1.9 xr2 on 40's

I sold a van

Wtf! Can I do apart from post the v5
Which I did
It's 55 or 35 if I pay quick and I need to appeal in writing
Any ideas? I can't prove postage but I have a scan copy of the doc
Tempted to take it to court cos this is fucking stupid
Dvla is useless at the best of times where these things come in

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the llp department won't accept anything unless it's the original letter you got from the dvla telling you that they have received the notification and absolve you of any blame

anything else you will get fucked unless you let them take you to court

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

if it goes to court you will win

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

go to court.

Look up the law on serving legal paperwork.. The only requirement in law is to post it. No where does it say you need proof of posting.

Also more importantly with DVLA cunts, their claim that YOU must contact them if you dont hear back or risk a fine, has NO basis in law. You fulfilled your legal obligation to notify by posting the paperwork.

To win, dvla will have to prove you didnt post the paperwork, which they cannot do.

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

or DVLA will have to take it up with "The Royal Mail" as it is in there hands once you posted it.

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

Tell them you are not paying as you fully carried out your side by filling in the V5 and posting it back and and you were under no obligation to follow up with DVLA and if they would like to take it further then they will have to take you to court. I bet you here nothing more if you do have to go to court as Warren said read up its not hard and make sure you take any paperwork you do have with you like receipt of selling car!

1.9 xr2 on 40's

Thanks for the info guys
Is there anywhere I can take the info you give from say a gov
Website? I get alot of solicitors or will suppliers when I search so I think I'm missing something
I'd rather nip this I the bud now
The daft thing is I have 2 cars on my drive I never got a v5 for at all lol
Thanks

1.9 xr2 on 40's

This one looks good huh
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/po...ex.htm?t=97518

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

Exactly bud fuck them they make there own laws up! That is why any motoring offences/convictions are not on your criminal record as they are not criminal offences

1.9 xr2 on 40's

I'm not a fan of courts
Last time it took a while to read my history and they said they wanted to send me down but I was allowed to go home lol
Ill do a nice write up with some reference to previous cases and then we will see what goes down
I expect they will say duck off and ill get a date but as long as I know what to say ill be ok

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Your criminal and driving history is of no relevance to this case and cannot be bought up.

You just need to be prepared to fight them with fact.

Too many people bend over and cough up the money. Plus if you let it get to court and dont challenge it, then the lawyer for DVLA will basically "neglect to tell them" about the laws surrounding delivering of legal papers. The lawyer will only state that you recieved a fine and didnt pay it.

The magistrate wont know off his head what the surrounding laws are so sees a simple case of unpaid fine and unless you challenge them on the legality of the fine, then the magistrate will rule in DVLA's favour every time.

chris cdti

You could do a request for information from the dvla and you may find that they will admit they loose letters etc

Steve the Plumber

iTrader: (11)

Have you got proof of postage?

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

I've had one last week aswell for the same reason from the sale of my bmw

I did send them the v5

All you need to be sure of is that you posted it, and to the right address.

If you can answer yes to that, then you have legally fulfilled every obligation you have with the dvla and have done nothing wrong. Just remember that.

I've written them a tasty letter and I'm more than happy to see them in court.

You have no obligation to use recorded post, you have no obligation to chase them to make sure they received the document. So how they think they can fine anyone is beyond me, its just a moneymaking scam. Stand up to them.

If it actually does go to court they will loose, they cannot prove you didn't send it to them and their own regulations state you do not need to use recorded post.
At that point the judge will laugh and you can go home, which is why the dvla will back out in most cases.

1.9 xr2 on 40's

Can I get them to pay me something for wasting my time?
Ill be doing my return letter tomorrow
Thanks guys

Oranoco

Take the DVLA to court for being shit? Love your thinking

1.9 xr2 on 40's

???? They wants take me to court for them being shit

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

I'd say it may not be quite as clear cut.
It does say when you send the v5c off for change of ownership that if you have not heard from the dvla within 6 weeks you MUST contact them.
And don't forget that they now have their own solicitors in court everyday of the week now,in Swansea mag they have their own courtroom on certain days.
These cunts are trying to nail us lads,by all means give it a try but the days of a judge laughing it out of court are disappearing,believe me.

Nick 172 Sport

Got one the other week same thing paid 35quid robbin cants think there self funded now like vosa and ha vosas been having a field day with trucks there skint

dojj

iTrader: (3)

4 weeks mate i was told in one of my letters

can't remember what happened if i'm honest, but i spoke to someone on the phone who basically said it would be easier to pay the fine than to fight it, so i fought it and they didn't even send me a letter saying they were going to take me to court

i wrote something along hte lines of "i sent you the letter, it's not my fault you didn't get it, take it up with royal mail, if you want me to pay for recorded delivery then state that on the paperwork" etc

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

The legislation IS clear cut.

Fines are only lawfully administered with an appropriate piece of legislation which details what the fine is for, how you get it etc etc etc.

The written legislation gives DVLA the authority to fine for failure to notify. However notifying has a very strict definition in law.

DVLA are basically assuming that if you dont respond within 6 weeks then you must of not notified them hence default issue of a fine.

However it is the assumption that is flawed in law and makes the fines illegally issued unless you admit, or they can prove you did not take the proper actions as required by law - and its actions required by law NOT actions written on a DVLA form.

The vast majority of cases in swansea are unattented cases. If you challenge, it is transfered to your local court and thats when DVLA rarely turn up and challenge.

Oranoco

Sorry mate was reading in a hurry at work. I thought you were saying you would like to go after them for your wasted time. Which I though was a great idea.

Nick 172 Sport

dont think so read my prevoius post there self funded know so every penny is needed

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the dvla and the late licensing penalty office are 2 separate entities

the llp are the ones who will send you the letters and take you to court, NOT the dvla

Brendan

iTrader: (1)

who are you kidding?

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

Not gonna argue the point as I've taken them to court and successfully won so it may sound a tad hypocritical but they are changing their ways believe me.
I tried claiming the postal thing a while back in another matter and was told "pay the fine and then take Royal Mail to court,we WILL send the bayliffs round".
Which they did,luckily the combination of big gates and a supposedly "killer" dog made them shit themselves long enough to fuck off as I wasn't home at the time.
Not disagreeing with the law as I don't 100% know it but the amount of people at court that day who were being fined for exceptionally minor things was scary,not many happy faces coming out of court that day.
Mine was but the game is changing.

Oranoco

Bayliffs or debt collectors? Bayliffs are court appointed and require the court to have ordered in the DVLA's favour which requires you to have been able to offer defence. Without this surely they are debt collectors that have no right under law to demand money, they can only ask if you wouldn't mind giving them money.

Unless I've missed something glaringly obvious.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

They may well be changing thier tactics and using bully boy debt collectors as a first port of call to convince you to cough up, but it doesnt change the law on the issue which is the whole point.

There have been no changes to the law and no obvious ones planned to make the onus on us to chase up DVLA.

The problem is people dont know to challenge them. Most just cough up, and those who try to ignore it, many will cough up with debt collector bullying, and a lot will cough up just to save the hassle.

Not many have the nouse or desire to take on the DVLA in court.


What worries me is if they try and use the unchallenged cases they win as a means of "proving a precedent" and use it to have the fines legislation changed.
Exactly, debt collectors have no power unless you leave the house unlocked or invite them in.

However most debt collectors lie and cheat the rules as otherwise no one would pay them.

Also many debt collectors are ALSO baliffs of the court. However they are only entitled to use the title "baliff" and use thier baliff credentials when on court ordered business.

You find me a debt collector who plays it straight in accordance with the rules though.

muz

I was in correspondence with DVLA about this for months and they will NOT back down. I used the Interpretation Act, said they had no authority to impose the fine, that I wasn't statutorily obliged to chase them up etc but they don't care. They are more than willing to turn up at court and see what happens. As the case is also seen by Lay magistrates, who have little or no understanding of Staute Legislation, they will usually side with whoever puts forward the best argument, not necessarily who is right in the eyes of the law. I was supposed to be in court two weeks ago, but I was called away with work, the reason I had to change the court date twice previously, and as they don't operate out of Colchester court I would have had to travel to Chemsford which would have cost me money in fuel, so ended up just paying £35 for them to go away.

To summarise, you are right in the eyes of the law. You complied with everything you had to your end, and the law does support this, however, do be careful if it goes to court and have a water tight defence.

1.9 xr2 on 40's

My defence was just to spout what's been said teally

1.9 xr2 on 40's

Really

1.9 xr2 on 40's

Did you pay the 35 within the time specified?

muz

I paid it about a week before the court date by phoning the number. They tried it on and said it had gone up to £55 but I basically told them for £55 I would take it to court and we settled on £35.

furry

i got one fined by them a few years ago for no tax on my old ST2, the thing was i'd sold the car back to the dealer and cashed the tax in. They claimed to never have been told i'd sold it. i sent them a scan of the yellow slip i'd sent them and asked them if it was my responsibilty to make sure the post office had delivered my letter to them? and that as far as i was concerned i had done what is asked of me when selling a vehicle.

they wrote back to me saying the case had been dropped.

foreigneRS

i had a similar thing a year or so ago when i sold a bike to a guy in sweden and exported it. i politely told them that i had fulfilled my obligations by posting the form as that is all that it states on it that you have to do. i had a couple of letters but stuck to my guns and they didn't take it any further.

James @ M Developments.

iTrader: (2)

I had a letter back from them, no further action lol.

muz

Maybe the bloke I was dealing with was like a dog with a bone then. I wrote several lengthy letters to them and had a solid defence but they just wouldn't let it drop. They seemed to want to take their chances in the court room. To be for, ad I actually turned up at court I have no doubt that I would have won, however, with work being so busy time off was not really an option and the 50 mile round trip to the court just wasn't worth the agro for £35.