edited to say:

"Dear Mods, if this is something we cannot discuss freely due to some sort of rule no one knew about that's suddenly be passed on pf then feel free to explain said rule and said thread will be changed to a hypothetical situation" cheers

all we know so far is that this happened on sunday late in the day



causing this



and this



unless anyone actually knows the full story and can recount the facts, in this instance it would appear that the internet didn't insure either car for track use and therefore each driver is left footing their own bill

so is this a case of "shit happens" or "someone should pay"?

 

You should pay.

Just because it's as good a reason as any.

 

How does the disclaimer go about track action being dangerous etc etc ?

 

feel free to discuss it on here dojj, this is nothing like the karlgate incident of a few years back, the way I see it if you go on track you need to take out appropriate cover if you choose not to then you dont have a leg to stand on

 

I was on track when that happened and you can see a big cloud of dust in the distance on my video.

The focus driver was driving like a twat and overtaking all over the place - this was the novice track session too so he should have been aware of inexperienced drivers.

He should pay imo but as its on track he doesnt legally have to - im sure he didnt mean to crash into the car so it should be classes as an accident.

Everyone is aware of the risks when going out on track and if y ou havent taken adequate cover then that is your own fault really

 

Taking a car on track carries an inherent risk. Assuming neither party had cover, I would say they chose to take that risk. Each driver should foot their own costs. It's sad, and an expensive lesson to both parties. Crashes on track can and do happen. No point crying over lack of cover after it's gone wrong. This is a big reason why I drive an older cheap car for throwing round a circuit.

Gutted for both the owners though must be heart breaking seeing your car like that.

 

Apparently, so the internet story goes - The Focus didn't brake in time and went over the grass into the side of the Fiesta who was minding their own business.

 

morally the focus driver appears to be at total fault, but every time any car goes on track you need the correct insurance cover not taking it out results in the things like this, so its a tough lesson but ignoring the risks is a niave thing to do

 

I wasnt covered on track this time but i was cautious and not driving like a Jamsport Cock

 

You just hope someone wants to pay or you have your own cover, I used to buy specific track day cover for about Ł160 per day but they would only cover some track day organisers and certain tracks. RMA days were fine as the level of driving was bang on.

I once saw a track prepared M3 E36 reverse and he had a hans device on, he whacked straight in to the front of an F40 waiting to go on track and popped a front light out...the bloke said he would pay...I bet that was an expensive day out!

I am not sure I would have gone out on that track with the poor quality of overtaking I saw going on. Too many spectators to show off to, you don't really get that on most track days. Loads of cars bunched up and overtaking on both sides at the same time, it is an accident waiting to happen.

 

Do F.1 Teams or any other teams on any tracks pay each other for the hundreds of thousands of pounds damage a single shunt can cause.

I'd would say definitely not.

So re the Incident, it's a Racing incident, hard luck on both drivers but they'll have to pay for their own damage.
And, they may also get a bill for clearing up the mess on the track.

 

Ref the standard of driving at Ford Fair it seems to have got progressively worse over the last few years. I think, and I await alternative views, the short sessions mean inexperienced drivers go on a mission to prove their ability and that of their car often exceeding the limits of both.

 

It's the risk you take going out on track. That's what track insurance is for

 

Very true, we were at Spa and a car dropped a load of oil, a chasing 360 Modena slid off in to the Armco...they literally wouldn't tow him away until he filled in a credit card slip for the Armco, clear up and tow back.

 

Same happened at combe many years ago with a tvr doing the same and then into a young lad in a saxo.

The mature tvr driver did not even ask if the lad was ok. Just stormed off in a huff. Many guys that day wanted to slap the tvr driver...

I won't even go on a parade lap now.....

 

especially not after karlgate

 

I remember track days at knockhill a few years back had no restrictions. you could turn up in a Ł50 scrapyard banger and race alongside evos and the like. the sort of guys with the banger wouldn't give a toss what they hit.

 

I have done a fair bit of racing and loads of track days and it's very simple - every driver signs the same disclaimer before you go on track, anything can happen and its your own choice to drive and your own liability regardless of what happens - even if a driver turns out to be a moron ignores the rules etc and then causes a crash - tough luck.

Days like this event have a much higher chance of an idiot being let lose on track so it would mak sense to organise some insurance to cover this - expect the excess to be 50% if you can find cover.

Shame to see the blue Fiesta written off due to bad driving but unless the Focus driver offers to help with costs then no hope.

 

bet that wasn't a cheap day out if the prices they charge are like what the ring do!

 

Driving on track was horrendous, I had a focus RS sweeping all over me through Luffield eventually overtaking me after I'd lost concentration trying to stay out of his way, I was in the gravel, it could well have been this crashed RS, then in my 2nd session going into Copse I was boxed in by 4 cars, luckily I had slowed enough to avoid any under & oversteer and hitting anyone

 

If I was to have a track day car it would have to be something worth no more than a grand or 1500 fully done as losing anything worth like 20k or 30k these focuses are worth unless your rich it could bankrupt you.

 

I think it was about Ł3,500 for the Armco alone. It wasn't bad

 

Anyone know what power the focus was? Looked bloody quick!!! Also the blue escort van went well too.

No way id be on the track with something worth that money with no insurance!!

 

Double post

 

That is incorrect, after a track day crash in 2010 and the following court case, precedent has been set already see http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...om+a+track+day

If it went to court the Fiesta driver could win a case for damages.

Steve

 

I was waiting on the jamsport (I think) fiestas running into someone who was just entering the track, they were driving like mongs as folk where trying to get on.

 

Link no worky

 

What's the story behind karlgate Steve?

 

Karlgate sounds interesting, I'll grab my Hobknobs

 

That's stupid. When you go on track you sign a disclaimer and no one should be held responsible for accidents, that's what insurance is for as shit happens, my old zt fiesta had track insurance as part of the policy, if I didn't have cover I wouldn't take it out as i wouldn't be able to cover the costs if I had a big crash
The same goes for the owner of the fiesta, he would be crazy taking a brand new car out on track with no type of insurance or being able to cover the costs of the repair,
We are all speculating that neither of them had insurance but haven't heard any thing from the owners of the cars, for all we know they could all be covered

 

I agree.
Did have a laugh when one of them got stuck in the gravel at the end of my session.
Just after overtaking me in the corner.
Yes,they are fast but how hard can it be to pay attention to the other people driving on the track.

I always make room for a faster car that wants to overtake.

 

I think disclaimers are pretty weak, it is generally understood that nobody reads them so hard to enforce. If you didn't have it explained to you by your solicitor then it is reasonable that you did not understand what you signed.....daft I know.

 

If the driver of the Focus was "Racing" on a public track day in the novice group I don't think we have to look much further with who to pin the blame on do we?

Going by the fact he was out on track with others who may well have been doing their very first track session, minding their own business, driving appropriately as instructed in the briefing before hand, overtaking in the correct areas, and following the strict rules set out to protect the inexperienced track drivers, all reports I can find and hear suggest the Focus driver was driving like a total tool, and in no way taking any consideration for the caliber of the other drivers he was out with, no doubt it was the only track time he could lay his hands on and should have been black flagged long before this incident happened.

I think some of the blame has to be with the organisers, if the reports are correct about his driving, why was he allowed to stay out there? It's the organisers jobs to ensure the safety of everyone out on track as much as they can, and it doesn't seem that was the case here.

 

Try again http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...om+a+track+day

Steve

 

there are plenty of things about karlgate here

essentially he was in his car, on a parade lap, doing 15 mph when he got hit from behind, it was caught on video, his car was written off, he bought another one, and posts endless pics of it on facebook

the similarities are that they were both "on track" and both got hit by "someone else"

but after that it's a totally different matter, hence my edit of the original post asking for confirmation that it was safe to post this

my question here is "what would you do in this situation?" "who is to blame?" "why don't you get track insurance when you go out on track?" "do you need track insruance if you aren't going on track for a track day?" etc

 

i've not got time to read 40+ pages of stuff but it would appear as follows:

car a span off
car b saw him spin, and sapn off as well
car b then hit car a
car b and car a both went their separate ways
car a's insurance company paid out
then the insurance company took driver b to county court
and won their costs
without the judge actually seeing any footage of said accident
which is typically what county courts do in my experience, make up their minds about shit before they've even spoken to the folks involved
in this case it would appear that driver b wasn't even aware he was being sued and didn't even turn up at the court to put his side of the story across

 

Ahh I think I saw a video about that on you tube iirc it was something like national day and there was a collision between two saff cossies because the driver at the back clearly was looking at the spectator stand and not in front lol.

 

 

yep thats karlgate silver saph driver was a total tit

that club has no control over pf and they were not involved with this incident hence why I said its fine to discuss as it does not have a superinjunction on it

 

Reading a bit more about the piston heads thread is clear that the car was insured and it was the insurance company, who can afford expensive lawyers, that claimed it the third party

If no one is insured it's a lot of work to go to court and stuff for the average individual