carrying on from the magazine thread, and rods comment that no one is spending the money on modifying here's the question:

If a tuner builds a car is it the same? Or if a guy who owns a body shop does something? When these cars get featured does it take away from the rest of the crowd? And buying stuff to build your car is the same as paying someone to do it for you isn't it?

 

I'm reshelling a mk4 Rs turbo, never done anything like it but it's satisfying! Il call in a pro if I need it, maybe to check the wiring, built not bought is def my motto but when reading a thread or mag that has professionals doing it or owning it can help give ideas or inspiration for me it's all about the mix of content available to ppl like you and I

 

if your paying someone to actually fit parts to your car - bought
if you are fitting stuff to your own car - built

 

I always assumed it referred to modifying your car rather than buying one already modified/recognised and taking credit for it when it was someone else's ideas had made it what it was. I think the majority of people need to use professional help when building a feature car and undertaking certain tasks.

 

some good points, some tasks are above people's skills or they want them to be perfect (i.e. painting/welding)

 

way too many checkbook kings out there that dont know one end of the spanner from another but usually claim they built their cars

 

I had the engine built in my car but that was it
And that only cause I couldn't afford it to go bang .
The rest I made or modified as my pockets ain't that deep lol
and fit it all up is part of the fun

To list a few I made the varible length trumpet/water cooled plenium
Inter cooler
Wheels
Adjustable top mounts
Half the cage
Alloy bells
Inlet scoop
Rear mounted rad install
Bias pedal box

And so on so on
so I would like to think I made mine

I feel you respect it more when it's made
Rather than just paying someone to do it

But that said some people should never be aloud to work
On cars lol

 

If I bought a plot of land and applied for planning then got and architect to design a property, would I say I built my own house if I paid a ground worker to dig the footings, a bricks to back it up, scarky to wire it or do I need to physically lift every brick and whittle the Window frames from an old tree?

I would say I built my own house even if the trades did the grafting.

Same with a car, I would say if you drop your car off at a shop and come back to a finished article then maybe it is bought, if you do what you can and direct other people then built.

 

I've seen many built not bought stickers in saxos, corsas etc, all with miss matching paint, huge bumpers in primer on 13" skinny steels so all built not bought means to me is its a piece of shit.
I agree on the cheque book cowboy comment, putting something together you should at least have a good idea what your buying and why and how it works and goes together.

 

Too bloody true..
For me its about enjoying cars not look at me my cars better than yours.

 

But does that mean that the engine Harvey (other tuners are available) built and mapped (other tuners are available) for your car was bought even though you fitted it yourself?

On my estates I've done everything myself other than paint, which means I've built them, but if I now wanted to give it to west coast customs for a buggati engine swap that I pay for then I've bought it right?

 

I do 90% of the work on my car but I am having my engine built. If mine had gone back together as it was I'd have built that myself as I've no issues building engines and have built more than I can count at work. But I'm putting 3 - 4 times the power that engine is meant to have put into it now so that's a very different story and the point wear you with out doubt need the time served experience to get a engine that will do the numbers you want and reliably

 

From a practical point, unless you have a good garage with either a pit or ramp its pretty difficult trying to do all the work yourself on your driveway or out on the road, especially when its pissing down ! For some jobs you need the car up on a ramp.
I am looking at building a decent sized garage on the end of my bungalow as I would love to be able to do more to the car myself.

 

Lots of opinions which is great. I could not have built mine that's taken a Top Tuner my knowledge as a designer & others that have skills I do not have, I try always to use the best. Its always how fast can you afford to go & using the best people you can afford if your aim is to build the best/fastest. 1- PD sees me as a cheque book king well perhaps he should have worked as hard as I did to get money & not waste his life on a Ford internet Forum. I take offence to that statement Steve its cars like mine that have raised the bar of Cosworth tuning do you really want it to be stuck with the average owner out there to progress things. This scene is at a very low ebb without knocking those that try to push it on. I assume you pull your own kids teeth & operate on your family when they are ill or do you use pro's.

 

Don't think anyone is knocking you rod, my main point was that if someone like Martin or Harvey have built their cars, do they could as having been built or bought?

If you were a builder and built your house rather than had someone build a house for you or you simply went out and bought what you liked, where is the line drawn that you've done it yourself?

Too many people out the sticker on because they've put in a stereo or changed the wheels, so what is actually "built"?

Think you've been a bit harsh on Steve in that post mate, even though I get the sentiment

 

Rod you have rolled your sleeves up and got involved and knew what you wanted so nobody was pointing any fingers at you at all, anyone with contacts or expertise in certain fields you use them as it would be foolish not to, a checkbook king is someone who buys a std car takes it to various firms and gets them to do everything then boasts in mags he built it rather than stating he had it built because he had the cash, so dont be so touchy you old goat

as for going off track mentioning family wtf is that about ? my post was made before you even decided to add your farthings worth and what I do with my time has sod all to do with anyone you included and if I am wasting my time with ford stuff wtf are you doing with a white taxi , yes your car was impressive and mark did a great job on it "back in the day" but lets face it it been in bits for so many years now most on the net dont even know it or care anymore as life moves on its called history

 

Just read through some of rods posts he only comes on here to show us how much money he is spending or telling everyone their cars are shit because his was faster, bloody has been and well said 1-pd btw

 

bit harsh there mate, i read steves post and see nothing to suggest his comment was aimed at you

 

I have always looked at it that if you got the car as is then its brought,
if you got it, then modified it to what it becomes then its built, if you managed to do most of the work yourself then its personal pride thats hightened rather than if you paid a tuner or garage to do it.

 

the only things i didnt do to mine was paint it or map it..only be cause i cant lol . ok i didnt make all the components but i did build the car

 

Who really gives a toss if its your car for you and not to impress others I think thier 2 types in this game those that do it for attension and those that do it because its in thier blood I've had projects going since I was 14 built my own stripped an engine with a Haynes bare shelled the car and put every nut and bolt back in it covers in grease and oil down the unit until the a.m. turned the key and it ran for years all self taught id be selfish to do this now I have a family I like to have days out with and spend time with I work to hard and drive thousands of miles a month my current project is my dream and will be put together by the best I can afford I'm doing it one last time so won't compromise on a dream people worry to much what others think not me I don't know you I'm doing this for me I don't give a toss

 

Building a car that's fast in a straight line doesn't impress me at all tbh..I respect people like andrew Gallagher and Ronnie amis that build and race ...They actually use the spanners and don't pay someone to do it .

 

See that Lewis Hamilton got no respect for him Mercedes built it

 

I guess it all comes down to what you use your car for as not everyone likes the track. One of them names is a professional race car builder so will no doubt turn out top spec cars as he dose. The other is a pure track car with to be fair no better chassis set up than the car that's takes the straight line name tag off people lol which to also be fair has the best of everything that can go on one to make it corner very very well. I'd also have to say there be a point in anyone's life wear building a car physically becomes impossible and that point is way before the age of 70+ in my opinion

 

Building a straight line car and drag strip cars bore me to death ..no talent needed ..track or lanes ..that is what interests ME.

And the 2 examples are just a few that do that and actually spanner there own car also ..that's talent under your own steam .

 

Don't interest me at all but I doubt a top fuel dragster driver would agree haha

 

 

People miss the point with a car that dose top speed runs. They see the number at the end. They don't see or appreciate how massively fast that car has to be on the move to get the end goal in that short distance. And what makes a home build lesser power car any faster on the twits than a car that has the best of everything and no traction issues as a result of that leaves me laughing to myself

 

Well said mate. Years ago I thought nothing of me and my mates spending all night with a pizza and a few beers tinkering untill the early hours most weekends helping each other modifying/building cars etc. now my Cossie sits in the garage for months at a time without even being touched and I have a list of "to dos" as long as your arm, but I have a 2 year old daughter and not a massive income anymore so money's tight but I concentrate on family days out and sorting my health out nowadays but the cossies still there in the garage and every now and again I'll get a Saturday completely to myself so I'll drive it to work and spend 8 hours fixing bits on it, plus if there's a car show we all fancy going to
Well all jump in the Cossie as a family I'll never be able to mod it anymore than the stage 3 it is now but I bought and fitted all the goodies before little one was born and now it just needs upkeep and general running repairs as and when and we can enjoy it as a family. (And eventually a respray lol) unless your very well off or own your own garage/business then it's hard to find the time and money to do these cars once u have a family. Good thing with my job as a mechanic I get to swing my spanners and tinker all day everyday and use the place to work on the Cossie as and when so I save a fortune in labour time there. Had I not been a mechanic no way in a million years could I afford a car like that unless I was also very mechanically minded like some very good "weekend mechanics" I know and some on here who build these wonderful cars who teach themselves, very impressive stuff

 

theres only so much I can do myself since im not a spanner monkey. engine internals and fitting is best left to someone that knows what theyre doing. im quite happy to tackle anything else myself though.
who cares if some call it bought? since when did it only count if you done every single nut and bolt yourself?

 

Unless you've worked at Dagenham Halewood etc you really never built it anyway some folk are handy with cars some folk aren't. If you tell someone you did all the work on it and you never you're a fanny who's only kidding himself!

 

I know some serious good guys who are not mechanics by trade but can build a car to a high standard and fix a majority of faults.

I'm an engineer by trade but have a great interest in cars and now work in restoration of vintage and classic cars with stupid price tags.

Not everyone can do everything but imo if you can do over 70% then its built.

 

There has been a lot of opinions on this but I still ask the Question , if you havent got access to a decent sized , waterproof , secure ,well lit garage how are you going to build a car yourself at home ? How many of the "built" cars mentioned could have been done without a garage? Some people have no choice and have to get the work done by someone else.

 

theres no denying that cars that have been built to a high standard in the owners garage demands a fair bit of kudos. i see nothing wrong in getting the experts to build big power engines though. they have a fair idea of how to get them to hold togethor as they have seem them shit themselves time after time therefor know the usual weakness's. same with mapping/painting to a certain extent. theres 2 ways you could describe built not bought i suppose. buying a car then tuning, making your own by having pro's do most techi stuff or the guy who builds a majority of it himself, from tuning to painting to making bespoke bits. i have as much respect for cars like rods who have been built by a top tuner to the guy who built the wide arch yb powered mk2 in his garage. bth equally impressive

 

most important thing to me is ford enthusiam as I have little interest in non fords tbh but I can appreciate time and effort gone into any car, pretty sure the OP meant this thread in the way I took it and that was people with big mouths in mags and shows and on the net who shout and show off they built a car when in fact ALL the work was subbed out so they never even got dirt under their finger nails in any aspect of the car, it makes perfect sense to get a pro to build you an engine or a specialist fabricator to do bodywork etc as that nobody would question that as I would and have done the same myself, does not matter to me if its a RS or a humble base model as long as it wears the blue oval

 

Exactly Scott thats how it is and whats fuckin funny is peoples perception of Rods car is just straight line it is quite well planted well it was when i went in it with 700bhp and I see gallager and Ronnie Amis being used as example car builders well again there isnt a car built that hasnt had to have many parts supplied or made ect by out sourcing so no one can be that skilled they can do and make everything so most are a good percentage bought .

As I am getting older time is to valuable to spend it on hours and hours fuckin about with shite 1 Order it and fit lol , Only when budget dont allow do I get my hands dirty these days

 

A fast car is a fast car whoever built it. I can see why people take pride in doing it themselves but thats a personal thing really. A chequebook car is no worse a car than someone who did it all DIY.

 

but that goes back to my original question mat, if you are a tuner who then builds their own car, it is "built" because you created it or "bought" because you used your contacts in the trade and your skills to fabricate the best car you could to show off your "mad skillz"?

i replaced every single nut bolt wire and panel (other than the painting) that there was on my sierra estate, i'm still pissed off because people have said that, pre internet, it couldn't have been as fast as it was because there were other cars out there with stickers on that were supposedly quicker

most of my work done on my car was done while it was my daily driver, and it was done on my drive because there was a pool table in my garage time, ability, skill, all that does't mean squat if you can't actually be bothered to do stuff yourself

but nowadays it's not about being fast, it's about being "euro" and "stanced" and "rat look" and "my car looks like a sack of shit and i can't get over speed humps" and shit like that

the performance is now secondary to the look, yet you can buy stuff nowadays that gives you 9/10ths the performance of an older FAST car for 9/10ths of the cost

 

Theirs jelous bitches in a walks of life they gets on my tits a horrible trait its usually people that have no ambition or drive to go get it themselves so slag others that do and have my m.o.t man rang me yesterday wants 300 to get my work shitter through I only paid 350 for it 3 yrs ago I could do it myself for 120 just no time case in point

 

Even if you subbied the work out you can still claim to have built it because you commissioned the job in the first place and without that it wouldn't exist.
its like all those 'self builds' in grand designs . They built nothing themselves personally but they can still claim they built their own house.