500bhp skyline v 500bhp cossie
18-05-2005, 06:32 PM
#122
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agreed totaly cant see a tuned car matching a tuned bike
but bak to the topic still no answer all mixed opinions which is good maybe some1 needs to test them together?
but bak to the topic still no answer all mixed opinions which is good maybe some1 needs to test them together?
18-05-2005, 06:34 PM
#123
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they already did in p.f. not so long ago, quoting factory figurs is bullshit as there an indication only and most will be wrong, a 3dr against a r1 and there wasnt that much init over the 1/4 mile, the 3dr was 400bhp
18-05-2005, 07:04 PM
#125
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Like Mike said earlier a GTR drives/handles like a rwd car...because it is! The 4wd system uses a clutch to engage varying amounts of torque to the front wheels depending on what the computers tell the hydraulically controlled centre clutch to do. The UK tuning scene (Cossies and GTRs) seems to mostly concentrate on ultimate horsepower figures and a lots of mods get done purely for fashion reasons. My 1st concern was getting brakes and chassis sorted before commissioning my new motor and even now final spec of suspension is not settled on.
Oh and my car (34 GTR Vspec), prior to being dynamatted and stereo install, on std wheels, brakes and suspension with a full tank of Optimax weighed 1562kg and a shitload more with me sat in driving seat (fat bastard). I am aiming to get car down to 1550kg wet with stereo fitted by fitment of some carbon goodies and TI exhaust system.
Cam
Oh and my car (34 GTR Vspec), prior to being dynamatted and stereo install, on std wheels, brakes and suspension with a full tank of Optimax weighed 1562kg and a shitload more with me sat in driving seat (fat bastard). I am aiming to get car down to 1550kg wet with stereo fitted by fitment of some carbon goodies and TI exhaust system.
Cam
18-05-2005, 07:09 PM
#126
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Originally Posted by the strut brace
your rant is shit, read my post properly never said you would keep up with a really really fast bike so 
Right back at ya there fella, i wasnt so much arguing with your post as quoting the quote of it.
Im more than willing to accept that a FAST car will be able to keep up with an average bike.
ive seen it happen more than once, ultimately at top end theres not a lot in it tbh, the limiting factor of a car is how powerful the engine is, the limiting factor on the bike tends to be more the rider, and how big his/her balls are
top whack of an average sports6 is around the 150 mark realistically 140
that puts an average bike in the league of FAST cars. but no driver worth his salt could turn round and say i thrashed a fast bike. cos they didnt.
so while you never said you could keep up with a really fast bike. you said a fast bike. which i frankly think is a bit misguided. you could use an example of an R1 say which IS a fast bike. you beaten one of them? and importantly have you beaten a tuned one. cos unless you compare a FAST standard car
This isnt a dig at you believe me, its just one of my pet hates. people appear to think r6s and thier ilk are 'fast bikes' and are dead proud of 'beating' them in thier highly tuned cars show me a standard cossie (and lets face it even in standard trim a cosse can not be called an average car) that can horse an average bike let alone a fast one and i shall be mostly rather amazed
And ive gone off on one again
sorry
18-05-2005, 07:19 PM
#128
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QUOTE: When you young man have started to achieve what i have with my car, you can lecture me on how i conduct myself, Jealousy is a funny emotion & ONE YOU NEED TO CONTROL END OF QUOTE
First of all: Rod, don't you mean what MARK has achieved WITH your car and what MARK has achieved IN your car?
Secondly: the fact that someone has achieved something with your car doesn't give you anymore the right to conduct yourself as you like than the next man.
Third: we know you're an old fart, no need to remind us by starting your sentence in a patronising way with '' when you young man..."
Fourth: The fact that to you having a X-BHP car that does X-mph means a lot doesn't mean it the same for all of us. When someone tires of your ill-timed boasts (like me for instance) that doesn't neccesarily mean we're jealous. Personally I haven't followed your car's build/progress/achievements as I have no interest in this whatsoever.
Fifth: I don't know you, have nothing against you, don't care about your car but you do bore me to tears with the mentions of 200 mph and that.
We know, you have the money to have someone-else achieve this, happy for you, not impressed, get over it.
First of all: Rod, don't you mean what MARK has achieved WITH your car and what MARK has achieved IN your car?
Secondly: the fact that someone has achieved something with your car doesn't give you anymore the right to conduct yourself as you like than the next man.
Third: we know you're an old fart, no need to remind us by starting your sentence in a patronising way with '' when you young man..."
Fourth: The fact that to you having a X-BHP car that does X-mph means a lot doesn't mean it the same for all of us. When someone tires of your ill-timed boasts (like me for instance) that doesn't neccesarily mean we're jealous. Personally I haven't followed your car's build/progress/achievements as I have no interest in this whatsoever.
Fifth: I don't know you, have nothing against you, don't care about your car but you do bore me to tears with the mentions of 200 mph and that.
We know, you have the money to have someone-else achieve this, happy for you, not impressed, get over it.
18-05-2005, 07:22 PM
#129
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Top gear roll on from 100mph between a 2004 model GSXR750 and 330bhp stg3 4x4 Saff - result Cos pulled 50 yrds on bike initially then bike came past and fucked off.
Same bike against 400hp Skyline - result Skyline pulled 150 yrds initially then bike clawed it back and started pulling away.
Bike rider drops 2 gears at 100mph and he is gaaaawwwnnnn with either car regardless of what car drivers does.
Folk claiming to have whooped Hayabusas must have come across some panty hamster who is scared of giving bike death.
But throw some corners in and a well modded and powerful car runs rings round the crotch rocket.
Cam
Same bike against 400hp Skyline - result Skyline pulled 150 yrds initially then bike clawed it back and started pulling away.
Bike rider drops 2 gears at 100mph and he is gaaaawwwnnnn with either car regardless of what car drivers does.
Folk claiming to have whooped Hayabusas must have come across some panty hamster who is scared of giving bike death.
But throw some corners in and a well modded and powerful car runs rings round the crotch rocket.
Cam
18-05-2005, 07:22 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by terrytennick
Originally Posted by the strut brace
your rant is shit, read my post properly never said you would keep up with a really really fast bike so
Right back at ya there fella, i wasnt so much arguing with your post as quoting the quote of it.
Im more than willing to accept that a FAST car will be able to keep up with an average bike.
ive seen it happen more than once, ultimately at top end theres not a lot in it tbh, the limiting factor of a car is how powerful the engine is, the limiting factor on the bike tends to be more the rider, and how big his/her balls are
top whack of an average sports6 is around the 150 mark realistically 140
that puts an average bike in the league of FAST cars. but no driver worth his salt could turn round and say i thrashed a fast bike. cos they didnt.
MADROD COULD
so while you never said you could keep up with a really fast bike. you said a fast bike. which i frankly think is a bit misguided. you could use an example of an R1 say which IS a fast bike. you beaten one of them? NEVER RACED ONE and importantly have you beaten a tuned one. cos unless you compare a FAST standard car
This isnt a dig at you believe me, its just one of my pet hates. people appear to think r6s and thier ilk are 'fast bikes' and are dead proud of 'beating' them in thier highly tuned cars show me a standard cossie (and lets face it even in standard trim a cosse can not be called an average car) that can horse an average bike let alone a fast one and i shall be mostly rather amazed
And ive gone off on one again
sorry
FAIR PLAY FELLA, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN
18-05-2005, 07:25 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by terrytennick
Originally Posted by Doug Stirling
Originally Posted by the strut brace
dont think a hyabusa can do a 9.6 1/4 mile at 161mph,people always throw the bikes into racing cars, tbh i think that bikes are the most overated things going, with the exception of the really really fast bikes , i have had loads and loads of races with bikes, i have several on video when goin-comin to the shows and i seriously do not think they are all that, a fast cozzycan quite easily stay with /beat your average bike, i have raced loads in my cozzy and once bikes seem to get over 70ish they are well within reach of fast cars, call it whatever you want bikelovers , not trying, etc etc etc but they were all flat on the tank and i was raggin the car withtin an inch of its life to do it,i would race a bike once movin and would certainly not be suprised to keep up with it or even beat it. and whats even better you dont look like an extra from the village people while your doin it,
and for the record i have my full bike license and have had it for 12yrs so i aint deluded or blinkered , just my experiance
and for the record i have my full bike license and have had it for 12yrs so i aint deluded or blinkered , just my experiance
I've had exactly the same experiance with EVERY bike that I have raced........trouble is, as soon as you mention it on here (PassionFord) quite a few blinkered bikers will post up that it could not possibly have happened the way I said......they wer'nt there at the time but they are convinced a 511 BHP Cossie it not fast enough (from 120 MPH onwards) to go racing bikes 
Even Rod (Tarry) said that a Cossie with 422 ft/LBS has "no torque" and would be out of i'ts depth trying to race fast bikes take one fast cossie and take one fast bike tuned to the same spec.
anyone that honestly thinks thier car is faster than a bike is mad. or comparing thier TUNED car to a bog standard 600 sports where quite often the only tuning that gets done is a can, filter and some mild jetting.
no way in hell youll ever keep up with a decent supersports... in the cossie. or ANY car for that matter.
(nb a car is going to be faster ROUND the bends. but the bike can go in faster and come out faster.)
eg off the top of my head.
zx12r (already modelled in this thread
)0-60 sub 3s
0-150 in the region of 9.5 seconds.
top whack of around 186 mph (limited)
now those figures are from memory and fairly old. off a standard bike.
thats maybe 8k worth of bike.
show me any 8k car that can do that?
show me any cars that can do that? i know there are a couple so take the money it cost to make a car beat that bike, and spend it on that bike
now were talking.ultimately the most important thing to remember tho is that you cant fall off a car (unless your being REALLY daft
)anyhoo rant over,
back on topic.......Whatre the power losses through a skylines gearbox with all its fancy trickery when compared to the cossies lump of good old cast iron?
18-05-2005, 07:32 PM
#133
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Excuse me but you'll find the proper comparison between an F1 car and a bike would have to be between an F1 car and a MOTOGP bike...
With around 250 BHP to play with they EASILY match the topspeed of an F1 car and as for acceleration it's the same. The only reason the car will corner and brake better is simply because it has more rubber on the ground.
I don't know but I think you have to be quite brave to do what's Schumacher does on a bike so homocyclists?
With around 250 BHP to play with they EASILY match the topspeed of an F1 car and as for acceleration it's the same. The only reason the car will corner and brake better is simply because it has more rubber on the ground.
I don't know but I think you have to be quite brave to do what's Schumacher does on a bike so homocyclists?
18-05-2005, 07:40 PM
#136
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Originally Posted by BROM@ZOO
hi cam
hows your engine going with carwise got any figuers yet just got my head back from karl its a work of art to cud to put on the car
hows your engine going with carwise got any figuers yet just got my head back from karl its a work of art to cud to put on the car
I bought the GTR and Rod Bell is molesting it at the moment.
Cam
18-05-2005, 07:41 PM
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had a 500 bhp r32gtst, 485 bhp cossie, both just over 420 torque, skyline trust 06-25g turbo ext wastegate os giken clutsh all the right bits, cossie t4 mild als, paddle clutch etc. Weighed about the same and the skyine was way quicker, way way quicker. Also had a 450 bhp r32gtr which went round the bends like it was on rails but was alot slower off of the mark than both and acceleration was slower as well. BUT MY 400 BHP 3 DOOR WAS STILL MY FAVOURITE
18-05-2005, 07:48 PM
#138
Originally Posted by Cam
Originally Posted by BROM@ZOO
hi cam
hows your engine going with carwise got any figuers yet just got my head back from karl its a work of art to cud to put on the car
hows your engine going with carwise got any figuers yet just got my head back from karl its a work of art to cud to put on the car
I bought the GTR and Rod Bell is molesting it at the moment.
Cam
good look on the skybus
18-05-2005, 08:10 PM
#139
DEYTUKURJERBS
Originally Posted by 3dr wixsy
had a 500 bhp r32gtst, 485 bhp cossie, both just over 420 torque, skyline trust 06-25g turbo ext wastegate os giken clutsh all the right bits, cossie t4 mild als, paddle clutch etc. Weighed about the same and the skyine was way quicker, way way quicker.
Didnt sound as good as Craigs old car tho
19-05-2005, 12:17 PM
#140
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@cossies4eva....
show me any 8k car that can do that?
show me any cars that can do that? i know there are a couple so take the money it cost to make a car beat that bike, and spend it on that bike now were talking.
...a bike is not even half a car... ..there 2 wheels with an engine between them...
there guys around who say there trashed a bike.....what the fook then if the cars are tuned and the bike not....
if you drive around on a fast bike like an r1 your not thinking about tuning it because its not fast enough.....and so what if you got trashed by a fastcar.....
what your gonna say then..."wait till ive tuned my bike".....
put this damn bike engine in a car the same wheight as a saph....will it be fast.....?
for all the guys who are driving bikes....why cant you take it if you got trashed by a fast car.....
show me any 8k car that can do that?
show me any cars that can do that? i know there are a couple so take the money it cost to make a car beat that bike, and spend it on that bike now were talking.
...a bike is not even half a car... ..there 2 wheels with an engine between them... there guys around who say there trashed a bike.....what the fook then if the cars are tuned and the bike not....
if you drive around on a fast bike like an r1 your not thinking about tuning it because its not fast enough.....and so what if you got trashed by a fastcar.....
what your gonna say then..."wait till ive tuned my bike".....
put this damn bike engine in a car the same wheight as a saph....will it be fast.....?
for all the guys who are driving bikes....why cant you take it if you got trashed by a fast car.....
19-05-2005, 02:43 PM
#142
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if u wanna see a REAL skyline / motorcycle killer just check my new uploaded pics...
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114991
but i have to admit... jap turbo is used here!!!!!
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114991
but i have to admit... jap turbo is used here!!!!!
19-05-2005, 05:25 PM
#145
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Originally Posted by Hooligan
It wouldn't be a problem but I don't come across to many cars capable of 0-62 in 3.0 to 3.5 seconds you tit...
but thats what every biker believe...."i can drive"...
19-05-2005, 05:37 PM
#146
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To all those who think they can keep up with standard bikes, please let me send you or host a video I have of a heavily tuned Dodge Viper (~900bhp IIRC) only just keeping up with a standard bike (Hyabusa) and getting blitzed by modified bikes.
It's in fairly controlled conditions - 3 mile long straight road with no traffic, chase bike (standard busa) with some kind of signal to start the race each time from different rolling speeds or standing. Cameras from chase bike, viper and race bike.
Pretty good comparison of a very fast car barely keeping up with a standard bike. Throw Ł1000's into a car and it only just keeps up with something worth about Ł10k! Makes you think. Then again not a lot of people have the balls to ride bikes or just want the comfort/challenge/fun of a car.
Not starting arguments just stating a point
The vid is about 20mb.
It's in fairly controlled conditions - 3 mile long straight road with no traffic, chase bike (standard busa) with some kind of signal to start the race each time from different rolling speeds or standing. Cameras from chase bike, viper and race bike.
Pretty good comparison of a very fast car barely keeping up with a standard bike. Throw Ł1000's into a car and it only just keeps up with something worth about Ł10k! Makes you think. Then again not a lot of people have the balls to ride bikes or just want the comfort/challenge/fun of a car.
Not starting arguments just stating a point
The vid is about 20mb.
19-05-2005, 05:48 PM
#147
PassionFord Post Troll
i just saw a vid with a supra against a hayabusha.....the supra pulled away like the bike was standing still......and that was with less bhp then the viper above...
you all remember the story of martin hadland with his escos against a bike...with the mondeo also.....you all remember what the biker said...."it was pulling away from me like i was braking"...and that was a modified bike....
you all remember the story of martin hadland with his escos against a bike...with the mondeo also.....you all remember what the biker said...."it was pulling away from me like i was braking"...and that was a modified bike....
19-05-2005, 06:23 PM
#148
Originally Posted by terrytennick
Originally Posted by Doug Stirling
Originally Posted by the strut brace
dont think a hyabusa can do a 9.6 1/4 mile at 161mph,people always throw the bikes into racing cars, tbh i think that bikes are the most overated things going, with the exception of the really really fast bikes , i have had loads and loads of races with bikes, i have several on video when goin-comin to the shows and i seriously do not think they are all that, a fast cozzycan quite easily stay with /beat your average bike, i have raced loads in my cozzy and once bikes seem to get over 70ish they are well within reach of fast cars, call it whatever you want bikelovers , not trying, etc etc etc but they were all flat on the tank and i was raggin the car withtin an inch of its life to do it,i would race a bike once movin and would certainly not be suprised to keep up with it or even beat it. and whats even better you dont look like an extra from the village people while your doin it,
and for the record i have my full bike license and have had it for 12yrs so i aint deluded or blinkered , just my experiance
and for the record i have my full bike license and have had it for 12yrs so i aint deluded or blinkered , just my experiance
I've had exactly the same experiance with EVERY bike that I have raced........trouble is, as soon as you mention it on here (PassionFord) quite a few blinkered bikers will post up that it could not possibly have happened the way I said......they wer'nt there at the time but they are convinced a 511 BHP Cossie it not fast enough (from 120 MPH onwards) to go racing bikes Even Rod (Tarry) said that a Cossie with 422 ft/LBS has "no torque" and would be out of i'ts depth trying to race fast bikes take one fast cossie and take one fast bike tuned to the same spec.
anyone that honestly thinks thier car is faster than a bike is mad. or comparing thier TUNED car to a bog standard 600 sports where quite often the only tuning that gets done is a can, filter and some mild jetting.
no way in hell youll ever keep up with a decent supersports... in the cossie. or ANY car for that matter.
(nb a car is going to be faster ROUND the bends. but the bike can go in faster and come out faster.)
eg off the top of my head.
zx12r (already modelled in this thread
)0-60 sub 3s
0-150 in the region of 9.5 seconds.
top whack of around 186 mph (limited)
now those figures are from memory and fairly old. off a standard bike.
thats maybe 8k worth of bike.
show me any 8k car that can do that?
show me any cars that can do that? i know there are a couple so take the money it cost to make a car beat that bike, and spend it on that bike
now were talking.ultimately the most important thing to remember tho is that you cant fall off a car (unless your being REALLY daft
)anyhoo rant over,
back on topic.......Whatre the power losses through a skylines gearbox with all its fancy trickery when compared to the cossies lump of good old cast iron?
someone with sence - and yes my bike is limited to 186mph, but a mere Ł100 will see that removed and knocking on the door of 200mph, a small amount of Ł500 extra will see rods 208 mph
tis an old chestnut tho the bike v cars - tho i do still love it, almost the same as the impreza driver did when he was at 160mph and i was still sat behind him
tho i would like to see my bikes accelleration - say 70 - 150 against the fastest cars around here ????
tbh - i cant ride it to its potential but i would give it a go - special invites only please
19-05-2005, 06:47 PM
#149
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most bikes that get beaten by cars is for one reason only, the rider.
the bikes you are talking about r1, marks zx12r etc cannot be ridden to there limit by 99% of riders. it takes someone really special to wring every last ounce of performance out of machinery like this especially when its not in a straight line.
i reckon if i raced mark across the moss [ twisty bends ] i would beat him. if i raced him on a fast a road or straight i wouldnt see which way he went.
the bikes you are talking about r1, marks zx12r etc cannot be ridden to there limit by 99% of riders. it takes someone really special to wring every last ounce of performance out of machinery like this especially when its not in a straight line.
i reckon if i raced mark across the moss [ twisty bends ] i would beat him. if i raced him on a fast a road or straight i wouldnt see which way he went.
19-05-2005, 08:48 PM
#150
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Anyone interested in this accurately timed by datron comparison?
Shame theres no Skyline in there, but it shows how damn quick an F1 car is.. lol
Shame theres no Skyline in there, but it shows how damn quick an F1 car is.. lol
mental!!! When are we going to see the new one, I miss that rocket ship round pod and RS track days and stuff 
19-05-2005, 09:15 PM
#152
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Originally Posted by AD-RS1600i
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Anyone interested in this accurately timed by datron comparison?
Shame theres no Skyline in there, but it shows how damn quick an F1 car is.. lol
Shame theres no Skyline in there, but it shows how damn quick an F1 car is.. lol
mental!!! When are we going to see the new one, I miss that rocket ship round pod and RS track days and stuff
20-05-2005, 06:38 AM
#153
Bikes round doningtion lap in roughly the same speed as the cars...
1.20-1.30
They are so much slower through craner but have guns on most cars down the straights which makes it even.
0-70/80 most bikes will always win
70-160 its totally different
And bends in another story
Coming back from karl's last week i destroyed a GSX-R600 from around 80-90 to 140, simply pulled away from it. From the next set of lights he wasted me.....until i hit 3rd gear then started to come back.
I know its not an R1 or owt but a 600 aint slow.
As for skylines, black one at dono - 500bhp - its slow, very slow - now either the driver is full of shit and its 280bhp or he simply can't drive. OR its just not fast.
1.20-1.30
They are so much slower through craner but have guns on most cars down the straights which makes it even.
0-70/80 most bikes will always win
70-160 its totally different
And bends in another story
Coming back from karl's last week i destroyed a GSX-R600 from around 80-90 to 140, simply pulled away from it. From the next set of lights he wasted me.....until i hit 3rd gear then started to come back.
I know its not an R1 or owt but a 600 aint slow.
As for skylines, black one at dono - 500bhp - its slow, very slow - now either the driver is full of shit and its 280bhp or he simply can't drive. OR its just not fast.
20-05-2005, 07:38 AM
#155
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Less
Question is how many people arguing on this thread have drove either cars to make a comparision
20-05-2005, 07:50 AM
#156
Originally Posted by dingy
Originally Posted by martin-reyland
Originally Posted by Less
Question is how many people arguing on this thread have drove either cars to make a comparision
20-05-2005, 08:05 PM
#159
Originally Posted by Itsmeagain
FPMSL@ "cossies have an advantage in the bends" Tell that to the RS500s in the Aussie and Asian Touring Car Championchips from 1990 on
In all honesty youd expect a 500bhp Cossie to out accelerate it due to weighing roughly 250kg less (tho early R32GTRs weigh same if not less than late EscCossies...), but TOTB1 results seem to say different...
Heres a quote from summer 2002, mere days after the very first TOTB...
Tell that to the RS500s in the Aussie and Asian Touring Car Championchips from 1990 on In all honesty youd expect a 500bhp Cossie to out accelerate it due to weighing roughly 250kg less (tho early R32GTRs weigh same if not less than late EscCossies...), but TOTB1 results seem to say different...
Heres a quote from summer 2002, mere days after the very first TOTB...
Two 3 door rear wheel drive RS's:
Andy Wornell 126mph at 500m
Rob Wiles 123mph at 500m
Both with claimed 500+bhp on the website.
Pick a few of our GTRs at 500m:
Andy Barnes 130mph (550bhp est)
Glen H 127mph (540+bhp)
Mike Smith 126mph (515bhp)
The GTRs also pulled higher 1.25mile times, so in conclusion:
The GTRs were better off the line.
The GTRs were travelling faster at 500m (ie were not being caught)
The GTRs were travelling much faster at 1.25miles.
So if the 500+bhp Cossies are slower than the GTRs, how is a 420bhp Cossie ever going to keep up?
I use the speed at 500m, since that is a determinant of rate of acceleration from meaningful speeds ie 30mph+. The traction really only has an effect on the ET (elapsed time), hence why I ignored the times.
Again I'm not putting the Cossies down, but your comments about needing 700bhp in a GTR are just plain wrong, even Ronnie doesn't have 700bhp!
Andy Wornell 126mph at 500m
Rob Wiles 123mph at 500m
Both with claimed 500+bhp on the website.
Pick a few of our GTRs at 500m:
Andy Barnes 130mph (550bhp est)
Glen H 127mph (540+bhp)
Mike Smith 126mph (515bhp)
The GTRs also pulled higher 1.25mile times, so in conclusion:
The GTRs were better off the line.
The GTRs were travelling faster at 500m (ie were not being caught)
The GTRs were travelling much faster at 1.25miles.
So if the 500+bhp Cossies are slower than the GTRs, how is a 420bhp Cossie ever going to keep up?
I use the speed at 500m, since that is a determinant of rate of acceleration from meaningful speeds ie 30mph+. The traction really only has an effect on the ET (elapsed time), hence why I ignored the times.
Again I'm not putting the Cossies down, but your comments about needing 700bhp in a GTR are just plain wrong, even Ronnie doesn't have 700bhp!
Rod
ps. Can i ask when you are going to do something mate instead of talking shit & Knocking others. Under a previous user name you once told me not very politely you were building a car to break all RWD Cossie records, it was Shite like every thing else you spout.
