ajamesc

Like I said every one will have there own opinion and rate what they have experienced!
I went in a very well known 500bhp ish car with a t4 then again in the same car when it was 500bhp ish on one of the first gt series turbo set ups and the difference was night and day the two did not compare at all

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

I don't doubt your experience and say fair play

JonnyBravo

All fine and well moving with the times but it is expensive and for most people not worth the extra money.

A t4 spec motor is still bloody fast, even by today's standards.

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

Yes the T4's are old, and take longer to come in, but they pull hard, don't tail off, and I have no lag at all.

Cosnada

iTrader: (2)

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

The problem half the time is people who have been in a t4 car are old school 7.2 with a 16/14 timed at 120deg so felt like shit, I can honestly say I prefer my t4 engine to any other engine we've ever done, it's so driveable, silly torque and massive power band.

Mark yes I plan to run it but will no doubt struggle with grip, soon find out

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Jim,

What Turbo did you dad use in his Escos??

Does Mike have a T4 setup in his Escort too?


Bottom line is, it all comes down to personal choice of what the person wants, it's a subject like many you'll get many different views, opinions etc.

Go with what YOU want to I'd say to folks, your money

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

tbh after driving loads of modern engines high comp engine cars a t34.48 on a 8,1 yb feels laggy i like low to mid punch than mid to top power

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Lol,

Jay, I'm with you there coming from the 80 series on the Mak, that was instant, felt very strange getting back in to the Cossie spool wise

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

think thats what part of my dislike going back to a cossie was the power delivery ! yes you get the yb kick ect but the before and after is lacking .I cant be arsed to convert the car to 2wd or spend a fortune on a gearbox or i would try a gt28

cossyking

Both my cars run borg warners and them awesome just cant beleive the difference

Billy_RS

iTrader: (5)

Can you make a genuine 500bhp with a GT30?

WongRS

iTrader: (11)

Yes, mines on a gt30.

Billy_RS

iTrader: (5)

Have you had yours on a rolling road? What kind of torque does it make?

WongRS

iTrader: (11)

Graph that came with the engine, believe it's off the engine dyno when Mark mapped it?

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

i dont see it as just a case of (what someone fancys) lol
its about what works, what gives the biggest band of power at both ends.
i cant demonstate on a yb as i have no data.
the difference can be night and day literally even from a dyno plot, then theres throttle response which no dyno can measure but it can certainly be felt from the driving seat.
heres is a plot i have to demonstrate 2 turbos that are capable of flowing approx 800 hp max but look at the difference in the curves !
night and day difference one is an old t88, the other a gt40 series on the exact same engine, everything is identical except turbo.





that is a comparable example of an old t series turbo against a gt series, the plot speaks for itself imo. then theres the throttle response of twin scroll aswell which is noticably better than open scroll, now stick an efr turbo on there the results would be shocking i think, i shall have some soon

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

Yes, Doug Stirling's Escos makes 520hp/520lb/ft on a GT3071.82 internally gated turbo

Billy_RS

iTrader: (5)

Any links to the car?

Sonic Boom

iTrader: (11)

Mine runs 550 bhp and 531 ft/lb torque on a GTX3076

Rich

Mark Shead

Search on the Escort forum.

Mark

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

That was a great result on that setup by Mark, can't argue with those figures at all

Iirc the cams weren't great in Doug's car though and were changed?

JamesH

iTrader: (21)

https://passionford.com/forum/genera...es-514bhp.html

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

I'm more than happy with my T34.48

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

You certainly can. My own engine with a 3071 and standard head ports made 480. If the head had been ported then i would have gone over 500bhp.

RSTurboTrev

yes sorry its a 3071.82 open scroll..my bad

RSTurboTrev

Yes my friend has an engine thats almost identical to your old spec and is lovely that was just over 500 hp and 480 lb ft..

Its a 2wd escort and is mad on the road

Caddyshack

I am a bit confused by this....how can you say they take longer to come in and then say that it has no lag....or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

Because lag and boost threshold are two different things.

Caddyshack

Could you explain a bit more on how to differentiate the two as I would like toad understand this more....no picking an argument or trying to be clever...I really do want to know.

To me lag is put your foot down and then wait for the power....ie waiting for spool up or taking time for the turbo to come in....haven't a clue on boost threshold but seems to be how the engine stays on boost?

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Caddy, boost threshold is where the turbo can create the maximum boost you want, eg a t4 is generally 4000rpm.
Lag is when your at 7000rpm and change gear, how fast the turbo can get back to maximum boost pressure.

Jim

markk

iTrader: (2)

I class that as a superb graph, excellant torque over a massive spread or revs, worth so much more than chasing big hp when it comes to enjoying the drive.

I wish I could find some of the posts from 10 years or so ago when I was running compression ratios in the late 8's and late 9's:1 when everyone was telling me you cant do it.
MSD was mapping my high comp engines so long ago, yet now aday s you struggle to find anyone wanting to have an engine at less than 8:1.

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

i agree it is a good graph but its only half a graph so only really shows half the picture imo.
it looks good 3500 - 5500 rpm, but how good is 5500 - 7500 rpm ?

Mr C

iTrader: (2)

That power looks predictable, keep it between 3600 and the limiter/where it tails off and that could be a handy motor from point to point. I like that

crazycage

was that on the internal gate or external ?

Mark Shead

Internal gate.

Mark

crazycage

cool , thanks .

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

thats alittle unfair jimbo, its still holding onto over 500 hp above 7000 rpm, i highly doubt you will pull full boost at anywhere near 3800 rpm on a dd rolling road.
iirc rod ran his car after engine dyno on dd rollers and the boost threshold was alot higher and made alot less power, imo for that result on a dd dyno shows its a hell of a set up imo.

ive had a proper t4 spec a1 rallyesport engine, rs 500 inlet 8 greens etc in a 3 door and it was awesome in 2001 but not by todays standards is it imo.
if the bits come on a car then fine but to build a car and having to buy all the parts i dont see the logic on spending money on a t4 when much better is now available.

Billy_RS

iTrader: (5)

I suppose it all just boils down to personal preference. T4, GT series or BW EFR can all make the power, just in different ways.

Mark Shead

Correct but with the BW Twin scroll turbo's you can have your cake and eat it if you can afford it.

Mark

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Not really its true, my car on the road pulls just below 4k and revs to 8k with a tiny power drop from 7.5-8k

I'm personally not interested in rolling roads, I don't beleive power figures (my escort at "265lbft" was 25 high or our customers 700bhp that gave 775) so have no real need to look at what it does on a graph.

That may sound a bit harsh and I'm sure some may not like it but this thread is all about opinions, and that's my opinion, also my opinion is my t4 powered car is incredible it has a 4000 rpm massively useable rev range where a responsive engine normally has 3500rpm (gains bottom end but dies top) and I wouldn't change it for love nor money and I have driven and mapped multiple different spec 500 engines including other tuners