Turbo options for 600-650hp on a YB...
#81
PassionFord Post Troll
I think these kind of threads are invaluable to somebody building just think how many tens of thousands have been spent by others to get this knowledge and information free r+d can't beat it
#83
Don't think Mark mentioned anything other than Evo or YB builds & he is a fairly competent chappie to assess the merits of those. Of course other Turbos work & if you spend the 200k on a car like Gobstopper your a mug if it don't work. We are talking a budget build YB here built to a typical spec with the only variable is a bolt on Turbo. On these engines the EFR rules, if you are building a race engine with the gearbox to suit other Turbos may make more Power & the loss lower down wont matter. Its horses for courses race engines are as far away from road engines as you can get.
I dont doubt EFR's are very good but from the previous thread the main thing I took from it wasnt that they appeared outstanding, just more that the graphs of GT30's seemed diabolically shit compared to how they perform on other engines
Of course a graph is just a graph, and doesnt always tell how it performs on the road.
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turbotrev (09-12-2015)
#84
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Mark
#85
PassionFord Regular
The 7163 is actually the smallest twin scroll EFR I believe unless things have changed. It`s the smaller frame size than the 7064 and I would class it as a 450-500hp turbo. Response time it looks very good though. You would need a good intercooler, like a Spec-R unit to make the best of it at the higher boost levels. it will do 60lbs/hr whereas the 7064 will do only 56lbs/hr but that only tells one side of the story.
As with anything it depends what spec you are looking for.
#86
PassionFord Post Whore!!
#87
PassionFord Regular
That`s interesting you say that as I know you tried one recently or do I have that wrong. Is it because it`s too much of a restriction? I am torque limited because of traction issues so was looking at maxing out at approx. 28psi. with a 7163.
That is even if I can get a twin scroll manifold custom made to fit in the space restricted Westfield.
This is probably why the gt3076 worked so well because of the high boost threshold, by the time I came on boost traction issues were less of a problem as it was 4500+ for full boost.
#88
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
Do you need to run high boost (30+ lb) to see the high torque figures on the efr turbos?
Cheers Paul
Cheers Paul
#90
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Mark, did you see this post?
So can you use an efr on a std 2wd manifold?
I understand it would be better on a new one but would it be better than say a Gt series on a std 2wd manifold?
And what housing would be best? A very quick google shoes that most of the twin scroll are T4 flange and the T3 flange is single scroll?
I've got. t34 .63 on a ported head (24.5mm inlets I think, not sure on exhaust, Neil roper head) with a std exhaust cam and bd14 inlet, spaced, ported and flowed 4wd inlet and 2wd exhaust manifold.
What would a 7064 do on an engine like that?
So can you use an efr on a std 2wd manifold?
I understand it would be better on a new one but would it be better than say a Gt series on a std 2wd manifold?
And what housing would be best? A very quick google shoes that most of the twin scroll are T4 flange and the T3 flange is single scroll?
I've got. t34 .63 on a ported head (24.5mm inlets I think, not sure on exhaust, Neil roper head) with a std exhaust cam and bd14 inlet, spaced, ported and flowed 4wd inlet and 2wd exhaust manifold.
What would a 7064 do on an engine like that?
#91
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Mark, did you see this post?
So can you use an efr on a std 2wd manifold?
I understand it would be better on a new one but would it be better than say a Gt series on a std 2wd manifold?
And what housing would be best? A very quick google shoes that most of the twin scroll are T4 flange and the T3 flange is single scroll?
I've got. t34 .63 on a ported head (24.5mm inlets I think, not sure on exhaust, Neil roper head) with a std exhaust cam and bd14 inlet, spaced, ported and flowed 4wd inlet and 2wd exhaust manifold.
What would a 7064 do on an engine like that?
So can you use an efr on a std 2wd manifold?
I understand it would be better on a new one but would it be better than say a Gt series on a std 2wd manifold?
And what housing would be best? A very quick google shoes that most of the twin scroll are T4 flange and the T3 flange is single scroll?
I've got. t34 .63 on a ported head (24.5mm inlets I think, not sure on exhaust, Neil roper head) with a std exhaust cam and bd14 inlet, spaced, ported and flowed 4wd inlet and 2wd exhaust manifold.
What would a 7064 do on an engine like that?
Mark
#93
10K+ Poster!!
I am not sure this 2nd hand one would do 600bhp but shows you can buy them cheaply
https://passionford.com/forum/ford-r...oll-turbo.html
https://passionford.com/forum/ford-r...oll-turbo.html
#95
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
The EFR has the lightest / most efficient compressor-turbine assembly on the market for their size. The titanium turbine makes it faster spooling than all other brands currently on inconel. Titanium is half the density to that of steel, which makes a huge difference in moment of inertia. BW utilize the lighter material to form a more efficient turbine wheel than what's achieved with inconel, due to mass. A EFR turbine design made of inconel would result in a very laggy turbo..
#96
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
That does look reasonably priced Caddyshack.
Would still need a fancy manifold though.
Would be interesting to see a efr on a standard 2wd manifold
Cheers Paul
Would still need a fancy manifold though.
Would be interesting to see a efr on a standard 2wd manifold
Cheers Paul
#98
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
In my opinion the place a efr really shines in in transient response due to the titanium exhaust wheel which makes the car much more drivable at low rpms. As a example comparing say a 7670 to a GTX30 both in single scroll format the difference in power curves on the dyno are minimal yet on the road the efr feels more lively. On a drag strip I predict there would be little difference.
Here is a link to perrin's comparison of the efr's and gtx range a few years ago on a Subaru 2.5 sti.
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/bo...-tuned-part-2/
Here is a link to perrin's comparison of the efr's and gtx range a few years ago on a Subaru 2.5 sti.
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/bo...-tuned-part-2/
#100
PassionFord Post Troll
I think crazycage is running an efr on a zetec give him a shout mate look up the other efr post I'm sure he mentioned it on thier
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james kiely (10-12-2015)
#101
PassionFord Post Troll
Physics.
The EFR has the lightest / most efficient compressor-turbine assembly on the market for their size. The titanium turbine makes it faster spooling than all other brands currently on inconel. Titanium is half the density to that of steel, which makes a huge difference in moment of inertia. BW utilize the lighter material to form a more efficient turbine wheel than what's achieved with inconel, due to mass. A EFR turbine design made of inconel would result in a very laggy turbo..
The EFR has the lightest / most efficient compressor-turbine assembly on the market for their size. The titanium turbine makes it faster spooling than all other brands currently on inconel. Titanium is half the density to that of steel, which makes a huge difference in moment of inertia. BW utilize the lighter material to form a more efficient turbine wheel than what's achieved with inconel, due to mass. A EFR turbine design made of inconel would result in a very laggy turbo..
#102
PassionFord Post Whore!!
#106
PassionFord Post Whore!!
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james kiely (10-12-2015)
#109
Oil journals, some of their new SXE range are nice, but a big S200SXE would probably fit the bill better for around 600hp on a 2.0
http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...1-12769095003/
A lot of them use the exact same compressor wheel as the EFR, just oil journal and different turbine wheel and much cheaper of course.
I'd think even the smallest 300 would be quite laggy on a Cossie ? Smallest billet wheel 300 is either a cast 60mm wheel or billet 62mm ( inducer sizes )
http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...8-13009097056/
http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...1-12769095003/
A lot of them use the exact same compressor wheel as the EFR, just oil journal and different turbine wheel and much cheaper of course.
I'd think even the smallest 300 would be quite laggy on a Cossie ? Smallest billet wheel 300 is either a cast 60mm wheel or billet 62mm ( inducer sizes )
http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...8-13009097056/
#111
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Mark
#112
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
As the manlfold plays 50% of the gain when using an efr what about running a custom exhaust manifold with say a gt35 or gt40?
Would you gain much over the standard 2wd manifold?
Cheers Paul
Would you gain much over the standard 2wd manifold?
Cheers Paul
#113
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Mark
#114
Advanced PassionFord User
Thread Starter
And Rod used to run that setup years back?
With a custom manifold or on the 2wd unit?
Cheers Paul
With a custom manifold or on the 2wd unit?
Cheers Paul
#115
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Mark
#116
Regular Contributor
#117
Whilst not twin scroll, Powermax here in Cookstown has had the Aussie company 6 Boost make some YB manifolds recently
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7085682&type=3
#118
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
if money is a factor, go the gtx route. the compromise will be that it wont be anywhere near the efr in terms of response ect BUT if you can afford it in the foreseeable the get the efr. im of the belief, do it right, do it once. the gtx will probably do everything you want, it just wont do it quite as well as the efr. theres allways a compromise when it comers to money. to say rod has been hypocritical by preaching get the best available having used many different turbo's is pointless. im sure rods car used the best available at that time, added to that he was using the car at a compettion level of sorts. for what its worth I think the precision turbo's aren't quite up to scratch when it comes to reliability. don't take my word for it though, its just a thread I saw regarding turbo's and precision cropped up
#119
PassionFord Post Whore!!
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The Enigma (12-12-2015)
#120
PassionFord Post Whore!!
if money is a factor, go the gtx route. the compromise will be that it wont be anywhere near the efr in terms of response ect BUT if you can afford it in the foreseeable the get the efr. im of the belief, do it right, do it once. the gtx will probably do everything you want, it just wont do it quite as well as the efr. theres allways a compromise when it comers to money. to say rod has been hypocritical by preaching get the best available having used many different turbo's is pointless. im sure rods car used the best available at that time, added to that he was using the car at a compettion level of sorts. for what its worth I think the precision turbo's aren't quite up to scratch when it comes to reliability. don't take my word for it though, its just a thread I saw regarding turbo's and precision cropped up
Mark
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mgtkr1 (12-12-2015)