Fezzrs

How do i go about getting my refund off msd for this wasted spark driverv

Matt Baxter

iTrader: (37)

Contact them maybe?

s1cab

iTrader: (1)

Have you tried to contact them ?

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

Its a tricky one, but we will see what we can do,
The Driver has been fitted and removed again,by cutting the wires, so all the wires are now too short, we cannot re sell the item and it is not faulty.

Why do you want a refund? the wasted spark driver is not the cause of your problem as the problem exsits without the driver in the ECU. The issue appears to be chip/board or chip spec related.

Fezzrs

I'm not convinced u sold me a loom which was wired incorrectly then the spark plugs were firing all over the shop and that is die to the wasted spark firing in the wrong order is not good from a product u said was good

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

Im unaware of any loom problems, We do not make them ourselves but source them from a suppier, if the loom was incorreclty wired please send it in to me so i can take this matter up with the supplier.

When you sent the ECU back in for testing you advised me the wasted spark kit had been removed (Which is why the driver was removed from the ECU) And the problem was still present. So how is the problem wasted spark loom related?

Fezzrs

The problem is with the whole kit it does not work and a loom wired up wrongly that could cause all sorts of issues i know u not going to refund me you've sokd me a product that does not work

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

But you have told me the problem is still present with the kit removed? and i had the problem with the car initially firing up, then cutting out here on your ecu and chip which clarified the Issue was not ecu or wasted spark related.

MikeR

I can't see you winning this one with rational reason James

Mike

Fezzrs

Well I'm not convinced i heard on here about this wasted spark firing at the same time which wud detonate sn engine

Bloomers

iTrader: (1)

i had a look that wad wired wrong ( not from msd, but possibly the same supplier) turned out it was the opposite order, where it came out the ignition amp

popped out the pins and switched them all round and it was all fine

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

Fezzrs, are you aware how wasted spark works in the first place?

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

All i would like is a valid reason to refund someone a wasted spark driver that has been proven to not be faulty.
I was caught out the first time the ECU came here, but im not stupid enough to be caught out twice. The refund will be nothing to do with me im afraid as its not my place to deal with that side of things, and i have passed an email address on to the customer where they can contact the relivant person to ask for a refund.


The ECU was sent back to me having had the wasted spark driver removed, the problem, i was told, was the car starts inittially and then cuts out, this problem occurs even with the wasted spark driver removed as the customer has removed the driver and wasted spark and the issue is still present.

Here is a video of the ECU in a car of a very similar spec as it arrived to me with the owners chip fitted.





It was clear the issue was present while i was testing the ecu.

I removed the owners chip and fitted one of my rough base maps into the ECU.
Here is a video of it running the car.





Now from what i can see, the ECU is working fine, but the issue appears to be related to your chip or board as the ECU runs the car as expected on our chip.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

But if you buy something which us supposed to work out if the box why would you expect to fiddle with it to make it work?

I understand the logic from both sides if the argument so I hope it comes to an amicable end

Just hope the thread remains up long enough

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

I was never made aware of any loom problems,
i was told the wasted spark driver was the cause of the issue and it had damaged the ECU, which is why it wouldnt run now even with the driver removed.

Our simple test rules that out really as there is nothing wrong with the ECU at all. as you can see.
The ECU was tested (Not overly well) with the wasted spark driver fitted before it was sent out the first time and did start and run a car here for a short time, but again this was carried out on one of my chips to match the engine spec of the car i was using.

This is why i did not find the running issue the first time i had the ECU. As i wasnt testing the chip. Only the ECU.

Now I'm certainly not going to argue about this matter.
I have done all I can,and all I will do is state the facts that I know.
I have tested the ecu after a wasted spark driver was fitted and was pretty confident all was ok but to be sure I asked for it back for a second test when it would not run the customers car.
I have again tested the ecu with the driver removed and found the issue is not wasted spark related or ecu related, and advised the customer to get in touch with his tuner to talk about chip spec and try to resolve the issue that I had discovered.
I cannot really do much more.

Fezzrs

Here's a perfect reason the loom was not pinned correctly stvtge loom when i buy a product i expect it to work not mess with loom pins your selling sonethibg that clearly does not work thers a lad on here who said the same thing

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

So simply answer my question as to why the ecu had the same problem with the wasted spark removed? You were not using the wasted spark loom then?

If you found a loom issue the first thing you should have done is tell us, and we would have sent you a new one while resolving the issue with our supplier.
If the loom has now been tampered with it becomes very hard for me to send it to our supplier with all guns blazing about a mis wired loom, as I cannot prove it.

paulsheerin

to be fair mate, James has offered to have the loom sent to him so that it can be tested and prove where the problem lies, and if the problem is loom related he will take the issue up with his supplier.

Fezzrs

Hang on gadget phoned u and u tokd him to swP tge pins over when tge car wouldn't fire and when we did it fired but cut out so hang on u tons us to do that i know im not going to gst a refund i am not putting a board in my car for simple reason is if there plugs fire all four that will detonate tge engibe u tokd us when they pack up they fire all 4 same time i know im not going to get a refund u charged us for even fitting sending the ecu back and fourth u tested on car that was not even runnibg right we send it back to u and now u say it cud be the board or chip maye

andrewmctiernan

I can't understand your post

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

I did not charge you for return postage for the ecu, or for my time testing the ecu to find the issue was no fault of our at all.

There is no real, could be the chip or board. Watch the videos I posted. It IS related to chip or board as I fixed the issue by fitting one of our chips into the ecu.

I advised gadget to swap coil pins or leads, to eliminate loom problems incase the coil phase was incorrect when he was testing the ecu and pinning it all out, there was no mention that you wanted a refund and I was trying to cover all basis and be as helpfull as I could to get the problem solved. I had seen a car with a similar running issue and the ht leads were incorrectly connected (backwards) on the coil.

this was before the ecu was sent back the second time, so if you found a faulty loom why was I testing the ecu again for the same problem?

I was pretty sure my initial test I carried out after I fitted the driver was good enough as the car started on 4 cylinders perfectly but I couldn't run it for any length if time,
it was actually my own car and it was in bits. But I was more than happy to double check it for you.

You are still avoiding the question, why did the car still have the same running issue with the wasted spark kit removed?

slammedorion

Why put this over the PF board... Surely it would be easier via a phone call or email???

St3V3_C

OP thinks he's got more chance of being paid if made public.

Old ford

And read your thread before posting as it reads like its in code!

slammedorion

With 20 ish posts I doubt it...
Got more chance of being moved on...

Gadget

James, this is the car that I had spoke to you on the phone about when it was popping and banging like it was firing 180 out, you advised swapping leads 1&2, 3&4 with each other which I did, then it would fire.
You said to swap the pins in the coil pack plug to rectify it.

So the Ł83 loom isn't a direct plug and play, simple fix maybe but when the ecu first cam back as "ok" and I had fitted this loom, I assumed that these parts must be ok so spent a long time looking and trying everything else first.

You were very helpful on the phone and I'm grateful for your time / help.

I think the owner is just annoyed that the ecu first came back as ok and fired a car ( I know you said that you had told sales that the only car you had available to try it on had issues, but I was not made aware of that! ) and that the loom was also incorrectly pinned from manufacture!

I'm trying not to get involved but I wanted to add that.
Gary.

Fullflush

Deffo more chance of getting paid off cowboys when going public

costina

iTrader: (1)

Wasted spark kit for a cosworth NOT a fiesta running cosworth management which prob has issues with crank and phase sensors causing your problems.

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

But as it turns out my first test was right and the ecu was ok.
The issue was chip or board related which I was not testing. Other peoples software are nothing to do with me. And I tested the ecu with a chip to run my car on 72lb injectors.

As I said I was pretty sure the test was good as it did start and run my car for a very short time, but it did start and run which is quite convincing that the driver is working
, but I was more than happy to double check it to be sure as I had a car in of a similar spec to the one you had issues with at the time of the second test

If you found a wiring fault then why were we not told?

And if you found the problem was our loom when testing, why was I sent the ecu afterwards to test because the problem was still present?

And if the running issue was loom, why did the car have the very same running issue with the wasted spark kit removed? As my videos show.

St3V3_C

As I understand, there may still have been no problem with the loom - but there definitely is a problem with the chip.

Is this right?

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

I have not seen or been told about a faulty loom before this thread, so as far as loom faults go you all know the same as I do.

All I can conclusively say is that the running issue that the customer was suffering was,
A, nothing to do with the wasted spark driver that I had fitted and tested,
B, nothing to do with the ECU which I tested in its standard ignition form.

And I had found the same issue the customer was complaining about and resolved the issue with a new EPROM programmed with one of our base calibrations.

I can't see really how we can be expected to refund a kit which has now has a driver that has had the wires cut, a loom that has been tampered with so I cannot go back to my supplier to resolve the problem and ensure it does not happen again if this is the case. How can I prove to my supplier he has made a mistake?

If you have fixed the loom problem, then the wasted spark kit will work and run the car as the customer wanted when it was purchased, so what is the refund for? Is it because the ecu is fitted with a faulty or mis speced EPROM?

Because I don't think we can really refund you for a wasted spark kit because the programme on someone else's chip doesn't work?

Mk4 Rick

This is non of my business or anything but if the op had a problem I would have posted the loom and ecu and all the little bits to make it run to James so James had everthing there in front of him to sort the problem out or make his own conclusion instead of trying to rubbish a mans hard earned reputation on a forum.If you have a problem you could of emailed him or phoned him or even better took a drive up and seen him.

Osborne0121

I'm with Rick on this 1 I'd of just sent it all back to msd for testing or driven up there and ask for help/fault testing , from what I've seen and heard the lads at msd do a great job no point arguing over this in public should be kept between closed doors like a phone call maybe

YOREVOL

putting a problem like this on a public forum isnt the way to get a refund.
it should be dealt with between the 2 involved parties privately. and if compromise isnt found then i suppose legal action.
my 2p worth is MSD are a well respected company and i hope they wouldnt fudge a refund if they were to blame.

mattman1234

the moment you start cutting wires,would in my opinion,void any type of refund.

boost monster

This is a side of internet forums that I don't like it can damage or enhance (i suppose) reputations with only someones opinion.

Caddyshack

It looks like MSD were doing what they could to fix the problem and would have continued to support the customer, bad mouthing MSD and not answering the same question despite the amount of times it was asked makes MSD look in the right.

The loom could have been returned for inspection or replacement, clearly there was good will as MSD tested the ecu etc foc.

I am sure the OP has his own side to this but I am sure the outcome could have been better working together.

porterste

Not taking sides in this argument cos its nowt to do with me.

I will say however from my own experience I spent a lot of money with MSD a few years back and was not happy with them.

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

I agree,
All we can do is try our best,
I'm sure our team will look into this issue and see what we can do to help out though.

boy-racer-1

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/