Cams for Cossies
#1
Cams for Cossies
I have got to change my tappets so i was thinking about fitting a BD10 on the inlet and leaving the stanard cam on the exhaust.
Is this ok or should i fit both cams ?
I have noticed a few people with bigger cams only use the inlet, so i was wondering if this is the way to go
Please help me out
Steve.
Is this ok or should i fit both cams ?
I have noticed a few people with bigger cams only use the inlet, so i was wondering if this is the way to go
Please help me out
Steve.
#2
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oh dear
see here........ive already asked.......
https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...779&highlight=
see here........ive already asked.......
https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...779&highlight=
#3
Originally Posted by CosRush
oh dear
see here........ive already asked.......
https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...779&highlight=
see here........ive already asked.......
https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...779&highlight=
Steve.
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In essence, people either:
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
#5
Caraholic
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Originally Posted by CosRush
In essence, people either:
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
Steve,
Until you decide to didtch the 803s and fit a bigger exhaust wheel, I would not recommend going away from the standard cams. They are PEREFECT up to 360-370bhp.
#7
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by CosRush
In essence, people either:
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
Steve,
Until you decide to didtch the 803s and fit a bigger exhaust wheel, I would not recommend going away from the standard cams. They are PEREFECT up to 360-370bhp.
Is it worth doing a single cam or both or not at all ?
Steve.
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#8
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by CosRush
In essence, people either:
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
1. Dont really know......
or
2. Do know, but realise that as nobody else seems to know, they ought to keep their knowledge to themselves and not share it
Based on what exactly???
Would you care to explain how and why the Standard cams are any better than any of the various profiles available.
I noticed you've had no input in the Camshaft technical discussion in the Technical essays section, please feel to enlighten me as to the reasons why various cam profiles make the differences they do when used on the Cosworth engine, since all the discussion has thrown up so far is that no one seems to be sure........
You have to understand Mike, Just because YOU (or anyone else) say its better means nothing to me unless you can explain WHY........
#9
Caraholic
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Steve,
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .
Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .
CosRush,
Based on 13 years of experience of Cosworths and 6 different engine specs that I have personally owned. Any tuner of Cosworths (worth his salt) will tell you how good the standard cams are. Any tuner advising you to fit BD10s, either has excess stock and wants shot or hasn't access to an engine dyno to see what these cams do to the mid-range .
The K2 cams for a Cosworth are absolutely awesome, but with nearly 11mm of lift, need the pistons pocketed and Isky valve springs. For any car aiming for 400+ bhp with a T34, these would be MY cam of choice, as they give a fantastic spread of power.
Beyond that, I'm not prepared to divulge my tuner's engine dyno experience with cams / timing, as he has spent many hours getting this information, and it would be unfair to give it out willy-nilly.
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .
Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .
CosRush,
Based on 13 years of experience of Cosworths and 6 different engine specs that I have personally owned. Any tuner of Cosworths (worth his salt) will tell you how good the standard cams are. Any tuner advising you to fit BD10s, either has excess stock and wants shot or hasn't access to an engine dyno to see what these cams do to the mid-range .
The K2 cams for a Cosworth are absolutely awesome, but with nearly 11mm of lift, need the pistons pocketed and Isky valve springs. For any car aiming for 400+ bhp with a T34, these would be MY cam of choice, as they give a fantastic spread of power.
Beyond that, I'm not prepared to divulge my tuner's engine dyno experience with cams / timing, as he has spent many hours getting this information, and it would be unfair to give it out willy-nilly.
#13
just finding my feet
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Beyond that, I'm not prepared to divulge my tuner's engine dyno experience with cams / timing, as he has spent many hours getting this information, and it would be unfair to give it out willy-nilly.
yeah i heard he was abit busy to answer the phone this week too mike
#14
just finding my feet
Originally Posted by Danny B
Conclusion to this is: this is what you pay a GOOD tuner for. dont expect important info for free.
as lots of em just mis spec cars and then learn from that, technically thats not development but tiral and error ON THERE customers
#15
Originally Posted by b19bal
Originally Posted by Danny B
Conclusion to this is: this is what you pay a GOOD tuner for. dont expect important info for free.
as lots of em just mis spec cars and then learn from that, technically thats not development but tiral and error ON THERE customers
The trick is finding one who does know now!
Hence danny said GOOD tuner
#16
Caraholic
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Originally Posted by DaveEscos
I think I have K2 cams aswell....
as per usual though... I dont fooking know!
Mike!???
as per usual though... I dont fooking know!
Mike!???
I don't know ANYTHING about your engine, other than what you have posted - ask Harvey, he has the build sheet on his computer .
Ginge,
Regarding your first comment, he is ALWAYS available to me (he's afraid he might miss out on a good BJ ), so I have his mobile number, home and BAT phone number if the usual SCS one is engaged .
Regarding your second, unfortunately I have to agree, hence why you need a tuner that understands these engines like you do the back of your hand .
#17
just finding my feet
my point was how can a tuner that "steals" the info then claim its secret and privleged knowlege
its ok for him to ask and rob it but not for a DIY person
dont that just make him a cowboy who rips people off and its usually these that dont share infomation as the others who develop usually are never happy and carry on with developing to give there secrets away, but they do share there "old " methods
its ok for him to ask and rob it but not for a DIY person
dont that just make him a cowboy who rips people off and its usually these that dont share infomation as the others who develop usually are never happy and carry on with developing to give there secrets away, but they do share there "old " methods
#18
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Dave,
I don't know ANYTHING about your engine, other than what you have posted - ask Harvey, he has the build sheet on his computer .
I don't know ANYTHING about your engine, other than what you have posted - ask Harvey, he has the build sheet on his computer .
Mike, would you mind removing your hand then and tapping him on the shoulder for me
#19
Caraholic
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Originally Posted by DaveEscos
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Dave,
I don't know ANYTHING about your engine, other than what you have posted - ask Harvey, he has the build sheet on his computer .
I don't know ANYTHING about your engine, other than what you have posted - ask Harvey, he has the build sheet on his computer .
Mike, would you mind removing your hand then and tapping him on the shoulder for me
#21
Originally Posted by b19bal
my point was how can a tuner that "steals" the info then claim its secret and privleged knowlege
its ok for him to ask and rob it but not for a DIY person
dont that just make him a cowboy who rips people off and its usually these that dont share infomation as the others who develop usually are never happy and carry on with developing to give there secrets away, but they do share there "old " methods
its ok for him to ask and rob it but not for a DIY person
dont that just make him a cowboy who rips people off and its usually these that dont share infomation as the others who develop usually are never happy and carry on with developing to give there secrets away, but they do share there "old " methods
NO tuner got where they are without help, they all stand on the shoulders of others to a certain extent, but that doesnt mean they have to hand everything on to anyone who wants to know.
I myself am very open about sharing knowledge that i have, but there are certain subjects where even i only ever go "so far" as i dont wish to share everything ive worked out over the years, some of it is stuff that friends of mine use to competitive advantage in drag racing for example, and hence is not the sort of thing i would post on a public forum and lose them that advantage.
At the end of the day, its all cool to share info, but the moment money or racing comes into the equation, people are justifiably going to hang onto that info for themselves.
We're lucky on this forum to have Stu, because he is unusually open for someone "in the trade", but its not realistic to assume all other tuners will feel they wish to do the same service to our community.
#22
Caraholic
iTrader: (3)
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by b19bal
my point was how can a tuner that "steals" the info then claim its secret and privleged knowlege
its ok for him to ask and rob it but not for a DIY person
dont that just make him a cowboy who rips people off and its usually these that dont share infomation as the others who develop usually are never happy and carry on with developing to give there secrets away, but they do share there "old " methods
its ok for him to ask and rob it but not for a DIY person
dont that just make him a cowboy who rips people off and its usually these that dont share infomation as the others who develop usually are never happy and carry on with developing to give there secrets away, but they do share there "old " methods
NO tuner got where they are without help, they all stand on the shoulders of others to a certain extent, but that doesnt mean they have to hand everything on to anyone who wants to know.
I myself am very open about sharing knowledge that i have, but there are certain subjects where even i only ever go "so far" as i dont wish to share everything ive worked out over the years, some of it is stuff that friends of mine use to competitive advantage in drag racing for example, and hence is not the sort of thing i would post on a public forum and lose them that advantage.
At the end of the day, its all cool to share info, but the moment money or racing comes into the equation, people are justifiably going to hang onto that info for themselves.
We're lucky on this forum to have Stu, because he is unusually open for someone "in the trade", but its not realistic to assume all other tuners will feel they wish to do the same service to our community.
#23
just finding my feet
chip my point is cam timing is a relativly easy thing to do but some tuners charge soo much for what takes a few moments to do generally
hell i can remember ages ago phoning a tuner whos on here to fit a head gasket and they quoted me 200 quid for the head gasket and 200 for timing re cam
even thoug i supply the parts , he said its not the same as just fitting a head gasket and takes about 4 hours
this was a engine not a car btw
hell i can remember ages ago phoning a tuner whos on here to fit a head gasket and they quoted me 200 quid for the head gasket and 200 for timing re cam
even thoug i supply the parts , he said its not the same as just fitting a head gasket and takes about 4 hours
this was a engine not a car btw
#25
[quote="Mike Rainbird"]Steve,
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .
Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't want to take the engine apart.
Have got a 200 block etc to build up one day, was just trying to get the most out of this engine without taking it apart.
Thanks
Steve.
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .
Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't want to take the engine apart.
Have got a 200 block etc to build up one day, was just trying to get the most out of this engine without taking it apart.
Thanks
Steve.
#26
Originally Posted by b19bal
chip my point is cam timing is a relativly easy thing to do but some tuners charge soo much for what takes a few moments to do generally
hell i can remember ages ago phoning a tuner whos on here to fit a head gasket and they quoted me 200 quid for the head gasket and 200 for timing re cam
even thoug i supply the parts , he said its not the same as just fitting a head gasket and takes about 4 hours
this was a engine not a car btw
hell i can remember ages ago phoning a tuner whos on here to fit a head gasket and they quoted me 200 quid for the head gasket and 200 for timing re cam
even thoug i supply the parts , he said its not the same as just fitting a head gasket and takes about 4 hours
this was a engine not a car btw
Timing in a set of cams properly can easily take half a day or more on the dyno / rollers
Although again, this is where an experienced tuner will be in the right ballpark just from previous knowledge so will be quicker.
#27
just finding my feet
chip that wasnt what he was gonna do though, he was gonna time a cvh36 cam on a erst engine , not that much in the way of adjustment compared to a twin cam engine i dont think
how can he time it that way with JUST an engine and nothing else
btw buy brand new standard cossie cams then test adn see
how can he time it that way with JUST an engine and nothing else
btw buy brand new standard cossie cams then test adn see
#28
Originally Posted by b19bal
chip that wasnt what he was gonna do though, he was gonna time a cvh36 cam on a erst engine , not that much in the way of adjustment compared to a twin cam engine i dont think
how can he time it that way with JUST an engine and nothing else
btw buy brand new standard cossie cams then test adn see
how can he time it that way with JUST an engine and nothing else
btw buy brand new standard cossie cams then test adn see
sounds like my kind of guy
#29
i put a bd10 in my engine it seemed it was the same setup as u are looking at light blues t34 .63 housing etc when i put the cam in it wasent too bad made it loose a bit of low down power but really seemed to pull top end revs.Imo i stay stick with the std cams its a better town drive mate feels more torquey where as the bd10 seemed to flattern off midrange and give me top end power. Hope thqat helps u decide
#30
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
CosRush,
Based on 13 years of experience of Cosworths and 6 different engine specs that I have personally owned. Any tuner of Cosworths (worth his salt) will tell you how good the standard cams are.
Based on 13 years of experience of Cosworths and 6 different engine specs that I have personally owned. Any tuner of Cosworths (worth his salt) will tell you how good the standard cams are.
All i wanted to know was, on what basis you made that statement...
if i said take out the cams and fit BD15's in both, i'd expect to be asked why........(thats not what im saying by the way )
Or better still take them out and soak them in honey before urinating on them, then refit them....again i'd expect to be questioned........
Its was my understanding thats what the forum was all about thats all.......
I know full well from experience that cam changes should not be taken lightly.........
#32
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Back in the early 90's when i was building X-flow engines, i tried a whole host of different cams.
One came highly recommended by a company called 'Emerald'....(heard of them )
To cut a long story short, i plumped for the cam which was going to suit ther engine spec best and it never ran properly.
it was horrible to drive, produced no significant power than the engine was running and lost out everywhere else it should have gained.
After a short while i binned it and went to a Kent 244, no other changes and the difference you just wouldn't believe. the Kent cam pulled from idle and pulled to just over 7200rpm, and produced 156bhp at 6500rpm.
the Emerald cam should have made 155bhp according to Emerald, but made about 130........
Thats said, my very first engine was a 1300 x-flow and that made 115Bhp with a Kent BCF2 cam.
So like i say i am fully aware that experience goes along way, its cuts down the time between having an idea of which direction to go in with a tuning aspect and knowing how to get close to start with.....all comes from experience.
One came highly recommended by a company called 'Emerald'....(heard of them )
To cut a long story short, i plumped for the cam which was going to suit ther engine spec best and it never ran properly.
it was horrible to drive, produced no significant power than the engine was running and lost out everywhere else it should have gained.
After a short while i binned it and went to a Kent 244, no other changes and the difference you just wouldn't believe. the Kent cam pulled from idle and pulled to just over 7200rpm, and produced 156bhp at 6500rpm.
the Emerald cam should have made 155bhp according to Emerald, but made about 130........
Thats said, my very first engine was a 1300 x-flow and that made 115Bhp with a Kent BCF2 cam.
So like i say i am fully aware that experience goes along way, its cuts down the time between having an idea of which direction to go in with a tuning aspect and knowing how to get close to start with.....all comes from experience.
#33
Originally Posted by ECOSNIGE
i put a bd10 in my engine it seemed it was the same setup as u are looking at light blues t34 .63 housing etc when i put the cam in it wasent too bad made it loose a bit of low down power but really seemed to pull top end revs.Imo i stay stick with the std cams its a better town drive mate feels more torquey where as the bd10 seemed to flattern off midrange and give me top end power. Hope thqat helps u decide
Steve.
#34
Caraholic
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Rush,
Okay, in my experience, stick with the standard cams up to 370bhp .
Steve,
If it was my car, I would stick with the standard cams . No point in changing UNLESS you go for one that is going to work with your spec (and as you won't go internal at this stage - stick with standard).
Okay, in my experience, stick with the standard cams up to 370bhp .
Steve,
If it was my car, I would stick with the standard cams . No point in changing UNLESS you go for one that is going to work with your spec (and as you won't go internal at this stage - stick with standard).
#35
just finding my feet
mike could you find out the best cam timing for me on standard cams please mate if you wanna play with the bat light
also as he said about bd10 inlet and standard, would that be a idea or not
also as he said about bd10 inlet and standard, would that be a idea or not
#36
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Rush,
Okay, in my experience, stick with the standard cams up to 370bhp .
Steve,
If it was my car, I would stick with the standard cams . No point in changing UNLESS you go for one that is going to work with your spec (and as you won't go internal at this stage - stick with standard).
Okay, in my experience, stick with the standard cams up to 370bhp .
Steve,
If it was my car, I would stick with the standard cams . No point in changing UNLESS you go for one that is going to work with your spec (and as you won't go internal at this stage - stick with standard).
looks like i be dumping my BD10`s then and fitting standerd.
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Mike,
You're absolutely right........I should have known
A quick search on 'Google' revealed you have been in the business for some time so it would seem, hence the experience.....
You're absolutely right........I should have known
A quick search on 'Google' revealed you have been in the business for some time so it would seem, hence the experience.....
#38
Caraholic
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Originally Posted by b19bal
mike could you find out the best cam timing for me on standard cams please mate if you wanna play with the bat light.
Originally Posted by b19bal
also as he said about bd10 inlet and standard, would that be a idea or not
Rush,
I'm strangely attracted to those wheels .
#39
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Steve,
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .
Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .
CosRush,
Based on 13 years of experience of Cosworths and 6 different engine specs that I have personally owned. Any tuner of Cosworths (worth his salt) will tell you how good the standard cams are. Any tuner advising you to fit BD10s, either has excess stock and wants shot or hasn't access to an engine dyno to see what these cams do to the mid-range .
The K2 cams for a Cosworth are absolutely awesome, but with nearly 11mm of lift, need the pistons pocketed and Isky valve springs. For any car aiming for 400+ bhp with a T34, these would be MY cam of choice, as they give a fantastic spread of power.
Beyond that, I'm not prepared to divulge my tuner's engine dyno experience with cams / timing, as he has spent many hours getting this information, and it would be unfair to give it out willy-nilly.
If you're prepared to go internal and pocket the pistons, then the set-up RAN has on his car would be ideal for you (you'll need Iskey's on the K2 side as well) .
Should release around 380-390 bhp . Beyond that, you really need the next step up in injector size .
CosRush,
Based on 13 years of experience of Cosworths and 6 different engine specs that I have personally owned. Any tuner of Cosworths (worth his salt) will tell you how good the standard cams are. Any tuner advising you to fit BD10s, either has excess stock and wants shot or hasn't access to an engine dyno to see what these cams do to the mid-range .
The K2 cams for a Cosworth are absolutely awesome, but with nearly 11mm of lift, need the pistons pocketed and Isky valve springs. For any car aiming for 400+ bhp with a T34, these would be MY cam of choice, as they give a fantastic spread of power.
Beyond that, I'm not prepared to divulge my tuner's engine dyno experience with cams / timing, as he has spent many hours getting this information, and it would be unfair to give it out willy-nilly.
From the experience you and your tuner have what kind of cams would you recommend for a 520+Bhp engine running a T4 ? The reason I ask is that I am in the process of sourcing parts for my engine and have been offered a head that apparently is good for over 540Bhp. I have seen the head and the porting looks really good but I was surprised at the cams it had in it which has put doubt in my mind to buy it or not!
Thanks,
Jim - newbie so be nice!
#40
just finding my feet
[quote="Mike Rainbird"]
Have you got adjustable verniers?
quote]
of couse i do otherwise how would i time em toerh than standard
Originally Posted by b19bal
mike could you find out the best cam timing for me on standard cams please mate if you wanna play with the bat light.
quote]
of couse i do otherwise how would i time em toerh than standard