xr2i-carl

i have a e36 318 is coupe bmw (140bhp) not very fast but not mega slow book figure is 10.2 to 60mph which i think is not the case because at stratford in april at the interford show got 16.6 1/4mile pass which would suggest a mid to high 8 seconds to 60mph i think anyway

main point to th post is how do you rwd cossie owners manage with the standard 200 horses let alone stage 1 and beyond in this weather.

even with traction control on i am coming slightly sideways out of junctions etc.

so i thought i would try taking traction control off and going down some 'private roads' and having some fun even with only 140 horses i am going pretty sideways and almost lost in changing up to 2nd still goin sideways

is there any tricks in hanging in comfortably or relatively safely without cacking ya pants??

i was firmly on the rev limiter for some time will this damage the lifters thru running dry??

cheers

carl

xr2i-carl

also it is quite a good handling car it would essily out handle my modified rs turbo but i still seem to have lots of body roll and the car is jerking sideways do you cossie boys notice the bodyroll when the csr is flicking about??

carl

rapidcossie

i thought the traction on bmw was pretty good

just been out in my dads 330 ci sport, turned the traction control off and still got full grip in first!

it has 255 section pilot sports on it tho

xr2i-carl

really?? dont get me wrong it grips well but with the damp on the road it really was going pretty sideways

i would love to try my old mans 535d out there today would be mad


carl

rapidcossie

yeah was pretty suprised actually, but launched it two or three times and it just went

Stavros

first thing to learn is that there are throttle positions between none and full

my old 400bhp cossie would spin wheels in every gear in the wet, but still easy to drive wet or dry.

my drift S13 lights em up easy enough in 3rd in the wet and hangs at some mega angles, chekit...
(arrow shows direction i was actually traveling in)


What you need is practice, and a decent diff.

Dont countersteer as such, just let go of the steering wheel

xr2i-carl

cool pic. you actually caught it aswell??

SHA MOAN THAT MAN

carl

bud-weis

as steve said, you have to realise that the throttle is gonna control the slide as much as your steering will.

get used to not shittin your pants when it starts to go, stay calm and keep the throttle in, lifting off will probably make the car snap the other way and you'll lose control.

don't try it with other cars close by!!

i should think it's a lot of fun with a fairly low power NA RWD car, very predictable i would have thought. Can be more testing with a laggy big power turbo car

Have Fun and BE CAREFUL

xr2i-carl

cheers bud-weis

yeah it is fun i will try your recomendations on the same 'private road' i used earlier lol

if it snows even with traction on its going to be mad im rekoning

carl

bud-weis

Stavros

Yea that one i caught, but prob span about 50% of the time, so at least 20 times

Practice, practice, practice

xr2i-carl

have you ever hit anything when you lost it?

carl

Stealth Bomber

Edit, realised E36 not E30 being talked about.

xr2i-carl

no its e36 1999. sure book says 10.2. does in back of performance bmw too i think

Stavros

Ive got v.v.v.close when drifting, but never actually hit anything yet, but its only a matter of time, ive span loads.

Ill be shocked if i dont seriously damage or destroy my S13 within a few months.
But im a bit more, shall we say, daring, than most
Maximum Attack baby

xr2i-carl

but surely a 16.6 1/4mile is deffo quicker than 10.2 to 60

It's Czech Mate

I suppose it depends on the gearing amongst other things.

My Z-S is quoted at 10 seconds to 60 bit thats only because it goes to 58mph in 2nd so it is a bit quicker than you'd think in real life

xr2i-carl

yeah i think the z-s are quite bit quicker than book figure i remember few years ago in my stage 2 xr2i i couldnt pull on one, i was quite embarrased lol

what has your z-s 1/4m in?

carl

Coldo

Kinda on the same boat...

Ive an E30 316i.. noticed a few times, pulling away from junctions, changing up into 2nd, and sometimes 3rd, the back end it twitchy as hell.

All good fun though

Daviet

tried to drive my car the other day on a snow covered country road could only just keep the thing on the road
had a few close calls but its al good fun
learning everyday tho probably a matter of time before it all goes pearshaped tho

xr2i-carl

daviet your e30 looks cool

what model is it

carl

Daviet

325i sport
with ditch finder tyres makes it even more fun

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

sideways is fun! it gets easier the more you do it. get yourself to a roundabout thats well out of the way and have some practise. i've only crashed once going sideways... well backwards after i span my mate maz's s14a... i scraped it against a post, it hurt my pride AND my wallet


the cossie is pretty easy to control in the wet... just don't put your foot down!

twitchyrear

try it on a island,and gradually build up your speed youll feel the point where it wants to break away,keep your foot in and keep practasing,as a few people have said the throttle has got more than 2 positions,so feather that peddle

Eagle

iTrader: (2)

used to be good at it in the mk2 years ago ..i found haing a turbo made it alot harder .. hence i got 4wd getting that to slide is such fun

xr2i-carl

but with only 140bhp surely i wont need to feather it because they is not enough power to hold it sideways with only a little throttle?


i understand feathering it with a 3000bhp cossie

carl

John Laverick

I drift my 1.8LX runaround in the wet all the time on roundabouts and I have to feather the throttle and thats got about 90BHP

gingeRS

letting go of the wheel is the trick

low power RWD is soooooo much fun

had more fun driving my Xr4i than ive ever had in another car

getting sideways in a big power car is always a little scarier

Rossco

BMW`s are shite when its slippy, no LSD`s unless you have a E36 M3 or 328 sport, iam not so sure about the E46 shape.

Last year in the snow mine got stuck outside my house in the snow while trying to reverse into my drive, just one wheel spinning

xr2i-carl

what does the lsd do again??

carl

Stavros

Well standard LSDs dont do much at all really, they poo

Basically they stop all the power being transferred to the wheel of least resistance (ie the spinning one) helping traction.

Once you sliding a LSD helps control things hugely, though standard LSDs are worlds away from a proper one in regards to this.

Or you get a welded/locked one like mine, very driftable and makes any car soo much more fun, but you will soo kill yourself if you not careful, im living on borrowed time with it, trust me

RichardPON

The absolute KEY to sliding/drifting a car properly is knowing when and how quickly to wind OFF the opposite lock.

Too many people with RWD cars think that simply applying 1/4 turn opposite lock of the steering wheel when the back steps out constitutes a big slide.......... and generally in a saff or other big lump of a car it does, as you can feel the weight transfer hugely, especially on soggy old suspension.

The two biggest problems are winding OFF the lock as mentioned, and backing off the throttle.

Now "ignoring" that power is feathered with the throttle, and assuming a linear power delivery to keep the wheels spinning (obviously not real world), then your first problem when removing the lock is when the car goes past the "break" point of opposite lock, and will then follow the course of the steering wheels as more grip is progressively returned as the car becomes more straight.

The second problem is much the same as the first, although hugely more exaggerated, as when you lift, you get almost instantaneous "grip" at the rear wheels, and you'll end up in a tank slapper, or shooting across in the direction of the steering wheels.

The point is that whilst the rear wheels are spinning and have limited grip, the car is actually muchy more controllable with the throttle.

Feathering the throttle will vary the grip levels at the rear - combine this with sensible steering input and you should be able to hold a perfect slide.

Just practice well away from the public road, and remember that it takes years to learn - I reckon I'm like at 2% of general ability, and I consider myself quite good!

Stavros

PON, get your ass down to Silverstone not this Saturday but the next, Drift UK practice day, 60quid

Im going

The 2degree ass twitch you mean

Also to note, about the winding off lock, if your properly sideways, trust me when i say letting go of the steering wheel and letting it unwind itself is a lot faster than you can steer back.

Its mega hard to get into your head, but it works, countersteering as fast as could was nowhere near as effective, apart from at spinning off and accidently turning on indicators and wipers

twitchyrear

havent tried letting go of the wheel yet,i bet its weird doing that for the first few times!!!

foreigneRS

just watch tiff needell, he lets go of the wheel when drifting, and then holds it again at the right time. he's not too shabby at the old sideways stuff, although there is better

xr2i-carl

so my bmw wont have a lsd? just a nornal diff!!1 would welding that up help aswell as welding a limited slip one??

silverstone soounds good is it safe there enough room if you lose it?

carl

RichardPON

Steve,

Can't make it, but if plans change, I'm there in the MR2!

Stavros

Nah, your BMW wont have an LSD, and even standard LSDs are pooh anyhow.

You weld up diffs like yours with no LSDs, rather than diffs already with LSDs in em.
Only about 50quid to get it done.
Careful about getting it done on your daily driver tho, might not suit everyone!

Yea silverstone practice is held in the huge carparks (using cones/barriers/etc and so on to mark the track) with proper drifters there to help you out, so youl learn loads and wont do any damage.

Youl be letting go of the steeringwheel with confidence in no time.

Go on driftworks forum (www.driftworks.co.uk) and use the search engine, youl find loads on welded diffs and so on, and anything you cant find out about you can post and ask, lot of proper drifters there who can help you.

Rossco

Welding a road cars diff is not really a very good idea, they dont like tight turns, like parking etc, can even snap the half shafts if you are unlucky

Stavros

Only in sub-10mph 90deg+ turns, and it goes round fine, just judders and chirps the rear wheels.

My SX has a welder, judders about as much as a decent 2way diff does TBH.

A lot of people run them on daily drivers, depends how much of a pussy you are, ive driven 100s of miles on em, no probs.