent tried yet, next time I'm over with the car I'll do that for sure. Should at least narrow things down a bit!

 

UPDATE:
Yup, they are all tight


Been over today, tried the multimeter on the crank sensor.
I have 2 sensors, 1 brand new and 1 second hand but known to be good.

Both sensors gave a reading when connected to the multimeter and passed near metal, the quicker I waved the sensor in front of the metal the higher the reading went.
When I fitted the sensor back on the engine and cranked the engine over there was no reading. Same for the other one when I tried that.

So it seems I have 2 good crank sensors but neither of them will read a signal from the flywheel. Any ideas why?

 

just something else to throw in the pot, u said uve changed EVERYTHING electrical, and whats the odds of getting more faulty parts...therefore my words of wisdom...........

FUEL PUMP

Is it working? if not............fuel pump relay........fuse? fuel pump fooked (Sl*g of a job, built into the sender in the tank) i coulodnt actually see if u said u get a spark cranking the car with the plug removed.

If u get a spark its gota be a fuelling problem....uve done everything else!

let me know

 

Oh just reading back over, if you are sure that the CPS isnt producing a signal on the block.....check the flywheel as someone else rightly said....through the starter hole with it removed F*CK taking the gearbox off. If what u said is correct however, i'd put money on it the flywheel is ok u'll never damage that, chances are the blots have come loose and the flywheel has moved so its not close enough to the sensor!

but as i said....let me know if ive helped