Dave Henshall

righty,

what are the options for my current setup, (ie std CR, 29psi peak and 25 held)

there are in my eyes the:

GrpA YB0611 -about £60 - may take it but not for long
std late escos YB1261 -about £35 - is this now as good as the grp A item?
Cometic MLS -about £150 - currently fitted but failed
Felpro - £dont know - heard that it is similar to cometic but less fussy about finish of head/block interface.
WRC 4 layer -about £400 - the dogs but too expensive


any other info apprecaited please.

Franco

iTrader: (2)

Mines got a Grp A fitted by Harvey, he reckons its fine for a stg 3!!

Also mine hits 1.9 tails off to 1.7 bar on greens, the only difference is i run a bosch pump.

Best to speak to Stu, see what he reckons (as its his set up!)

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Cometic or Mountune 4 layer for me Dave.

Anonymous

If the cometic has failed then i would strongly suspect that either:

It wasnt torqued correctly

The block wasnt flat

The head wasnt flat

SapphyMike

I agree with Chip - you'd also have the same problem with a £400 Mountune gasket!

a fibrous gasket can go over most smaller imperfections in the block and head faces, but a steel one will not for obvious reasons.

Block face and head face MUST be 100% flat to use a steel gasket.

big_wig_074

cheaper than a new engine fella!

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

I found that out the HARD way.... after buying 4 genuine WRC gaskets and doing less than 100miles in total !!! ooouchh wallet chaffer!

SapphyMike

ock! £1600ish down the swany! should've just given it to me

Dave Henshall

head was defo 100% as it has been skimmed, new ford head bolts were used and torqued down evenly in 3 stages. the block was check for flattnes and was also ok.

what about this though...


as i was rebuilding the head i pourded an amount of new oil over the cam followers and cam journals as i built it all up, obviously some of this will have run though the oil galleries and onto the head gasket as the head was being lowered into place, if oil had gotten on the top of the block and between the gasket and head, would this have prevented it from making a good seal on the faces, ie, does they not only have to be true and flat, but impecibly clean..?

Dave Henshall

stu, IYO, what should the boost be backed off to if i were to go for a grp A one..?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Theres your failure.
The gaskets have a rubber type facing on them that seals to teh head surface under pressure. oil cannot be compressed very well so has compromised the seal.

Anonymous

Also, the oil will make its way out over time, guess what happens then?
Your head hasnt got enough clamping pressure now, so basically from my list you were on the option "not torqued correctly"

And if you fit another one now, after the gasket has gone you will be under "head not flat" probably!

Dave Henshall

that would explain the amount of oil that gets sprayed everywhere from the inlet frint side of the gasket.

I see said the blind man


cheers guys, much apreciated,

so what do i do now, just g for a grp A as at least that will allow for a lil bit of imperfection and make sure its super clean,

how does the late type esocs one fair in comparison to the grpA one?

Anonymous

Your sig is a bit unfair.

It should say

Cometic headgasket (Idiot proof, but installed by an upgraded version of idiot )



Personally, i would get the block checked for flatness, get the head skimmed the tiniest amount possible to be flat, and then go for a properly installed cometic (and get Stu to det check it as it will now be slightly higher CR)

Disabled Account

It fares VERY well - Karl has even posted on here that it's a better design and superior constructed item

Not so long ago PJ Motorsport were selling them on "special offer" for £ 4.98 each

Dave Henshall

Dave Henshall

PJ's haven't got any std ones in

so i've just orded a set of headbolts and grp A gasket from woodford, £91.26 inc vat delivered.

another nice job for weekend

i'll post the pics of the old gasket etc up, at least if other people learn from my stupidity thats something

Dave Henshall

stu,

as my head can not take another skim, the CR may well go up due to teh slightly thinner grp A gasket as opposed to the thicker cometic one, will my chip still be ok, or should i drop the boost down a bit. bear in mind nothing else has changed since you set it up

Franco

iTrader: (2)

Doesn't the closed loop system control the boost though?!???!?!?!?

Anonymous

No, thats for off boost fuelling

Anonymous

It will need checking really.

SapphyMike

No, it controlls the fueling for non full throttle etc.

It has about as much do with controlling boost, as i have to do with selling cheese.


Cue Stu to shoot me down

Anonymous

Stu wont shoot you down, but can i give you a for being too slow

SapphyMike

LOL Chip - ah well, i was on the phone, so typing takes a back seat LOL

Dave Henshall

right, update:

whiped the head off, not really anythwhere noticeable where it had been passing water into no 2 and oil into no 4 though...

1,2


3,4


head


cometic top


cometic bottom


grp A


grp A fitted with 2 old studs as guides




new bolts, all torqued up , everything fitted back, re timed her, fired her up and no smoke, no missing no steam
wicked, just have to asee how ling it lasts now...

Ginge !

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

edited cause i did'nt read the whole thread

Dave Henshall

ive just noticed this that is didnt before,,,

could this slight scratch on the head have caused the water ingress?

Anonymous

I my opinion no Dave...if it went all the way then yes Dave.


Also IMO a metal gasket MUST be used in conjunction with long studs to get ultimate reliability.....They were designed for WRC cars which used 10 long studs which had increased clamping.

DazC

iTrader: (1)

The closed loop lambda/fueing control does the fueling. The closed loop boost control does the boost! P8 has closed fuel and boost control. I assume that Stu's chips retain the features.

Damo V

No2 is very clean though ay... presumably you cleaned the bolt holes out thoroughly?

can also see slight valve piston contact too

Anonymous

Damo good point you been over revving it Dave?

MalteseFalcon

In Malta we used group A , WRC 4 layer and others but nothing is quite good as The Italian Custom Made head gasket. The Zoqdi team( which was featured in Performance Ford magazine) races a 800bhp+NOS EscortMk1 Cossie drag car with these gaskits and no problems.

Fiecos Dan

my cometic seems fine, and done 4k miles of abuse.


hope it last's Dave.

Dave Henshall

yep, ran a tap down all teh bolt holes and blew the oil/water out with compressed air, no 2 was full to the top with coolant when i lifted the head off, the valve contact was like that before i did it last time, there is no evidenve of contact on teh valves so i assume its from when someone has timed it up badly in the past , i dont like revving it tbh, the best bit of the engine IMO is the mid range haul, the top end seems flat and pointless

Dave Henshall

driving in today, first time since it got it back together that its actually been on boost due to all the snow and all, but it fired up on 3, didnt clear for ages, then as soon as a little boost ca,e on a psshhhtt pop and loads of black/blue&white smoke out the back, give a little boost again and pop ding, loads of steam from under the bonnet, no more boost available and no water in teh header tank the head must go like a fookn pigs tail once it warms up the head must have gone porous or teh block has a hidden crack in it, fookn p1ssed off to say teh least,,, another £100 quid and a days work down the drain, after the £500 to have the head done and all teh gaskets last time.


fookin coosies

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Anonymous

wounder

Dave Henshall

what do we reckon, decent second hand head, and have the block skimmed,, can this be done in situ, or it it engine out job?

could the centre of the old cometic be used as a decompression plate if it were sealed to the block afterwards?