cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

I have got to change my tappets so i was thinking about fitting a BD10 on the inlet and leaving the stanard cam on the exhaust.

Is this ok or should i fit both cams ?

I have noticed a few people with bigger cams only use the inlet, so i was wondering if this is the way to go

Please help me out

Steve.

CosRush

oh dear

see here........ive already asked.......

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...779&highlight=

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Wont let me view the topic

Steve.

CosRush

In essence, people either:

1. Dont really know......

or

2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Actually, that's bollocks, as I seem to remeber telling you to stick with the standard cams up to a certain power level .

Steve,
Until you decide to didtch the 803s and fit a bigger exhaust wheel, I would not recommend going away from the standard cams. They are PEREFECT up to 360-370bhp.

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

i have a mountune K2 inlet in mine

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

I am going to get a .63 exhaust housing, i have already got 400s to fit also group A pump and coil.

Is it worth doing a single cam or both or not at all ?

Steve.

CosRush

Mike,
Based on what exactly???
Would you care to explain how and why the Standard cams are any better than any of the various profiles available.
I noticed you've had no input in the Camshaft technical discussion in the Technical essays section, please feel to enlighten me as to the reasons why various cam profiles make the differences they do when used on the Cosworth engine, since all the discussion has thrown up so far is that no one seems to be sure........

You have to understand Mike, Just because YOU (or anyone else) say its better means nothing to me unless you can explain WHY........

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Steve,
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .

Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .


CosRush,
Based on 13 years of experience of Cosworths and 6 different engine specs that I have personally owned. Any tuner of Cosworths (worth his salt) will tell you how good the standard cams are. Any tuner advising you to fit BD10s, either has excess stock and wants shot or hasn't access to an engine dyno to see what these cams do to the mid-range .

The K2 cams for a Cosworth are absolutely awesome, but with nearly 11mm of lift, need the pistons pocketed and Isky valve springs. For any car aiming for 400+ bhp with a T34, these would be MY cam of choice, as they give a fantastic spread of power.

Beyond that, I'm not prepared to divulge my tuner's engine dyno experience with cams / timing, as he has spent many hours getting this information, and it would be unfair to give it out willy-nilly.

Danny B

Conclusion to this is: this is what you pay a GOOD tuner for. dont expect important info for free.

Anonymous

Tuners saying what cams they use wouldnt help much without knowing how they were timed in anyway

DaveEscos

I think I have K2 cams aswell....


as per usual though... I dont fooking know!


Mike!???

Ginge !

yeah i heard he was abit busy to answer the phone this week too mike

Ginge !

and how many good tuners actually just ask for the infomation and hopw many actually develop it at there expence

as lots of em just mis spec cars and then learn from that, technically thats not development but tiral and error ON THERE customers

Anonymous

EVERY tuner knew nothing at one point.

The trick is finding one who does know now!
Hence danny said GOOD tuner

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Dave,
I don't know ANYTHING about your engine, other than what you have posted - ask Harvey, he has the build sheet on his computer .

Ginge,
Regarding your first comment, he is ALWAYS available to me (he's afraid he might miss out on a good BJ ), so I have his mobile number, home and BAT phone number if the usual SCS one is engaged .

Regarding your second, unfortunately I have to agree, hence why you need a tuner that understands these engines like you do the back of your hand .

Ginge !

my point was how can a tuner that "steals" the info then claim its secret and privleged knowlege

its ok for him to ask and rob it but not for a DIY person

dont that just make him a cowboy who rips people off and its usually these that dont share infomation as the others who develop usually are never happy and carry on with developing to give there secrets away, but they do share there "old " methods

DaveEscos

Mike, would you mind removing your hand then and tapping him on the shoulder for me

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, I'm keeping it in the warm .

Ginge !

Anonymous

Thats a nonsense and also totally accurate at the same time.

NO tuner got where they are without help, they all stand on the shoulders of others to a certain extent, but that doesnt mean they have to hand everything on to anyone who wants to know.

I myself am very open about sharing knowledge that i have, but there are certain subjects where even i only ever go "so far" as i dont wish to share everything ive worked out over the years, some of it is stuff that friends of mine use to competitive advantage in drag racing for example, and hence is not the sort of thing i would post on a public forum and lose them that advantage.

At the end of the day, its all cool to share info, but the moment money or racing comes into the equation, people are justifiably going to hang onto that info for themselves.

We're lucky on this forum to have Stu, because he is unusually open for someone "in the trade", but its not realistic to assume all other tuners will feel they wish to do the same service to our community.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

100% agree .

Ginge !

chip my point is cam timing is a relativly easy thing to do but some tuners charge soo much for what takes a few moments to do generally

hell i can remember ages ago phoning a tuner whos on here to fit a head gasket and they quoted me 200 quid for the head gasket and 200 for timing re cam

even thoug i supply the parts , he said its not the same as just fitting a head gasket and takes about 4 hours

this was a engine not a car btw

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

What is the rest of your spec ? turbo, injecters etc.

Steve.

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

[quote="Mike Rainbird"]Steve,
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .

Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't want to take the engine apart.

Have got a 200 block etc to build up one day, was just trying to get the most out of this engine without taking it apart.

Thanks

Steve.

Anonymous

Timing in a set of cams properly can easily take half a day or more on the dyno / rollers
Although again, this is where an experienced tuner will be in the right ballpark just from previous knowledge so will be quicker.

Ginge !

chip that wasnt what he was gonna do though, he was gonna time a cvh36 cam on a erst engine , not that much in the way of adjustment compared to a twin cam engine i dont think

how can he time it that way with JUST an engine and nothing else


btw buy brand new standard cossie cams then test adn see

Anonymous

Well based on what you are saying there, that sounds like a lot of profit for not a lot of work.

sounds like my kind of guy

Anonymous

i put a bd10 in my engine it seemed it was the same setup as u are looking at light blues t34 .63 housing etc when i put the cam in it wasent too bad made it loose a bit of low down power but really seemed to pull top end revs.Imo i stay stick with the std cams its a better town drive mate feels more torquey where as the bd10 seemed to flattern off midrange and give me top end power. Hope thqat helps u decide

CosRush

Mike,
All i wanted to know was, on what basis you made that statement...

if i said take out the cams and fit BD15's in both, i'd expect to be asked why........(thats not what im saying by the way )

Or better still take them out and soak them in honey before urinating on them, then refit them....again i'd expect to be questioned........

Its was my understanding thats what the forum was all about thats all.......



I know full well from experience that cam changes should not be taken lightly.........

Anonymous

Why?


(sorry, couldnt resist )

CosRush

Back in the early 90's when i was building X-flow engines, i tried a whole host of different cams.

One came highly recommended by a company called 'Emerald'....(heard of them )

To cut a long story short, i plumped for the cam which was going to suit ther engine spec best and it never ran properly.

it was horrible to drive, produced no significant power than the engine was running and lost out everywhere else it should have gained.

After a short while i binned it and went to a Kent 244, no other changes and the difference you just wouldn't believe. the Kent cam pulled from idle and pulled to just over 7200rpm, and produced 156bhp at 6500rpm.

the Emerald cam should have made 155bhp according to Emerald, but made about 130........

Thats said, my very first engine was a 1300 x-flow and that made 115Bhp with a Kent BCF2 cam.

So like i say i am fully aware that experience goes along way, its cuts down the time between having an idea of which direction to go in with a tuning aspect and knowing how to get close to start with.....all comes from experience.

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for your advice

Steve.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Rush,
Okay, in my experience, stick with the standard cams up to 370bhp .

Steve,
If it was my car, I would stick with the standard cams . No point in changing UNLESS you go for one that is going to work with your spec (and as you won't go internal at this stage - stick with standard).

Ginge !

mike could you find out the best cam timing for me on standard cams please mate if you wanna play with the bat light

also as he said about bd10 inlet and standard, would that be a idea or not

DOO

looks like i be dumping my BD10`s then and fitting standerd.

CosRush

Mike,

You're absolutely right........I should have known

A quick search on 'Google' revealed you have been in the business for some time so it would seem, hence the experience.....

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Have you got adjustable verniers?

I've already answered that a million times . BD10 = doorstop / ornament, NOTHING else .

Rush,
I'm strangely attracted to those wheels .

my_cossie

Mike,

From the experience you and your tuner have what kind of cams would you recommend for a 520+Bhp engine running a T4 ? The reason I ask is that I am in the process of sourcing parts for my engine and have been offered a head that apparently is good for over 540Bhp. I have seen the head and the porting looks really good but I was surprised at the cams it had in it which has put doubt in my mind to buy it or not!

Thanks,

Jim - newbie so be nice!

Ginge !

[quote="Mike Rainbird"]Have you got adjustable verniers?


quote]

of couse i do otherwise how would i time em toerh than standard