Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Got a warning off a copper for basically taking a short cut/long cut to bypass a que of traffic saying that he could do me for inconsiderate/careless driving.

I disagree....

Basically two lane road and a third "turn right" lane which i go down daily to work. At the time i leave it is always queing 3-400 yards back to the next set of lights.

So what i do is, perfectly within my lanes and driving correctly, stay in the second straight ahead lane and go pass my junction. The 2 lanes merge to one and the dual carriageway ends and there is a no U turn sign for obvious reasons.

So i dont do a u turn.

I turn right into a side street 50 yards further down, do a "reverse round corner" on another minor road off the side street, rejoin the road coming the other way and turn left into the road i would have turned right into. Obviously i bypass 5-10 minutes of queing.

All this is done within the speed limit, and manouvering and indicating in accordance with the highway code.

So what the flying fuck is the coppers problem???

Yes i am gaining an advantage over those queing, just as someone taking a side road short cut would gain an advantage.

But it certainly doesnt meet any definition of "careless" or "inconsiderate" driving.

Sure speeding up the straight lane then cutting someone up at the head of the que, i could understand.


Another trick i do is if coming to a roundabout where there is miles of traffic on the left waiting to turn left, I go up right lane and turn right 270 degrees all the way around the roundabout. Again correctly indicating and manouvering etc. Clearly gaining an advantage but not careless or inconsiderate IMO.

Was the copper being unreasonable and making false claims or can my driving as exampled above be construed as illegal??

gingeRS

I don't believe at any point you weren't:

A) breaking the speed limit
B) contravening the Highway Code

But the copper also sounds like a bored jobs worth bell end

BLU

iTrader: (1)

He was just jealous that he hadn't thought of doing it! Obviously just bored, but as long as you didn't break any traffic laws there fudge all he can do imho

I'm liking the 270deg roundabout manoeuvre

Dal_

iTrader: (2)

Didn't do anything wrong mate.

I need to turn left at a roundabout every night but it's queued back 3-400 yerds so I stay in the right lane on the dual carriageway and do a 270° round the roundabout.
Get some really narky looks from those in the queue but then find them behind me doing the same the next night..lol

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Oh i know it pisses people off as there is some kind of unwritten "social code" that you should que with everyone else. But as we know, what is "right", moral et al isnt the same as what is legal/illegal and thats the point.

I thoroughly expect some people to not like it because theyd be the likely mug ive driven past while they qued.

The copper was likely upset because he was queing and would of seen me go past, turn right, then come back out same junction and turn left into the intended road ahead of him.

I certainly wasnt speeding. Too much traffic to do so.

How was i contravening the highway code??? I wasnt chopping and changing lanes, i wasnt cutting some one up, i didnt do a u turn where the sign was.

Show me where it says in the highway code that turning right off a main road, then doing a turn to go back down said main road to bypass traffic is illegal?? it doesnt as far as i can see.

boost monster

5-6 years ago the traffic guys sat at a roundabout on my way to work and stopped people doing the 270 trick.

BigChuck

was it a traffic cop, or normal?

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

normal copper with a plastic copper in the passenger seat so i wasnt expecting too high standards of traffic knowledge.

Daviet

He was just being a dick in my opinion.
I would have just said i drove down to see if my mate was in but his car wasn't there so i turned around.

BigChuck

theres the problem, you should have called his bluff and told him to charge you.

Cossie.jack

I don't see a problem, just a jobs worth copper

MrC

should have said, well my in car CCTV says different, and explain its serious offence to make up charges, then watch him scurry off back where he came from, i speak from personal experience of such wankers,

St3V3_C

Your first part I don't have a problem with. He was being a knob.

This, however, I do have a problem with. You are affecting the other traffic - they have to give way to you when you're on the roundabout. So, you're potentially screwing up more than you've thought about. It's the same effect on the queue of traffic as you driving down the outside and joining near the end.

There's a couple of queues that I sit in slow moving traffic going straight over a roundabout. They have to give way to the odd few joining from the right, but the problem is made hugely worse by people going down the outside and doing 360. The other side of the roundabout is empty. So, we've still been made to wait by the people doing the 360.

The only difference with your 270 is the main flow of traffic is going left rather than straight on.

Hope that makes sense?

Fast Guy

First one I don't see the problem with, the roundabout thing really f*cks me off. You're causing people who are patiently queuing to wait even longer for cars that are affectively queue jumping. Another one that f*cks me off is those that use the right lane (when it's right turn only) and then shoot straight over.

BTW...... is one of a few things being considered for a fine and points.

tommytwotanks

you can only queue jump if other drivers let you back in, if they don't you just look like a TWAT going nowhere anyway your time is no more important than mine

focusv8

I've done the roundabout manouvre for years, absolutely nothing wrong with it.

The logic of causing people to wait longer is flawed.
If everyone who did the roundabout manouvre queued instead then the queue would be longer for everyone, there would have been people infront of those who "have to wait longer"

It's no different to traffic lights where the there are 2 or 3 lanes through the lights with only 1 or 2 leading up to and on the other side of them. If everyone stuck to lane 1, everyone would wait longer.

I also go around again if it turns out I'm in the wrong lane to turn off a roundabout in an unfamiliar setting, rather than cut across traffic to exit the roundabout.
Using the "Inconsiderate" logic I should cut across as by going around again I'm causing people to wait longer at all exits.

Re the O.P turn right manouvre, I also do that if I'm in the wrong lane or miss the turn right.
Or the same if it's a no right turn and sat nav is telling me to turn.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Speaking of roundabouts with 2 lanes, why do the bone idle drivers drive over both lanes instead of driving around the roundabout. Ive got to the point now when there in the right lane at the roundabout I just pull out now.

St3V3_C

Absolute rubbish.

If car number 20 of a queue skips to the front he's making 19 others wait longer. Car 21 onwards wait the same - potentially longer as he's messed with the flow of traffic.

Are you comfortable with driving down the outside and joining right at the end?

No, that is a one off. We're talking about a number of people doing this every day on the way to work etc.

Mk4 Rick

I see this daily Glenn to many dick heads on the roads these days and even on motorways,cars going from lane 3 crossing lane 2 and 1 to get off a slip road forcing traffic to but there brakes on

Rob Virgo

iTrader: (6)

Lazy muppets glen, don't bring a car to Ireland if that Piss's ya off ...lol

Mk4 Rick

Ive drove my car in ireland and that was an experience

TOOTALL

Aint that the truth.
Making 4 lanes out of 2 is a fine art.
Old tractor gets overtaken by a bigger newer tractor which at the same time gets overtaken by a lorry/van while a car does them all simultaneously.

Colin_P

Had this about 20 years ago. Wood Lane turning right just before the BBC.

Cross Roads but everyone turned right instead of heading down towards Shepards Bush Green, it'd tail back for 1/4 of a mile and the right hand filter would only let 5-6 cars turn right at one time.

The left hand turn at this junction at the time was into a little used depot of some sort that no traffic used.

I used to turn left, do a quick U'y and then wait for the phase to cross. It was one light phase instead of waiting for about 10.

Quite a few other people cottoned on and started doing the same. It didn't hurt anyone and utilised what would have been a wasted phase on the traffic lights.

After a few months, went to do it as normal and the old bill were there stopping people doing it. Bearing in mind this was at least 20 years ago I cannot remember exactly how the conversation went but after arguing I had to bite my lip.

Pathetic, there was no reason for stopping it, it actually eased the congestion but the plod would have none of it.

No harm was ever done to anyone as in your case Warren as the light was green with nobody there using that green phase! They modified the junction to stop it permanently shortly after.

Fucking rush hour, if only the fuckwitted masses made even the slightest attempt to rush, everyone would get home that little bit earlier in the evening and have another 10 minutes in bed in the morning.

Rush hour, bollocks, nobody rushes. Should be re-named fuckwit sheep hour.

If anyone has the fore thought and ingenuity to make better progress without breaking the law then I applaud them.

Fast Guy

Simple way that seems to improve the flow of traffic through lights up this way is to turn them off. Guaranteed if they're off there's no queues.

Cossie.jack

This fucks me right off to!

fuzzy

ive noticed lately that people seem to kerb hug around the outside perimeter of roundabouts now and never indicate what their intention is. I understand why if theres 2 lanes leading up to and around them but I don't get it on single lane roads/roundabouts?
but they also seem to be painting 2 lanes around roundabouts even when theres only 1 lane leading up to and off ?

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

It might slow others down but how is it illegal? And thats the point. Cutting in etc can be illegal, cant see how using the correct lanes and signals is illegal even if its devious. There is nothing in roundabout rules to stop you doing more than 180 degrees.

neilrev

are you seriously saying that if you are approaching a roundabout and want to turn left and there is 20 cars in the left lane and none in the right that you wouldn't go in the right hand lane and go right round the roundabout?

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Im not saying im the best driver in the world but I try to use the road properly and most important I indicate as much as I can even if there are no other cars about.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Is it really bad over there then.

St3V3_C

If there are 20 other cars there why is it such a surprise that I would also wait????

Warren, it's inconsiderate but I doubt you'd ever get convicted.

HaggisTurbo

On the motorway in Glasgow just before you go over the Kingston Bridge there is a queue problem is that the road also has an on slip to this queue from another road to the left. The amount of people that pull out of the queue bomb it down the slip and ram in at the last minute is mad, Other folk, busses etc dont even bother with the queue just fire down the slip passing all the queue of traffic then whacking on the indicator and pushing out!!!

Been years since I drove in Ireland but even then it was an experience, one of the biggest nightmares being having to look at the little darker numbers on the speedo and not the big white ones damn kph lol

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

inconsiderate maybe in some peoples eyes but not inconsiderate driving.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive done the 270 trick quite a lot, but it certainly is inconsiderate, as the net effect is more waiting as you are not just cutting in, but temporarily stopping others from other directions from joining as well.

I can see why the 270 trick would be considered driving inconsiderately at least, or possibly even without due care at a real push, but the turning around in a side road you are doing I dont think they have much hope of really getting you for.

Jimbo.

You've not broken any laws so they can't do shit. As others have said though, the roundabout trick isn't overly considerate but as far as I can tell you're within your rights to do it.

There's a busy roundabout in Basildon with traffic lights which I use on a daily basis. When I exit for Wickford there are 2 lanes you can take which merge into one about 150 yards further up. In rush hour the roundabout is always clogged because everyone queues to take the left lane, having a knock on effect to the traffic flow trying to get on/off the roundabout on the other slip roads.

What people fail to realise is that it's perfectly acceptable to use the right hand lane and merge further up which eases congestion on the roundabout. Everyday myself and others get hooted and flashed at from brain dead mongloids just sitting in the left lane thinking we are doing something wrong. They seem oblivious that they are infact the ones causing the problem!

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

how is it without due care if you are following the correct MSM etc chip? Ive not forced anyone to slam on the brakes, Ive changed lanes correctly, indicated etc. Once on the rounabout it is a seperate "section" of the road with its own rules which again i am following - ie use correct lane to go round and indicate and manouver to leave roundabout as required by highway code.

To get due care for that would IMO be silly.

it would be in same league as saying that going past a "no u turn" sign then turning in a side street is illegal because it is against the "spirit" of what the no u turn sign was there for.

St3V3_C

You've answered your own question there - if you are being inconsiderate whilst driving a car, it's inconsiderate driving...

No, because to U turn you potentially need both sides of the road to be stopped. In order to make it round you need to be further left so blocking that while you wait for a gap in oncoming traffic. Just turning right you can be further over leaving the road clear while you wait.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

not in law as far as i can see.

To succeed with a conviction of inconsiderate driving, some one has to be clearly inconvenienced by my driving and just queing a little longer doesnt come under the remit of inconvenienced. Forcing them to brake, swerve, change lane etc all does count.

In the charging guidelines the only relevant bit that could be construed is:
However in both those lanes i have not misused a lane. I used the right hand lane corectly to enter the inner lane at the roundabout, and my actions once on the roundabout were in accordance with the highway code so no misuse of lanes there....

had i used the right lane to pass the que then cut in when a gap presents itself as people pull away, then yes you would be right IMO.

Isaac.Hunt

I hate to piss on a few people's bonfires but it is not only inconsiderate it is also illegal and therefore obviously constitutes an offence.


Acquaint yourself with with section 3ZA(4) Road Traffic Act 1988.

Additionally CPS charging quidelines are clear:

"Driving without reasonable consideration:

This offence is appropriate when the driving amounts to a clear act of incompetence, selfishness, impatience or aggressiveness in addition to some other inconvenience to road users. The following examples are typical of actions likely to be regarded as inconsiderate driving:

misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers"


Specifically relevant parts highlighted in bold.

To some extent to the examples that the CPS use to define inconsiderate driving amount to excessive political correctness IMO are are a slightly silly.

That said, if you get caught and it goes to court, I would bet money you'll come off worse.

Rax

iTrader: (1)

I dont see as you have done anything wrong Warren.

As for the roundabout senario everyday for years coming home from work I had to cross Smallthorne roundabouts.Never had a problem .The ammount of people who fail with them is astounding but the 270 works a treat .

I dont see it as a problem as long as you dont go screaming down the outside lane and hang it sideways around the roundabout I could see the problem then.