Anonymous

When we tested the shims, we didn't test all the geometry, just the feel of the car.

PLaced in back 2 bolts to toe in the front of the wheel slightly....

Koni's and GRPA Tarmac Billies...

Honest answer - 3 people drove, not one person noticed any change in feel, hence the waste of money, think they are only a tenner tho so not too bad.

Kevin B

Cant really comment on how they affect the handling as we did all the suspension at the same time, but it has certainly improved rear tyre wear on my 4X4 Saph

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

They made mine handle distinctly strangely (4x4 Saph).

Felt like it had much less grip at the back if anything

Yes I did fit them correctly!

I think they're probably still in the paddock at Croft rusting away quietly!

Neil.

Kevin B

Mine does slide more now, but I put that down to the coilovers/whole new suspension set up

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

This was under mid-bend, light/medium throttle conditions, and didnt make me horny at all

It must just be me though, as everyone else is raving about them

Neil.

rs cos

i fitted them to my old 4x4 saph, noticed it was a wee bit better in a straight line at high speeds! now mike you owe me a pint

Anonymous

If its improved tyre wear it certainly sounds like its going to help straight line launches as both launching and tyre wear rely on having the full tyre in contact and tracked pretty straight, handling is a lot less simple though and is often the opposite, especially where camber is concerned.
Throw in the fact that the geometry all changes as the suspension compresses and it gets to be more of a nightmare, so basically trial and error is often the best way, so if the shims work for others its worth trying it at least, although i suspect that the manufacturing tolerances on the beams etc are far enough away from car to car though that you probably need a different thickness to suit your car really and probably different on each side too, mass produced cars are pretty shonky really, especially cheap and cheerful ones like a sierra.

Dan@Rapid-Ford

iTrader: (5)

same here. when I launched the car it felt like it it would crab slightly and when letting off after hard accelerating the car felt really light and horrible

mine are also sitting some where rusting away.

cheers

RichardPON

I think the lesson is this though.

Don't try and correct the camber if it doesn't need correcting.

Mike'll be the first to tell you that it's a little unscientific to put the shims in without knowing how out of whack (if at all) the settings are...........

..... and before anyone starts, this is cossies we're talking about, so you can bet your ass that not one of them is particularly straight

Anonymous

Mass produced 80s litter sadly

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Well firstly, you're supposed to check the geometry before and after , as you are trying to achieve a small amount of static toe-in. This is because when moving forward, the bushes deflect and this will then give you the parrallel setting that Ford recommend. If you set a Cossie to parrallell statically, the bush deflection causes the wheels to toe out, which scrubs the inside of the tyres, causing the wear on the inside edges that all Cossies seem to suffer from.

Obviously if your car has more toe one side than the other (due to a bent trailing arm or such, which is COMMON on Cossies, as they're not the strongest of items), then fitting these shims will exagerate that and WILL cause unusual handling characteristics .

As to stating they don't do anything, well if you take a photo before and after you can physically SEE the difference in the camber (less negative ), so saying that you need 4mm shims to achieve this is crazy, as that would put so much load on the hub to the point that I would personally consider it dangerous.

The shims do exactly what I state, if fitted correctly and the geometry has been checked and is as it "should" be .
1. Improve tyre wear.
2. Improve traction.
3. Improve on the limit handling (slides are easier to recover / control).

Anonymous

Camber is were the top of the wheel is not 90 degree's to the floor aint it ?

How does the shims alter this ?

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

I have the geometry data from my setup at home, I'll post it later, but it was roughly within spec, and was certainly straight


Neil.

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

Beacuse one of the shims goes ABOVE the centreline of the hub axle

Neil.

Jim Galbally

by making it not 90degrees to the floor

JAP CRAP

MIke, my tyres wear badly on the inside. I take it these would sort this??

can you fit them for me?

Anonymous

same added from both sides of the axle tho, from top to bottom.

Turbo lag

Can you do the work on my car Mike,
and how far are you away from Preston ?

Dave.

JAP CRAP

You have to have slept with Mike on more than 10 occasions to get his special services im afraid

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Dave,
I'm 230 miles from you .

Dom,
You're still 3 sleeps away from the required amount .

Anonymous

Nice answer to my q mike and PMSL @ you working on car...

Do you know the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer

Anonymous

As far as i can tell mike is good at knowing what needs to be done, but feck all use at doing it so gets other people to?

Is that about right?

(its what his mrs said anyway)

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

LOL @ Chip - thats right - He even gets the guy at the petrol station to fill it up in case he breaks a nail!

Ill take this then:

Neil.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I have an obsessive compulsive disorder where I don't like getting my hands dirty . However, when needs must and all that, I do actually work on my own car (much to the surprise of everyone, as the cameras all come out if it is at a trackday etc ).

Anonymous

Furry Muff, you can clean the screen, after visting PONBEACH

Now please explain by placing the shims in a cossie it alters the camber when the are placed in the back half of the flange that bolts to the wheel.

CozzyBrom

thats funny mike i take it u have scrapped the zoo beam then

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Steve,
Go figure it out yourself .

Brom you moron, why would I want to do that . It is FAR superior to the shims and I wanted the BEST way of adjustment, hence the Zoo beam is on my car. The shims are are a halfway house and at Ł10 are a good idea to improve the inherent flaws in the standard set-up (without the expense of a replacement beam), but they do not fix the way the suspension proscibes an arc in it's up and down movement, which the Zoo / Ahmed beam does .

I have only ever advocated the shims as a cheap and cheerful way of improving things, so have no idea where you're coming from .

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

The only way I can think of is if the hub mounting holes were moved enough (as the supension compresses) to get the one that is normally top rear above the one that is normally top front. If you follow me.

Neil.

CozzyBrom

mike
i am not sayin that your saying there better
but you state u have them on your car and it handles loads better
so have u fitted them aswell or did you have them fitted before becuse when i fitted the beam there was no shims there
as for armed beam i carnt say i have only eva seen warren kellys and personally dint think it was up to the job
no strapping no toe in ajustment i dont no what pick up points he used but i coped mine design of a rs500 add extra bits to the normal beam
we do a road beam with out strapping now which is alot more easyer to make and is loads cheaper

Anonymous

How much does a Zoo beam cost?

How significant is the difference as ive not ever been in a car equipped with one?

RichardPON

Shut it slaag



I think Mike just prefers "project managing" other people - hence why we were all changing his brake discs at the Ring, and he was pacing up and down like a taskmaster!

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Brom,
I had them on my Sapphire before I had the Ahmed beam .

Rich,
As I said, when needs must I do get my hands dirty (translation: when there is no-one else around willing to get their hands dirty ).

Neil S

iTrader: (1)

LOL @ PON

This is how I meant:



Neil.

Anonymous

So then Mike, you add shims to the front or rear of the wheel, and it causes toe-in....

As your shims create camber - i think its not possible..

The rear beam drops thus creating toe out and making the wheels straight rather than toe-in which is what you are doing.

With out the shims the wheels when sinking do this create toe out when squating ?

CozzyBrom

chip theres loads out there
beam start from Ł550 for a road beam no strapping
rally beam Ł750
race tublair beam Ł850
then jag beams Ł1050
mike
paul egg
wez
martoon
me
sean b
loyed
jamsport
rod tarry
karl n
doug
loads
and far more off the site
most beams i sold are to rally boys wanting the brom aproach

Anonymous

550 doesnt sound like a lot of money if it sorts out a genuine problem

Anonymous

Thought matron had a proper beam now brom

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Steve,
Why don't you measure the toe / camber of the car you were going to fit them on, re-fit them and then come and report the results .

CozzyBrom

he does now as he has built the car around it
to the cage
but he has it on his old one

CozzyBrom

yes it does sort out the problems
and all beams are made in same jig and all uses same pick up points