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some advice on s2 300 hp engine

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Old 09-07-2005, 05:03 PM
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fredy
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Default some advice on s2 300 hp engine

hi to all i would like to build an s2 300HP engine and i have a qustion
can i raise the C.R to 1:8.5 or 1:9 on a cvh engine and the engine block and the head will resist that load?? i am asking thet because i need to order pistons and i dont know what c.r to ask

if will be other ideas how to do a 300 hp engine it will be great

thans to all
Old 09-07-2005, 10:27 PM
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cuvner
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urrgh, think maybe that much bhp u wld need big boost so lower compression wld be needed! think u wld get detenation, u want a 2.0l zetec, bored out to 2.1, steel rods forged pistons the cranks gd for 300bhp so is the cams so u just need to bolt on ur manifold get some decent management, omex or watever, hybrid turbo t35 maybe bigger!! but then ur transmision will need looking at standarb box wld not last long and ur gunna av no grip at the wheels watever, think 250bhp/270lbs torq is more sensible, the world is ur oyster!!
Old 10-07-2005, 12:52 PM
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DazC
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You are better off lowering the compression down to around 7.5:1. The CVH is 8.3: as standard. Lowering the compression will alow you to run a higher dynamic compression ratio while reducing the risk of detonation and reduced heat as you can run more ignition advance. You will lose a little off boost torque by lowering the compression but I beleive it is better to reduce it rather than raise it.

300bhp from the CVH is certainly possible but you will need steel H section con rods.
Old 10-07-2005, 04:27 PM
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fredy
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Default cvh

thanks to all but if i will lower the c.r to 1:7.5 i will need to raise the boost but if i will raise the c.r with the same boost i will produce more power also take all the hondas in the u.s they all run on 1:9 to 1:11.5 c.r with 2 bar of boost
Old 11-07-2005, 07:25 PM
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If you could keep the comp ratio high it would produce more power and have a much harder/viscious power delivery but you would need to run stand alone management to get a precise setup and high octane(race fuel)At this level it would become very volitile and even steel crank and rods wouldnt take abuse the slighest imperfection in fuelling/ignition would create. 9:1 is runable at 300 bhp but reliablity or even life expectancy of that engine would be close to nothing.
Old 11-07-2005, 09:22 PM
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With high compression, you will need to run higher boost pressures to create similar power to a low compression equivelent engine as you will need to wind back the ignition timing loads (and run your engine very hot) as you will have a vastly increased dynamic compression ratio.

Have a read of this...

In turbocharged engines there is a fine balancing act when it comes to making a lot of power on low octane fuel. In most cases, ignition timing must be retarded as the boost pressure rises above a critical point and finally there reaches a further point where the engine simply loses power. If the timing was not retarded with increasing boost, destructive preignition or detonation would occur. Normal combustion is characterized by smooth, even burning of the fuel/air mixture. Detonation is characterized by rapid, uncontrolled temperature and pressure rises more closely akin to an explosion. It's effects are similar to taking a hammer to the top of your pistons.

Most engines make maximum power when peak cylinder pressures are obtained with the crankshaft around 15 degrees after TDC. Experimentation with increasing boost and decreasing timing basically alters where and how much force is produced on the crankshaft. Severely retarded timing causes high exhaust gas temperatures which can lead to preignition and exhaust valve and turbo damage.

We have a hypothetical engine. It's a 2.0L, 4 valve per cylinder, 4 cylinder type with a 9.0 to 1 compression ratio and it's turbocharged. On the dyno, the motor puts out 200hp at 4psi boost with the timing at the stock setting of 35 degrees on 92 octane pump gas with an air/fuel ratio of 14 to 1. We retard the timing to 30 degrees and can now run 7psi and make 225hp before detonation occurs. Now we richen the mixture to 12 to 1 AFR and find we can get 8psi and 235 hp before detonation occurs. The last thing we can consider is to lower the compression ratio to 7 to1. Back on the dyno, we can now run 10psi with 33 degrees of timing with an AFR of 12 to 1 and we get 270 hp on the best pull.

We decide to do a test with our 9 to 1 compression ratio using some 118 octane leaded race gas. The best pull is 490 hp with 35 degrees of timing at 21 psi. On the 7 to 1 engine, we manage 560 hp with 35 degrees of timing at 25psi. To get totally stupid, we fit some larger injectors and remap the EFI system for126 octane methanol. At 30psi we get 700hp with 35 degrees of timing!

While all of these figures are hypothetical, they are very representative of the gains to be had using high octane fuel. Simply by changing fuel we took the 7 to 1 engine from 270 to 700 hp.

From all of the changes made, we can deduce the effect certain changes on hp;

Retarding the ignition timing allows slightly more boost to be run and gain of 12.5%.

Richening the mixture allows slightly more boost to be run for a small hp gain however, past about 11.5 to 1 AFR most engines will start to lose power and even encounter rich misfire.

Lowering the compression ratio allows more boost to be run with less retard for a substantial hp gain.

Increasing the octane rating of the fuel has a massive effect on maximum obtainable hp.

We have seen that there are limits on what can be done running pump gas on an engine with a relatively high compression ratio. High compression engines are therefore poor candidates for high boost pressures on pump fuel. On high octane fuels, the compression ratio becomes relatively unimportant. Ultimate hp levels on high octane fuel are mainly determined by the physical strength of the engine. This was clearly demonstrated in the turbo Formula 1 era of a decade ago where 1.5L engines were producing up to 1100 hp at 60psi on a witches brew of aromatics. Most fully prepared street engines of this displacement would have trouble producing half of this power for a short time, even with many racing parts fitted.

Most factory turbocharged engines rely on a mix of relatively low compression ratios, mild boost and a dose of ignition retard under boost to avoid detonation. Power outputs on these engines are not stellar but these motors can usually be seriously thrashed without damage. Trying to exceed the factory outputs by any appreciable margins without higher octane fuel usually results in some type of engine failure. Remember, the factory spent many millions engineering a reasonable compromise in power, emissions, fuel economy and reliability for the readily available pump fuel. Despite what many people think, they probably don't know as much about this topic as the engineers do.
Old 12-07-2005, 07:00 AM
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fredy
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Default cvh

thanks for the artical its very inersting wher did you get it from i think i dicided to go low but what should i do to the engine to run methanol is it safe??
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