can somebody explain to me in simple terms what the advantages of this is and what it actually does.

 

basically allows full adjustment of camber,castor and toe in, whereas on a standard setup there is very little room for improvement, in fact theres bar none!

 

also there is NO movement in the joint ie. the spherical bearing allows the joint to pivot in all directions it needs to, but does not give at all like rubber, polyurethane and the like..
The downside is it consequently transfers a lot more noise and vibration.

 

so if u can adjust them all, why would u want to cos surely the car is set up for optimum all round use straight from the factor.

 

unfortunately not the case wixsy.. sierra rear beam is a good example - look what happens to the rear wheel angles on launching the car..
Exactly the reason that ZOO motorsport for example, are going to a lot of effort to make a rear beam assembly with decent geometry that works properly.

 

What are they doing then? its just that im refurbishing underneath,or just about to and if i'm going to get it all done would i be better off with one of their beams etc. how much r they,and is it a complete unit the axle and the semi-trailing arms etc

 

Things like rubber bushes wear with age too.. or if your cars been lowered then the geometery will be out. A rose joint will enable you to put the set-up back to how it should be, or how you want it to be.

 

well its lowered 25mm so does that mean the camber will be out?so by using rose-joint i could adjust that to put more tyre to the road.

 

yes thats right mate.

ask sean @ zoo for prices but for a complete rose-jointed rear end, incl beam and arms and set up properly you'd be looking at around 1k

 

where in essex r u mate?

 

A major drawback of converting to rose joints is that the bearings will only last 10 minutes in normal road use. They just aren't designed for these applications. Good quality ones cost a mint, and race cars use them to allow full adjustment of geometry and to control suspension compliance which occurs naturally with conventional car suspension.
If you want to optimise for road use, fit uprated bushes and have a play around with the adjustments that standard suspension allows. As an example, camber bolts are designed for this purpose and will help towards getting rid of the nasty understeer manufacturers build in.

 

i'm in basildon mate

there are many types of rose-joints mate, and they do last a hell of a lot longer than 10minutes, just depends on the product and the applied force/application

 

Think marco has been on rose jointed tca's and these have lasted for years on track and road as his is an everyday car

 

And I have been using them for the last 10 years with no problems....

 

Hey TJ,(NUTS Rus)
Your cars don't get far enough on a rally for the rose joints to get worn out !

Happy New year mate

Statesman

 

 

no reason at all for a rosejoint to wear out that quickly, if they are the right spec for the application and booted to stop the crap getting in.
There are a number of different types of joint with various materials used - use an oiled ptfe linered genuine rosejoint of a suitable size with a rubber boot, and it will last ages.
I used plain bronze linered joints (cheap but jenuine 'Rose') in the rear 5-link suspension on my old MK2 rallycar, which I used every day for 3 years, and they were never a problem - just kept them lubed, and rubber boots in good order.

Don't forget that cossie rear arms are fitted with spherical bearings from the factory, and there are plenty running around 15 years later which are perfectly ok..

 

Christ this is getting complicated. should i just renew all the bushes and leave it at that,its just i wanted to uprate it the best and most effecient way i could.

 

All down to cost at the emd of the day m8

 

dont be gay wixsy just do the conversion.

 

Cheers Rich for mentioning our Beam!!

As has been stated the rear suspension geometry is a long way from optimum. The standard setup suffers from a huge amount of camber change and bump steer (toe change) when the rear wheels move up and down. This basically results in the rear wheels steering slightly in the same direction as the fronts when you turn a corner. The result is understeer. Plus when a cossie launches the back drops and the car pulls away with only the inside edges of the tyres on the tarmac.

Our beam has completly revised pickup points that eradicate these problems.

Both the inner and outer joints are fully adjustable and rose jointed. We use the rose joints from a NASCAR, so they are big and bloody strong. As has been covered above, if a good quality joint is used (with or without boots) they will last for years. I have run a completely rose jointed front end for over two years and 10,000 miles with absolutly no wear in the joints what so ever and I did not bother with the boots. We do however supply boots with our rear beams if you require them and they are a worth while procortion. Hiwever if you don't look after the boots, water gets in and is held against the joint and the result is obviously corrosion. This doesn't happen with out the boots as the joint has a better chance to dry out.

The main reason I would say for rose joints is there ability to stay bloody put. as has been stated a rubber bush gives and throws your geometry right out, in any accelerating / brakeing or turning scenario.

For example the main reason a standard car has slight toe in from the factory is to allow for the give in the bushes as you are driving along. The manufacturer is taking into account the amount of flex in the bush so that the wheels become parallel under normal driving. Obviously with a rose jointed setup, everything stays put. You set your geometry and it bloody stays where it should under all conditions.

Our beams are £750 by the way.

Sean..

 

I'd imagine you are using joints with liners in them Sean? these are MUCH less prone to wear from crap getting in (because it can't, the ball is a tight fit in the liner) so as you say do not need the boot. I was being a cheapskate and using straight bronze bearing'd rod ends, which have finite clearance and need lubrication

 

......

 

The zoo Beam



PJay

 

Superb Sean about time this problem was looked into, looks great, i will get saving!

 

We have some better more detailed pictures coming out soon that we had taken by a propper photographer. But I guess you get the jist from the picture above of the half put together mock up beam in the pic.

Sean..