TWoods

Hello,

I think my piston rings on my zetec engine are on thier way out, iv noticed slightly higher oil consumption and bit of smoke in traffic but cant really tell the colour of the smoke becuase its not very dense. My question is how big a job is to change the piston rings? would the whole engine need to come out or just head off job?

Many thanks

EvilFranky

Can be done with the engine still in. Can also be done with the head still on aswell.

Just need to strip the sump off and all the bottom end bits like oil pump etc.

Anonymous

Engine out job IMHO

Certainly a head off job!

EvilFranky

I agree is would be A LOT easier taking the head off, but you could get away with not taking it off.

Probarly be a bit of a pig to do like

Rob

pistons wanna be installed from above you risk damaging the rings any other way.

RSeb

yeah i'd agree always install from the top

Rich_w

Nonsense!

How hte hell are you going to compress them?
How are you going to put them on the piston?

L33 BYT

IMO if you are replacing rings you really want to be looking at the pistons and also the bores them selves.
I would never be happy with jsut replacing the rings and hoping for the best.
HTH

TWoods

TBH i am a bit of a novice but i can follow guides and manuals fairly well, i rather just be able to take the head off and change the piston rings if thats the best way?
Just out of curiosty how long would it take to change the piston rings considering the head is already removed, is it actually a big job in itself?

Rich_w

As Chip says

Its much easier with the engine out. As you can rotate it on the stand and do the big end (conrod) bolts easier. Like everything on a car its just bolting stuff together. And its not a particularly difficult task. Mainly time consuming.

Though I would say dont attempt it if you arent confident. Have you carried out a wet and dry compression check and a cylinder leakage test yet? It might not be the rings remember.

TWoods

Oh yeah first thing i did was a compression test, cylinder 2 was slightly down in relation to the other cylinders, its something i rather try do myself for my own experience. Besides the qoutes i had to get the job done isnt worth it i can just add a bit more cash and get a whole recon engine in.

Rich_w

Was that a dry or wet test? And how much down? A littel down isnt a huge problem. Its a lot of work if you're going to save for a recon engine. I seem to recall used low mileage Zetec lumps going for Ł3-500.

Other thing is do you have the neccessary tools to take a head off, take pistons out The pliers to expand the rings and then a compresser to fit them back? Buying all the stuff you need from Halfords Pro Range is going to be somewhere near the (est) Ł2-3 hundred.

I know like I sound Im trying to put you off. But Im not. Just trying to make you aware of how much work it is.

SPo0n

took ford 2 weeks to do my fiesta zetec-s's piston rings

Stu.H

isnt that what the topic post is?

Rich_w

Well Yes, but I get accused of excessive negativity in the past. Im all for people trying things. And I suppose that if hes doing it for experience and will probably get a new engine in the near future. Then even better to learn on.

TWoods

I cant recall the figure of the top of my nugget but the signs pointing towards piston ring failure, i can pick up a complete zetec lump for Ł350 and garages been qouted me Ł600+ to do the job! I got the tools to take off the head and know how to refit it (i didnt it not too long ago actually) It took me 3hours to remove the head an 4 1/2 hrs to refit it, not bad i hope? say 8hours labour @ Ł60 phr = Ł480 i saved.

Is there any specific tools i need for piston rings?

Stu.H

the only way to learn is to make fookups imho

ie changin a rotar arm on a s2 with a hammer and a cloth

Dragon

Definately head off. Pistons go back in from the top! Head on PMSL - I'd like to know how you're going to get the rings compressed

Which zetec is it and on what car? Also what mileage?

Mondeos are a b***ard as the subframe has to be moved because the sump won't come clear of the subframe because it gets stuck behind the oil pump and fouls. Escorts are easier.

Even if you get a slightly lower PSI reading on the comp test it can still be rings (if it proves that's your problem). I've just done one that was 75/1 75/2 65/3 75/4 and the bore was buggered. Fortunately a honing and some ring seal cured it so it wasn't majorly bad, and I did it with the engine in.

Ford as a rule don't do a rebuild and specify a new bottom end as they don't machine well apparently.

Rich_w

Im assuming you have a dead blow hammer of sorts

Piston ring expanders (so you can open them up to get them over the crown (or skirt)



And a compressor tool to push them all in whiulst you knock the piston back into the head.



Just a question though. You sound pretty good mechanically. why not just buy the lump and fit it yourself?

Cant speak for Ford specifically, but I daresay its about time costs. I always used to condem a block rather than price a repair job.

Stu H
Ive been there with a pair of pliers and having to destroy a rotor to get it off the damn spindle. Its not pretty but it does work

Stu.H

no mate, i used the aforementioned "tools" to fit a new one

TWoods

Thanks for the info i cant tell you how helpfull you all are!

Rich w - looks like the only thing i need is a compressor tool which i will order today everything else i have. I dont consider being mechanically knowledgable or experienced i just know how to read english and follow instructions and when somethings not clear i ask questions or use a bit of common sense thats all.

Buying another lump is always an option however im a tight git and dont trust local garages or scrappies i always get the feeling their trying it on or being shifty.

Dragon

IMO if you can have a go and get it right then fair play! Nothing more satisfying than doing a job yourself and saving lots of Ł's

Just take your time and make sure everything is as clean as possible before you put it back together. Also make sure everything that needs to be torqued up is - you don't want anything flying off!! Crash bang wallop

Oh and make sure you get a fresh set of headbolts with your headset and put your stem seals in while you're at it (I hate that bit)

Rich_w

I'll add Conrod Bolts as well to Dragons list of use once bolts. Even consider getting some up rated ones as they arent prohibitively more.

Good Luck. If you get stuck stick up some photos and Im sure someone will advise you.

Dragon

'Prohibitively' - can I have some chips and mushy peas with my Dictionary please

Anonymous

FMPSL

How the hell are you going to change a set of rings without taking the head off?

Given that you HAVE to fit the piston rings from the top, its not like you can just slide them up from the crank end of the block or anything, how do you propose he does it, oke the rings in through the fucking sparkplug hole and hope for the best?

I take it you have NEVER worked on an engine then?
If so dont go giving fucking advice!

Guinnless

From your posts it appears that you think the job can be done just by removing the head. It can't you've got to remove the sump too which will mean the front subframe has to be dropped too. So the engine may need to be supported from the top.

IMO it's a complete waste of time as your new rings won't be able to cope with the ovality of the bores and will probaly burn more oil that it already does now.

Apologies for the negativity but you're going to end up doing a shed load of work for nothing.

And yes I have built engines

EvilFranky

Nice attitude chip.

Was just thinking of ways he might save himself a little extra cash, ie, not having to replace the head gasket and bolts etc...

Wasn't quite sure if piston rings had to go through the top or not, but i was sure someone on here would have corrected me...although maybe in not such an unpleasant manner.

Built my FRST engine thanks very much...3k miles and still going strong.

And while doing so, thought that it might be feasible to fit the pistons, rings, conrod through the bottom of the block while the crank was out if ever need be.

Obviously not.

TWoods

Finished the job today not too hard actually just followed manual step by step with some handy tips i found on the intershed, and now running good as gold! however if i was going to do it again i would get the engine out, without ramps its a bit dangerous and fiddley.

Dragon

PMSL - well if you had build your engine, you'd know that it can't be done LOL

Well done for having a go TWoods - glad you didn't have any trouble

EvilFranky

Dragon - your right, i just imagined i built it.

Anonymous

EvilFranky

You said this

What you didnt say was:
You Gave the guy totally incorrect information which potentially could have lent to him going about doing a major job compeltely the wrong way, what sort of twat advises someone on doing engine work when they dont know if the advice they are giving is right or not?

Sorry but the moment you start instructing people to do incorrect things with their engines you lose the right to get treated with any respect in my book.

EvilFranky

Yeah your right, i should have put 'possibly'...slight over look on my behalf.

Regardless, your attitude stunk.

Typical keyboard warrior. Easy to slag people off behind a computer screen.

Anonymous

If it was at a club meet or show that it was dicussed instead of on the internet my attitude (utter contempt) would have been EXACTLY the same, the keyboard doesnt make any difference.

EvilFranky

Ok.

Rich_w

Im with Chip on this.

If you arent sure. Then say so. But if you arent sure DONT speak as if you know.

No ones going to rip someone a new one, for not knowing.