Cosworth ecu question
08-03-2018, 08:05 PM
#1
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
Cosworth ecu question
Hi, I have a mk2 escort running a cossie Motor, I’m in the process of buying an msd chip but before I order I want to check which ecu I have, I’m assuming it’s an L6 but how can I confirm this, is there a visable way to tell the difference between an L6 and an L1 I can’t imagine its an L8,
Any help would be very much appreciated,
Many thanks
John
Any help would be very much appreciated,
Many thanks
John
09-03-2018, 08:47 AM
#4
10K+ Poster!!
I think you would be better off getting the car to them for a live map as it will be bespoke to the car. You can get the car delivered if you dont want to drive it there.
09-03-2018, 12:12 PM
#5
So by my estimation transport and live map that is 1k gone.
I guess it comes down to cost and if you are able to set the car up correctly yourself.
Paul
Last edited by costina; 09-03-2018 at 12:13 PM.
09-03-2018, 12:45 PM
#6
Hi John,
A quick image of the ECU internals on here and most people will tell you what you have.
The case can be changed, so we need to see internals really. Although a small yellow CO screw will confirm a L1.
From there, everything you need to spec up a mail order cal can be found in this questionaire: (This is L8. there is a L1/6/P8 one too)
https://shop.motorsport-developments...-ecu-421-p.asp
A quick image of the ECU internals on here and most people will tell you what you have.
The case can be changed, so we need to see internals really. Although a small yellow CO screw will confirm a L1.
From there, everything you need to spec up a mail order cal can be found in this questionaire: (This is L8. there is a L1/6/P8 one too)
https://shop.motorsport-developments...-ecu-421-p.asp
09-03-2018, 04:00 PM
#7
10K+ Poster!!
Stu, do you tend to see much difference with a live map compared to a generic chip where the car has different inlet, exhaust and intercooler etc?
Trending Topics
09-03-2018, 05:25 PM
#8
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
Thank you so much everyone for all your help and advice, I’ll take it out tomorrow and have a look, I’ll remove the cover and get a picture up as well,
The engine’s only running 803’s with 3 bar map sensor, t34.48, big intercooler but it’s Plenty enough for a mk2 Escort,
I’ve also got a 2wd sapphire Cosworth with the same set up and bought an msd 340 chip at the 2016, fitted it and took it to a place called sanspeed, they set it up on their rolling road with 21psi and both them and i was very happy with the results, so that’s what I want to do with the mk2,
Thanks again
Kind regards
John
The engine’s only running 803’s with 3 bar map sensor, t34.48, big intercooler but it’s Plenty enough for a mk2 Escort,
I’ve also got a 2wd sapphire Cosworth with the same set up and bought an msd 340 chip at the 2016, fitted it and took it to a place called sanspeed, they set it up on their rolling road with 21psi and both them and i was very happy with the results, so that’s what I want to do with the mk2,
Thanks again
Kind regards
John
09-03-2018, 06:29 PM
#9
That will be more than enough in a mk2. Done a few 803 conversions all on T34/48 most I have seen is 360bhp also had 332bhp on mine with 109k on the clock.
Done a mates and he had 347bhp.
I have a msd chip and coilpack conversion etc etc on a T34/48 stage 2 turbo with cutback blades on 55lb black making 421bhp and 418lbft.
Done a mates and he had 347bhp.
I have a msd chip and coilpack conversion etc etc on a T34/48 stage 2 turbo with cutback blades on 55lb black making 421bhp and 418lbft.
12-03-2018, 11:07 AM
#10
Big differences in a great many cases.
It all depends how close what you told us you had, resembles reality.
If your spec is exactly what you thought it was, and you have it all setup just how I want it to be done, the cal will be as good as it can get safely via mail order.
We have operated this way for 20yrs with very very few issues.
You have to remember that an off the shelf calibration for a speed density ECU has a whole bunch of compromises built into it to take into account that the customer, generally, has no way to check AFR and probably won't even bother with a boost gauge and just turn it up until it feels fast. (Yes - I hear that all the time)
The problem is, so many YB's are NOT quite what the owner thinks they are... So as default, a mail order cal is a little richer than optimum, has a little less spark than optimum and has breakpoints that allow the customer to mess about with his boost a bit without blowing the thing to bits.
With regards wierd mods...
Exhaust and intercoolers arent making huge differences to the calibration, but inlets and throttle bodies certainly do, usually, the best gains are in the stat, run and driveability ranges as the plenums completely screw up the gas speed and the manifold depression. (Normally for the worse)
But its not just that, its spec changes you didn't know you had, low compression, light head porting, cams, cam timing, cam lobe wear, fuel pressure. Literally, everything has an effect on these old speed density ECU's as they are absolutely dumb.
They know only temperature and pressure - they have no concept of flow. They "think" a standard head, cams and intake with a T3 is exactly the same as a huge ported head, BD16s and a GTX35. Unless we tell them we need more fuel at 1bar boost (Like 400bhp worth), they will still supply the fuel for 260BHP.
Every little thing that affects airflow, affects the calibrations suitability and ultimately, the vehicles driveability and throttle response. So dialling it in live until we stop making tractive effort and our AFR is right where we would like it can bring big improvements to some calibrations that, on paper "should" have been fine mail order.
Also, the mail order calibrations are 13x16 fuel maps and 8x16 spark tables as per Weber standards. Our latest firmware we use for all our live maps are 16x16 fuel and 11x16 spark with improved idle control strategy in the firmware that is FAR better than the old one and "usually" eliminates cold idle hunting completely which is a big plus for most owners.
As with all things, a lot of this is just an evolution of a system. As time goes on things get refined and ultimately, passed down to the customer.
As you will see from this absolutely pornographic movie, the AFR on these old 1980s Weber systems can be every bit as perfect as a standalone unit if the time is taken to live map them properly. Got to love this MK1... and I am generally not an Old Schol fan, but this car is something else!
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 12-03-2018 at 02:22 PM.
12-03-2018, 01:54 PM
#12
Yes mate,
Big differences in a great many cases.
It all depends how close what you told us you had, resembles reality.
If your spec is exactly what you thought it was, and you have it all setup just how I want it to be done, the cal will be as good as it can get safely via mail order.
We have operated this way for 20yrs with very very few issues.
You have to remember that an off the shelf calibration for a speed density ECU has a whole bunch of compromises built into it to take into account that the customer, generally, has no way to check AFR and probably won't even bother with a boost gauge and just turn it up until it feels fast. (Yes - I hear that all the time)
The problem is, so many YB's are NOT quite what the owner thinks they are... So as default, a mail order cal is a little richer than optimum, has a little less spark than optimum and has breakpoints that allow the customer to mess about with his boost a bit without blowing the thing to bits.
With regards wierd mods...
Exhaust and intercoolers arent making huge differences to the calibration, but inlets and throttle bodies certainly do, usually, the best gains are in the stat, run and driveability ranges as the plenums completely screw up the gas speed and the manifold depression. (Normally for the worse)
But its not just that, its spec changes you didn't know you had, low compression, light head porting, cams, cam timing, cam lobe wear, fuel pressure. Literally, everything has an effect on these old speed density ECU's as they are absolutely dumb.
They know only temperature and pressure - they have no concept of flow. They "think" a standard head, cams and intake with a T3 is exactly the same as a huge ported head, BD16s and a GTX35. Unless we tell them we need more fuel at 1bar boost (Like 400bhp worth), they will still supply the fuel for 260BHP.
Every little thing that affects airflow, affects the calibrations suitability and ultimately, the vehicles driveability and throttle response.
Also, the mail order calibrations are 13x16 fuel maps and 8x16 spark tables as per Weber standards. Our latest firmware we use for all our live maps are 16x16 fuel and 11x16 spark with improved idle control strategy in the firmware that is FAR better than the old one and "usually" eliminates cold idle hunting completely which is a big plus for most owners.
As with all things, a lot of this is just an evolution of a system. As time goes on things get refined and ultimately, passed down to the customer.
As you will see from this pornographic movie... The AFR on these old 1980s Weber systems can be every bit as perfect as a standalone unit if the time is taken to live map them properly.
Big differences in a great many cases.
It all depends how close what you told us you had, resembles reality.
If your spec is exactly what you thought it was, and you have it all setup just how I want it to be done, the cal will be as good as it can get safely via mail order.
We have operated this way for 20yrs with very very few issues.
You have to remember that an off the shelf calibration for a speed density ECU has a whole bunch of compromises built into it to take into account that the customer, generally, has no way to check AFR and probably won't even bother with a boost gauge and just turn it up until it feels fast. (Yes - I hear that all the time)
The problem is, so many YB's are NOT quite what the owner thinks they are... So as default, a mail order cal is a little richer than optimum, has a little less spark than optimum and has breakpoints that allow the customer to mess about with his boost a bit without blowing the thing to bits.
With regards wierd mods...
Exhaust and intercoolers arent making huge differences to the calibration, but inlets and throttle bodies certainly do, usually, the best gains are in the stat, run and driveability ranges as the plenums completely screw up the gas speed and the manifold depression. (Normally for the worse)
But its not just that, its spec changes you didn't know you had, low compression, light head porting, cams, cam timing, cam lobe wear, fuel pressure. Literally, everything has an effect on these old speed density ECU's as they are absolutely dumb.
They know only temperature and pressure - they have no concept of flow. They "think" a standard head, cams and intake with a T3 is exactly the same as a huge ported head, BD16s and a GTX35. Unless we tell them we need more fuel at 1bar boost (Like 400bhp worth), they will still supply the fuel for 260BHP.
Every little thing that affects airflow, affects the calibrations suitability and ultimately, the vehicles driveability and throttle response.
Also, the mail order calibrations are 13x16 fuel maps and 8x16 spark tables as per Weber standards. Our latest firmware we use for all our live maps are 16x16 fuel and 11x16 spark with improved idle control strategy in the firmware that is FAR better than the old one and "usually" eliminates cold idle hunting completely which is a big plus for most owners.
As with all things, a lot of this is just an evolution of a system. As time goes on things get refined and ultimately, passed down to the customer.
As you will see from this pornographic movie... The AFR on these old 1980s Weber systems can be every bit as perfect as a standalone unit if the time is taken to live map them properly.
Mine has always hunted from cold and I have always believed the ISCV to be faulty.
Years ago you quoted for an EPROM, but I decided against it on this premise.
Martin
Last edited by martysmartie; 12-03-2018 at 01:55 PM.
12-03-2018, 02:24 PM
#13
Great post as always, I have heard that idle strategy is challenging on the early ECU's due to the reason you mention and on the P8 it improved?
Mine has always hunted from cold and I have always believed the ISCV to be faulty.
Years ago you quoted for an EPROM, but I decided against it on this premise.
Martin
Mine has always hunted from cold and I have always believed the ISCV to be faulty.
Years ago you quoted for an EPROM, but I decided against it on this premise.
Martin
12-03-2018, 06:28 PM
#15
New Owner
12-03-2018, 07:25 PM
#17
10K+ Poster!!
Thanks for the full reply, Stu. Really appreciate it and you explained it all really well.
24-03-2018, 05:01 PM
#21
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Thread Starter
Finally got around to checking and it is an L6 so thanks again for all your help, it’s such a good site with such knowledgeable friendly people, I’ll order a new chip now Stu,
Kind regards
John
Kind regards
John
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
delbee1
Ford Escort RS Cosworth
11
07-11-2014 06:30 PM
rickbartlett
Ford RS Turbo Parts for Sale
2
27-04-2011 11:00 AM
daxman
Ford Sierra/Sapphire/RS500 Cosworth
5
27-03-2009 05:18 PM
Orange Peel
Technical help Q & A
3
26-01-2006 10:11 AM