saph4be

I do worry about these New remapping company's popping up all over and just how good there product really is!

Just seen a guy asking for recommendations so I said evolution chips and a remapped bloke who was trying to sell him a remap jumped all over it pulling them down!

I just looked at his home page and that alone would have me walking away!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

You can become a mapper for £15 if you go on ebay!

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

A guy at work had a horror trying to get his fiat camper remapped. One fried ecu and 3 weeks later it went back to fiat for a new ecu, the mapping company paid! Guy came up from cornwall about 6 times, so they lost out on that one big time.

I did try telling him to go somewhere like msd, but mr the guy wouldnt listen. I still take the piss and say you get what you pay for, but he chose £199 over £350....

Another guy at work bought some diesel tuning box for his 08 reg audi a4 tdi... Its not gone bang yet to my surprise!

MrC

Yeah those Chinese obd kits with stock maps that have been written by 9000 monkeys on typewriters.

£15 all day long lol

BRAM

iTrader: (1)

The same happened to a lad i work with a while ago now, but he had his range rover sport v8 diesel re-mapped by a lad that came to our work plugged in his laptop messed about with it for about half an hour then said take it for a drive see what you think.

It made a good differance it was quick for about 2-3weeks until 1 of the turbos went and bent a rod!!!

Not do that again lol

Will Pedley Racing

Whats even more frightening is how many of these 'mappers' don't perform diagnostic checks before and after the mapping process. Or perform road tests before and after with monitoring equipment. Or have the correct liability insurance. Or have premises, land line telephone numbers, after sales support etc.

But hey, if they're cheap, that's all that matters right?

costina

iTrader: (1)

cheap ting no good, good ting no cheap

Ade500

iTrader: (1)

Words of wisdom

doga-ot

iTrader: (1)

You get what you pay for, you wanna be cheap then expect too shell out for an engine rebuild and be more out of pocket than just shelling out a little extra for a good mapper in the first place.....

WES

AstoN_B

iTrader: (1)

That's not necessarily down to just the map. Tdv8's are a problematic power plant. Land Rover choose to ignore it simply telling people "you need a new engine" I know of at least 3 which had turbo failure within 1 year from new. And I've seen a good few more at a local land rover specialist, with the body lifted off the chassis so they can get to the turbos to replace them. Not a 2 minute job hence land rover playing dumb!!

Also I think I *might* know the guy who sells them CDs on eBay. The name is familiar, I shall dig tomorrow...

Beach

Made me smile.....

Its like all the apprentices at work ''have ya van re mapped mate'' er no its 100 bhp has done 150k that way and shes fine just plodding along

Its like the lad at work who has fucked up his mk4 golf pd150 through having it chipped and it never being right again so he's decided to buy a lovely mk5 one and now do the same to that, needless to say its smokes like a train yet again and im sure will die like his other did!!

Id buy a diesel to drive, anything with 130-150 bhp is more then enough imo

If you want to buy a car to tune buy a car thats worth tuning lol and that kind of takes me to my point if your first question is whats the cheapest way to get expensive power then it just doesnt exist imo!! Just buy a car and drive the bugger!!!

AstoN_B

iTrader: (1)

A map done properly is fine. Most components are over rated anyway, and power can be restricted by emissions bollocks too. Sometimes you aren't gaining much power but the way it's delivered can be improved vastly.

Anyone who's driven an E90 330d re mapped will agree its certainly a good argument in favour of mapping!!

If something's worth doing, it's worth doing properly.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Its a real problem in the industry nowadays sadly. You can set yourself up for remapping for a few hundred quid and the poor consumer doesn't know that having the ability to use a laptop does not mean you have the ability to tune an engine.

Nothing much has changed as far as engine tuning has concerned, we just don't use screwdrivers, spanners and timing lights anymore... but the basic fundamental knowledge required to do the job is the same as it always was - its just encompasses a lot more technicalities than it used to and requires understanding of rail pressures / particulate filtration and a whole host of other boring stuff.

The mere fact a TD fires out plumes of smoke is an instant indication that its either faulty - or if caused by the remap, heading for some VERY expensive bills in the near future. Why people insist on happily paying these idiots that leave your car in this state I will never, ever know.

rhinopower

I thought the saying with a diesel was 'no smoke no poke'? My old 1999 passat tdi was remapped by a well known tuner who fitted 2 new chips inside the ecu used to chuck out a nice cloud sometimes and the car is still going strong to this day on the second owner since me, i still see it smoking around. Never had a problem with it.

My currant audi i did myself, i downloaded the original ecu file using an interface, sent it to a tuner in poland who sent me back a new file to upload, again, never had a problem. I would however be interested to hear an 'experts' opinion on the tuned file that im running.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

In the 80s and early 90s that was very true as we were injecting a very thick fuel into the chamber at very low pressures and pumping the results directly out to atmosphere.
That changed a long time ago mate.

With the advert of ultra high rail pressures, far more accurate injector nozzles that are so small they need to be individually coded to the ecu to correct for differences of a 10'000th of a millimetre and then pumping the results through a FILTER in the exhaust to make sure nothing more than air comes out.

To address your question in a different manner though, would you say these 3 cars have "no poke"?

• Audi Q7 6.0 TDI - 500bhp - 1000nm of torque
• BMW 335D - 286bhp - 580NM of torque
• Audi A6 V6 TDi - 308bhp - 650nm of torque?

Just three examples we remap a lot of and they are all very fast cars standard and even better remapped and none of them smoke, ever.
The days of smoke are gone - providing the calibrator understands they have gone and doesn't just keep adding fuel to the table until he has surpassed the managements system to supress smoke and wound the turbine temperatures up to the point of imminent turbine and associates equipment failure. Smoke = BAD on a system purposely designed to limit it.

The ECU itself even has "Smoke limiter tables" and these cal tables are used to allow the ECU to calibrate the fuel mass injected whilst accounting for the engines changing VE in each gear.
Guess what the usual idiots do... Yep... FLATLINE THEM so it just pumps in as much as it can at all times no matter what gear your in... The same goes for individual gear torque limiters. Ever wonder why modern cars don't wheel-spin and torque-steer everywhere like old fashioned cars (RSturbo for example). Yep - the modern management is taking care of it and applying different levels of torque output per gear.

Guess what they do with those? Yep... same job, flatline them.
Customer says "I felt a difference right away, even in first gear" No shit, yes it was probably slower, wheel spinning everywhere but feeling awesome, while a standard car overtook him with his traction

We see it every - single - day. Clowns - they give us ALL a bad name.

AstoN_B

iTrader: (1)

I think it depends on the engine, I know vag cars tend to smoke a bit more when mapped.

A friends car used to smoke screen, diesel Ibiza with hybrid turbo and nice internals. At his current spec the only way to smoke less was to use water/meth injection or up the boost, which was t an option due to being near the blowers limit. Or de tune the map but he preferred it a bit sooty and hilariously quick.

AstoN_B

iTrader: (1)

Obviously this differs the newer cars get, on a standard car with just a remap yeah no smoking is what you need.

I'm a firm believer in removing cats, particulate filters, egr valves etc. They just make things more difficult.

Its funny how differently we view diesels in Europe compared to the states. I've never seen smoke stacks like it first time I went drag racing over there. And this was a Thursday throw down where you stop by on way home from work for a few runs, not purpose built drag trucks.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

You should never miss the very simple fact that its illegal.
We do lots of smokey conversions for hill climbing and other motorsports where we add so much fuel and often other additives that the black fumes can bloody kill you, but workshops should NOT be turning out road cars with illegal emissions for simple stage 1,2,3 remaps.

packman

So people spend 5-10k on a engine and then want a cheap mapper. Pay the money get it on a bench dyno and get it checked afterwards......

Do it right do it once .....

Id use SCS ....

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Wrong topic maybe?

rhinopower

Makes a lot of sense Stu. Diesel tuning has always interested me. I understand that more modern cars are going to be a lot more 'smoke free', I guess that the age of the cars I've experienced has affected my judgement.

The EEPROM file for my Audi didn't look like the numbers had just been increased across the board, it's certainly better on fuel than before but I don't know if more than 40mpg is achievable on a 12 year old automatic diesel?

AstoN_B

iTrader: (1)

Illegal or immoral?

I think if we're talking go karts or something used indoors then yeah, but there's plenty of cars de-catted. And plenty pre cat cars too.

Illegal and bad for environment are very different. Is it possible to be prosecuted for removing a particulate filter? Genuine question as I know diesels can still pass emissions tests without cat or filter.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I wasn't directing my comment at any particular calibrator mate, there are some great ones out there every bit as good as we are and hopefully you have used one for yours, but sadly, there are a hell of a lot more idiots who think the "Curves" in the tables should be converted to nice flat lines.

They must think the OE's are absolute morons... fancy making a line curved when its easier to make it flat?

And don't get me started on DPF removal... that's the biggest fuck up ever right now as the A2L files have started to detail the way to turn off the regen warning light so the roads are cluttered with DPF deleted cars that are really just "DPF LIGHT" deleted cars and the customer is non the wiser, until it all goes pear shaped.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

You can have your car impounded by the police for producing smoke mate. Its illegal and being enforced more and more by the month.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publicati...ksandstops.htm

Also, if the calibrator is crap enough, you may fail the emissions test too.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repositor...sel%20card.pdf

AstoN_B

iTrader: (1)

From a motor trade point of view diesels are a pain. Usually an expensive pain.

Obviously turning off the regeneration and pressure sensors is bound to go tits up lol. Only time I'd ever turn off dpf is on a car I own and had removed the filter from. We've developed a cleaning process which has a 100% success rate on otherwise 'end of life' particulate filters.

It's a bit labour intensive but cheaper than a new unit from BMW for over £1100. They say its a throw away part, we've proved it can be serviced, but its a pain when the pre-05 cars weren't particularly smoky anyway.

It seems the newer cars get the more high maintenance and fussy they're becoming. Which is a false economy in many aspects.

saph4be

On the guys opening page he states he map your problems away for such faults as hesitation, flat spots and low revs! Now toe you should not remap a car with faults? Or am I wrong?

Carlos-Titx

Made me laugh the other day hearing a window tinting company now offering remaps.

"Sqeeeeeeeze SQUEEEEEEEEZE

Squeeze every bit of power from your engine"

I'd rather not!


My mate was asking me who was best for mapping his ST. Told him a few names, Dreamscience I used or Revo who have a good name or if you can do the distance MSD. He got some mobile tuner turn up in a van and upload a map

SapphyMike

Interesting topic.

Some of these "man in a van" types arent all bad you know - they use files from reputable companies like MSD. So they may not have a land line, premises etc, but use files written by a reputable company. So whats the view on these?

Carlos-Titx

I'd rather trust a Recomended reputable company.

I wouldn't if dreamed getting a man in van map my ST after working so hard to buy one.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

I know that reputable companies who have been mentioned do great maps - but I've always liked the safety factor of a handset enabling you to chuck the standard map back on if there's an issue. They tend to be 'safe' maps, and are generic, so won't develop as much power as a bespoke map, (nor make the best use of other mods) but are a good bet if you're likely to need to revert it to standard when you want to.

I put a PPC map from BSR on my car today, and it feels great so far!

2Litre

Dan , that is exactly what MSD do . A safe map for a certain spec.
Your engine will alway perform better if you blow it's nose.
In Malta fueling is ron 95 !(if your lucky) the buses(diesel) that have just in the last year been taken off the the roads (running 1955) perkins engine s will kill you three times!
I am a petrol head no different to all on this site but burning fuel efficiantley is paramount!!!!!!!!!!! Tim.

BRAM

iTrader: (1)

Do you not recommend taking the dpf off then stu
I've been thinking about doing this to my mondeo but don't want to break anything.

SapphyMike

I think he may mean that the DPF hasnt been removed, just the light has been turned off?

AstoN_B

iTrader: (1)

Think what he's saying is that people are switching off the dpf function but leaving the filter in place. obviously a daft idea cause it'll block up quick and won't be able to tell you or self-clean.

If you want to remove it you can, but you should have it plugged in and adjusted to suit. It's a case of do both or neither.

Similar to de-catting a car. Do it properly and you should see good benefits (unless you're an environmentalist).

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

I'd also be wary of anyone saying they can "remove the DPF regen function". As far as I know you can't remove it, but rather alter the map so that the car doesn't try to regen.

Rick

Some ECU's - probably the majority - can have the entire DPF functionality turned off. This is how a car would leave the factory if it wasn't equipped with a DPF, and this is how it should be configured when DPF is removed. Trouble is it's difficult to find this function in an ECU to disable, which is why most people don't do it.

What tends to happen is what Stu describes above. To elaborate, usually a large chunk of the DTC table is simply wiped. This means that the car will no longer trigger the MIL - even for non DPF related functions. So now the light won't come on... But what about limp mode? Simple - increase the limp mode torque limiter to that of normal operation, and the driver will never know the car is in limp! Often the car still tries to regenerate, leading to smoke and poor fuel consumption.

Rick

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Never - Ever.
Unless its what we call a "Feature of the car" that was there from production. Mapping around faults and masking problems with extra fuel is a mugs game and causes only heartache.

When a car comes to us, it goes on the snap on verdict and has a test drive to ensure all is well before we will touch it. If its not, the job ends there and the customer is informed its not suitable for remapping, and is given his options.

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

all your franchise dealers do this too?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Yes mate - Well, they are supposed to at least, obviously I cant knowingly state all 105 of they absolutely do, but that is our policy and a requirement of them working for us, yes.

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

that's good to know.

i can well imagine the amount of cowboys out there, i bet its rife! Can you imagine a 1 man band show driving all the way to a customers house to remap a car for £200 and them not doing it because of other issues? He'll remap it regardless