Chip

iTrader: (3)

Thought a few of you might be interested in this graph of the Michael Woodford Motorsport clio 172 turbo, which me and Mike from MWM (TankMike on here) have been mapping together as its on an ECU (mtech v4) that I'm very familiar with where as they were predominately Omex specialists before this conversion.

Standard bottom end still, shows how much potential these awesome little engines have




Not sure if we are going to exploit its potential to make some more or not at a later date, 260bhp was the target Mike had when designing the conversion so I think he is going to be happy to leave it there, but its a shame really as there was blatantly still loads more to come from mapping it with a little more boost and a little less safety margin if he would have let me!

Car feels absolutely fantastic at that power though I must say, totally effortless power delivery, just feels quick but without feeling like its trying, bit like a focus RS or similar. Just feels like that is how it should have come from the factory.

I wouldnt want to warranty the gearbox though, lol



Couple of pics of the car:

danneth

bet that is fun, how do is get the power down?

creator

looks good chip mate are you or mike letting the spec out yet? what turbo and boost ect?

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

Seems a little flat off boost though Chip? Nice amount of power in a little sardine tin though

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Dry road and its a little bit of a handful in 2nd but 3rd onwards its fine.

I think on track on 888s even 2nd will be no problem at all.

Would obviously benefit from a diff though.


Spec isnt a secret, its a 197 head to decompress it on the standard 172 bottom end. Turbo is a MWMSport variant of a focus RS one, ST intercooler (you can tell Mike's still obsessed with fords, lol) Mtech V4 ECU, off the shelf renault turbo manifold.

The lefthand scale doesnt start at zero mate, I'll try and get a better graph.
They arent great lower down in the standard car though TBH!

SiZT

I'm guessing it's a KTec manifold and T28? Cool little car anyway, I'm sure it'll be loads of fun

Edit: Just seen Chips post

Chip

iTrader: (3)

SizT, fitting a T28 is where people go wrong with these conversions IMHO, lower EBP and EGT done this way with the bigger turbo, and still gets going by 4K anyway.

Manifold is a reanult one that Ktec sell at about 3 times the price that renault sell them for, so yes its the same as theirs but not bought from them obviously.

SiZT

Thought it looked similar to a KTec one a friend bought

bluntys1rsturbo

really good engines once they are turbocharged iv been out in a few different specs clio turbos best one was a track prepped one running 246bhp was certainly showing up some big powered cars. still yet to go out in scoffs 749bhp beast but i will be in the new year

what power do you think you could of got it to if the fella had let you run a tad more boost etc? 270?

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Not just similar, same part.


IIRC prices for it are:
80 quid from renault
358 quid from KTEC

bluntys1rsturbo

that sounds about right for ktec they should wear black n white jumpers n masks

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I think its got 280 in it probably, but I can see why Mike wants to cap it at 260 consdering its a 100K mile old engine etc.

Scoff's must be absolutely mental, although TBH is of little interest to me as im more into track cars than drag cars.

I think 300bhp ish is about the right level for a FWD trackday car, so at 258 this is getting relatively close to that for very little money (mike's potentially going to be marketing it at about 3K-3.5K fitted and mapped as a full conversion) anymore seems to yield pretty little extra real average pace increase.

bluntys1rsturbo

i would agree that 300 is more than enough in a fwd track car, my r5gtt currently is at 230bhp and tbh i will de tune it on a smaller turbo for track use

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I believe they are planning to take it to bedford in the next couple of weeks to shake it down properly on track, they may decide to cap the power even lower after that if they do offer it as a conversion, one worry is that the turbo is relatively close to the brake lines, so heat build up on track is a potential issue if they start losing pedal feel, although we gave it a REAL hammering up and down the motorway last night with no issues.
Its specifically mapped around keeping EGT's relatively low (richer than optimum)

Longer term this car will be getting revised lines and forged internals and more power, but for now they're trying to find a decent conversion they can offer to customers that will give a significant power gain from the standard car, but still be affordable, which obviously things like having to reroute all the lines would put the cost up.

Its done about 2500 miles on the road now without any issues (well other than minor stuff like it killed a map sensor) since we first mapped it, so its looking good so far.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I'd quite like to do my mrs 172 TBH, it really does drive fantastically, but she doesnt want the aggro of no doubt killing boxes cause she uses it as a daily, so she has just ordered one of these RS2 inlets through Mike and Jack from MWM instead as they are the approvad fitting partners for Stone Automotive (used to be known as JMS)who make them:

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Nice going Chip. bet you are both pleased with the results

bluntys1rsturbo

chip iv heard them inlets can see some impressive gains you will have let me know what its like when its on and remapped

i think my next car will be a clio 172 turbo

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Jack and Mike from MWMSport are certainly over the moon with it, its done exactly what they had set out to, their original target of 260bhp has only been missed by 1.2bhp

Im very impressed with how it drives, but im not really pleased with it as such as other than sharing the mapping its naff all to do with me its entirely their project, so doesnt really matter to me if it works or not, LOL, I was just helping out as I owed Mike a favour and happen to be a lot more experienced on Mtech than he is.

If he sells the conversion though it will be on Omex I think as thats his personal preferance (one I dont share, I much prefer the Mtech), he just used an Mtech on this as when they found out about the 172 head volume being suitable for using to decompress the 172 engine they just happened to have an Mtech handy not an Omex at the time.

oriurbo

Right little handfull there.
I agree bet the boxes dont last long.

RS Grant

iTrader: (1)

That will be a real giggle on track with some proper tyres and a diff to help cope with the increase in power/torque.


Cheers,
Grant

Chip

iTrader: (3)

I believe they normally go from low 160s standard upto high 170s to mid 180s from what James Stone was saying, although my mrs wants to leave her cat in place to keep the car totally legal, so she might see more like low to mid170s.

Mike is currently working with Kenny up at Evolution chips to improve the map for the RS2 as the ones used at the moment (not done by mike or evolution, I think they came from RS tuning in fact) as although they make good power they have a few niggles lower down which when Mike got involved with them he was keen to iron out.

There is an audi/golf gearbox conversion being developed for sale at the moment and when that is done they will certainly seem like a really good option, if I wasnt already building a honda powered mk1 clio I would definately be doing it as well.
They just make such a cranking all round car.

bluntys1rsturbo

scoffs car uses and audi 6 speed gearbox i wonder if he is having anything to do with developing it?

not bad gains off them inlets then do they help the engine lower in the rev range ?

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

If you wanna try what they are feel like with a diff. You are welcome to try mind Chip.


Kinda gutted I went ITB's now!!!

but minds been awesomely reliable. Well it was until few weeks ago. On morning of a HowFast day and injector failed! poo.

How are gearboxes at 260bhp?

bluntys1rsturbo

im sure one of the car mags did a test on a clio 172 on track with and without a diff, the difference on even a mildly tuned car was impressive

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Now that sounds and looks a little pocket rocket... Weldone lads.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

"Tutur" is the guy who is doing the kits forum name IIRC, not sure if he has any links with Scoff or not, im not really in the mk2 clio scene myself, just hear stuff secondhand off Jack/Mike/My Mrs who are all into them.


Its about 10lbft for pretty much the whole rev range, which is quite a lot in the N/A world.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Was already planning to at Bedford in Feb TBH mate

I'll try and talk Jack into taking his along so you can have a drive of it.



You seem to have been getting plenty of enjoyment out of your car, so nothing to regret IMHO!



Will be interesting to see, if its revs killing them then it wont be an issue as generally in this car you're changing up by 6500rpm, but if its torque then with 250 lbft of torque versus the less than 150lbft standard car then its in trouble

Done 2500 road miles so far, but thats nothing like track use which is what you're interested in of course!

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Heard both good and bad things about those inlets Chip. Surprised it was something you went for to be honest. Aren't they like a grand?

Thought you would prefer to do something yourself with Bike bodies or a turbo.

Suppose if its your mrs car. Its easily fitted and removed. Works with std ECU etc...

Still suprised though.

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

to be honest.... fair play to em!

if you said to me I can get you a brand new cast manifold that will exactly fit your engine for just 358 squid. I would be like wow! thats cheap!

Ł80.... thats amazing! what its from? a Megane?

stonking

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The inlets are great, some of the early maps on them werent though so thats what people didnt like.
I'll be putting a map from Kenny onto Lesleys car though and can get any changes I need done as Kenny is great if you can give him qualified feedback, he'll happily tweak to suit as he is used to it due to evolutions having 100+ installers.

1700 ish fitted and mapped IIRC, but I wont be paying fitting, or mapping, and James from Stone Automotive owed me a favour so what Lesley is paying is less than they go for secondhand normally as he is doing it at cost price for her

I'd have liked to turbo it like ive said above, but she likes the idea of being able to easily put it back to standard as she's probably getting rid after next year anyway and as its only her daily its not like she needs 260bhp anyway, if she is doing trackdays she generally uses either my mk1 clio or our corsa on bodies anyway although she has done a few in her Clio now too but its not really what its intended for. Plus by end of next year I'll have the turbo honda one done hopefully which will be 300bhp and an LSD etc.



Yep, exactly that!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its a megane one but not the R26R I believe.

Keith Michaels PLC

I've got to get me a little toy like that looks like it could be fun to work on

Chip

iTrader: (3)

172s are fantastic cars, Ive really fallen for them since mapping a few and doing some trackdays in them, including Porkie from here very kindly let me take his for a few laps of the ring last year, in fact he more or less forced me too as I wasnt keen to without having ring insurance, but hopefully you can help me with that for next time

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Few laps of the Ring? you drove it all over Europe and the Uk

my first one you mean that one died.

The new one is sooooooooooo much better.

Keith Michaels PLC

Well let me get a few track days under my belt as I've never done one and then I'll try setting up a little clio see what I can get out of it although again ive never done anything that big on a car.

Hopefully my lack of knowledge doesnt let me down too bad! but yes Chip looks like i've got a bit of a niche to help you guys with!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yes, was very enjoyable, thanks
It really was a cracking little track car.

Yeah, in the middle of the summer with no aircon, and no radio (well it had one but I couldnt fucking hear it )

Hatefull thing as a grand tourer, will take the mrs one with aircon and leather and comfy suspension etc over that one for a european tour any day (or better still your 996 turbo or f430 please ), I didnt know what i was letting myself in for
Nah, seriously, was a cracking holiday that and the car really was totally faultless, couldnt have asked for more from it



Ah yes, i keep forgetting its "colin 2" now, definately looking forward to having a go in it.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

If you go to a trackday porkie is at he normally turns up with so many cars he doesnt notice if people borrow a couple, saves having to buy or build your own

Seriously though, sounds like you'll fit right in around here Matt, just the right attitude to have of wanting to get stuck in

Keith Michaels PLC

I'm glad to be accepted with such open arms! haha

should be a good laugh mate keep me posted!

TimC

iTrader: (1)

Lee what happened to number 1? What is number 2 like?

Madgit

Cracking thread on CS Chip and you, you noob lol.