Ways to combat detonation?
18-11-2005, 09:00 AM
#42
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
All that garbage about grammar has gone! 
New plugs are in. Installation of new clutch should be finished today.
Should be able to have a good mapping session on sat morning.
Depending on how the mapping goes we should be able to get on a set of rollers @ LPS for a power run at lunch time.
If we do i will try and post up a copy of the run with some screen shots of the fuel and ign maps and maybe datalogs. Prob be like putting myself in front of a firing sqaud, but any advice (as long as it is constructive) will be most welcome.
Stu, I will let you know what difference the plug change makes to the amount of advance i can run. I think it was a wise safety mod that i had overlooked even if i can't run any more advance. Cheers.
Doug.
New plugs are in. Installation of new clutch should be finished today.
Should be able to have a good mapping session on sat morning.
Depending on how the mapping goes we should be able to get on a set of rollers @ LPS for a power run at lunch time.
If we do i will try and post up a copy of the run with some screen shots of the fuel and ign maps and maybe datalogs. Prob be like putting myself in front of a firing sqaud, but any advice (as long as it is constructive) will be most welcome.
Stu, I will let you know what difference the plug change makes to the amount of advance i can run. I think it was a wise safety mod that i had overlooked even if i can't run any more advance. Cheers.
Doug.
18-11-2005, 09:03 AM
#43
If we do i will try and post up a copy of the run with some screen shots of the fuel and ign maps and maybe datalogs. Prob be like putting myself in front of a firing sqaud, but any advice (as long as it is constructive) will be most welcome.
Stu, I will let you know what difference the plug change makes to the amount of advance i can run. I think it was a wise safety mod that i had overlooked even if i can't run any more advance. Cheers.
18-11-2005, 09:14 AM
#45
10K+ Poster!!
How thick is the decomp plate?
I've got the same engine down stairs in pieces, I could have have a look at wether its going to make an obvious problem if you like.
alex
I've got the same engine down stairs in pieces, I could have have a look at wether its going to make an obvious problem if you like.
alex
18-11-2005, 09:20 AM
#46
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Anyone with nothing constructive to say can be deleted from the thread, fook em pal.
Cheers, will up date sat and post up all the data in works time on monday!
Cheers, will up date sat and post up all the data in works time on monday!
21-11-2005, 08:06 AM
#48
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Right,
Here goes for an update.
After changing the plugs and the new clutch being fitted we decided to crack on with an early morning mapping session on sat.
How early? The MAT sensor was reading 1 degree C at about 0700 hours!
Still, at least alowed us to do a bit of work on the cold start enrichments
We also re set the temp that the closed loop kicked in.
We took it out for a spin. Everything was going well running on the previous ignition map. This was the one with low advance figures but no det.
The sensible thing to do at this point would have been to map in some more advance to test the effects of the colder plugs but......
knowing that there was a chance off a rr run at lunch we decided to chase numbers and go for some more boost!
Actuator was adjusted and we went from 7 to 11 psi (176kpa).
The ignition map only needed the slightest tweek at a couple of high load/low rpm sites to have no det at 11psi so maybe the colder plugs were helping?
At this point we went for a huuuge (8 quid each) fry up breakfast and then headed for the rollers.
When we turned up at LPS there were a couple of Loti there, an Exige and an Esprit.
The Esprit was just having a run on the rollers. It was a citrine yellow/green L reg 300GT. Apperently something to do with a le-mans car and they only made 64? The last four pot turbo esprit. Had huge 315 tyres on the back.
Owner looked very chuffed when it made 298bhp with a bar of boost.
So we loaded our car on the rollers.
At this point i must confess to telling a small fib The engine in qustion is a S14 and not a 318is.
Here is a picture of the lump ready to go.
To cut a long story short, she made 296.5bhp on 11psi. Lotus owner who had been looking down his nose at a shonky old D reg BMW was very supprised
I thought it was running to rich so i backed some fuel off at the top end but it mad no difference to the figures so we left it rich.
Dyno graph and ignition map and fuel map will follow shortly.
Doug.
Here goes for an update.
After changing the plugs and the new clutch being fitted we decided to crack on with an early morning mapping session on sat.
How early? The MAT sensor was reading 1 degree C at about 0700 hours!
Still, at least alowed us to do a bit of work on the cold start enrichments
We also re set the temp that the closed loop kicked in.
We took it out for a spin. Everything was going well running on the previous ignition map. This was the one with low advance figures but no det.
The sensible thing to do at this point would have been to map in some more advance to test the effects of the colder plugs but......
knowing that there was a chance off a rr run at lunch we decided to chase numbers and go for some more boost!
Actuator was adjusted and we went from 7 to 11 psi (176kpa).
The ignition map only needed the slightest tweek at a couple of high load/low rpm sites to have no det at 11psi so maybe the colder plugs were helping?
At this point we went for a huuuge (8 quid each) fry up breakfast and then headed for the rollers.
When we turned up at LPS there were a couple of Loti there, an Exige and an Esprit.
The Esprit was just having a run on the rollers. It was a citrine yellow/green L reg 300GT. Apperently something to do with a le-mans car and they only made 64? The last four pot turbo esprit. Had huge 315 tyres on the back.
Owner looked very chuffed when it made 298bhp with a bar of boost.
So we loaded our car on the rollers.
At this point i must confess to telling a small fib
The engine in qustion is a S14 and not a 318is.Here is a picture of the lump ready to go.
To cut a long story short, she made 296.5bhp on 11psi. Lotus owner who had been looking down his nose at a shonky old D reg BMW was very supprised
I thought it was running to rich so i backed some fuel off at the top end but it mad no difference to the figures so we left it rich.
Dyno graph and ignition map and fuel map will follow shortly.
Doug.
21-11-2005, 10:02 AM
#52
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Thanks,
Still got a bit of work to do. Struggling to get the accel fueling perfect. Still get the occasional bit of bogging when you stamp on the pedal in certain situations.
The old girl does fly. Tramped past another older Esprit (must have been a club meet?) whilst mapping earlier that morning at an indicated 150mph.
I was too busy looking at the laptop and listening to the det cans to be worried until I glanced over at the speedo.
Still got a bit of work to do. Struggling to get the accel fueling perfect. Still get the occasional bit of bogging when you stamp on the pedal in certain situations.
The old girl does fly. Tramped past another older Esprit (must have been a club meet?) whilst mapping earlier that morning at an indicated 150mph.
I was too busy looking at the laptop and listening to the det cans to be worried until I glanced over at the speedo.
21-11-2005, 06:41 PM
#55
PassionFord Post Whore!!
good topic,
Originally Posted by Garage19
Right,
To cut a long story short, she made 296.5bhp on 11psi.
I thought it was running to rich so i backed some fuel off at the top end but it mad no difference to the figures so we left it rich.
Doug.
To cut a long story short, she made 296.5bhp on 11psi.
I thought it was running to rich so i backed some fuel off at the top end but it mad no difference to the figures so we left it rich.
Doug.
wot fuelin did you change from and too?
22-11-2005, 10:36 AM
#58
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by M K
lovely looking bmw doug,,,,,,,,,,
well done on the home mapping skills mate,,,,,
hows your kit car coming along mate
marc
well done on the home mapping skills mate,,,,,
hows your kit car coming along mate
marc
When is the fiesta going to be on the road?
22-11-2005, 10:42 AM
#60
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Greg, who runs Hanger 111, the Lotus shop at LPS just e-mailed me these photos.
How much of a plum do i look!
And the dyno sheet from the run.
Will try and post a copy of fuel/ign maps when i figure out how to capture a screen shot and turn it into a jpeg????
How much of a plum do i look!
And the dyno sheet from the run.
Will try and post a copy of fuel/ign maps when i figure out how to capture a screen shot and turn it into a jpeg????
22-11-2005, 02:50 PM
#67
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Ok, here is the ignition map we are running in the BMW.
Note the low advance figures at mid rpm high load.
Load figures are in kpa. For those not used to working in kpa a quick explanation:
< 100 = vacum
100 = atmosphere
200 = 1 bar of boost
At the moment we are not running any more than 175 kpa (11psi).
Any comments welcome.
Cheers,
Doug.
Note the low advance figures at mid rpm high load.
Load figures are in kpa. For those not used to working in kpa a quick explanation:
< 100 = vacum
100 = atmosphere
200 = 1 bar of boost
At the moment we are not running any more than 175 kpa (11psi).
Any comments welcome.
Cheers,
Doug.
22-11-2005, 03:18 PM
#70
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Stu,
CR is 8.7 engine is 2300cc.
Not exactly sure what you mean by turbine ratio. Can you explain?
It has a .63 exaust housing with a stock 4x4 turbine wheel if that helps?
Other things that you night want to know:
The engine has quite an oversquare bore/stroke ratio and runs a fairly large 93.5ish mm bore.
It once was NA of course so still has NA cams with loads of overlap. Chain driven cams so vernier wheels are expensive/rare/tricky for us to make.
I think the NA cams might contribute to a relativly low dynamic CR?
Cheers.
Engine has quite a high
CR is 8.7 engine is 2300cc.
Not exactly sure what you mean by turbine ratio. Can you explain?
It has a .63 exaust housing with a stock 4x4 turbine wheel if that helps?
Other things that you night want to know:
The engine has quite an oversquare bore/stroke ratio and runs a fairly large 93.5ish mm bore.
It once was NA of course so still has NA cams with loads of overlap. Chain driven cams so vernier wheels are expensive/rare/tricky for us to make.
I think the NA cams might contribute to a relativly low dynamic CR?
Cheers.
Engine has quite a high
22-11-2005, 03:24 PM
#71
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by GARETH T
maybe zero degrees isnt zero?
22-11-2005, 03:27 PM
#73
Professional Waffler
Originally Posted by Garage19
Originally Posted by GARETH T
maybe zero degrees isnt zero?
22-11-2005, 03:30 PM
#74
The map looks fine, other than a lack of progression in the lower speed advance maps. All that will cost you is low down torque.
The figures still look higher than i expected you would get away with though, but if they work they work, like you say, the overlap may mean your not filling the cylinders as well as the specs suggest.
Job welldone if its all working
The figures still look higher than i expected you would get away with though, but if they work they work, like you say, the overlap may mean your not filling the cylinders as well as the specs suggest.
Job welldone if its all working
22-11-2005, 03:32 PM
#75
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by GARETH T
maybe zero degrees isnt zero?
Don't think it is out but will double check too be sure.
22-11-2005, 03:47 PM
#76
Well providing you are keeping the PCP late enough (ie no det) it MUST be all ok mate, TBH even if the sensor was misreading slightly it wouldnt matter anyway as its not like you are going to drop the map onto another car!
22-11-2005, 03:48 PM
#77
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
The map looks fine, other than a lack of progression in the lower speed advance maps. All that will cost you is low down torque.
The figures still look higher than i expected you would get away with though, but if they work they work, like you say, the overlap may mean your not filling the cylinders as well as the specs suggest.
Job welldone if its all working
The figures still look higher than i expected you would get away with though, but if they work they work, like you say, the overlap may mean your not filling the cylinders as well as the specs suggest.
Job welldone if its all working
There was no det up there and it revved out a lot better with some more advance.
Cheers Stu. Thanks for all your advice. The plug rating was a good catch that could of turned nasty
I'm still on the really steep bit of that learning curve
