The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

why didn't proctor race on the sunday at croft in the british rallycross grand prix???

.........oh yes his JG engine blew up on the saturday!!

steve

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi guys
it is a lot of money when for similar money you can have this

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/t...-manifold.html

all alloy v8 full billet intake ,every part custom or after market 1500 bhp 1200flb drive everyday on the road surely this must have at least the same or more r&d in it ,dont get me wrong jg engine very trick but uses a secondhand £500 block and a secondhand £400 head is has work on them but were can you justify £61,000 really i think they are that price because people will pay that for them because that is what the rules allow doesent mean thats what its worth ,if the rules were to say anything goes would people use that engine ,its like when i was at honda world super bikes a radiator was £6000 exhaust £6000 forks £80000 you cant tell me they are worth that as parts, its just thats what they had to use so the price can be what ever

thanks mark

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

just another thought you cant blame jg for asking that price ,if there people buying thats business ,but if people didnt buy them would he still keep them at £61,000 ? ,and that nelson racing engine guy who i bought my twin turbo engine off ,he bought one fitted it in his car and went and did 265 mph in it with i think it was 16/18 pounds off boost and could wind it up to 30 lol and i saw motor it was a work off art the machining was out this world

mark

dojj

iTrader: (3)

but some cars NEED a yb in the engine bay to participate in the events they are participating in mate

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi there
is that not what i said ,were i said the rules proberly state this is what they have to use so thats why people pay this price ,if they said anything goes would people use a £61,000 yb engine

mark

rs_traynor

ill take 2 thanks

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

This thread is almost as good as the roof rack one

dojj

iTrader: (3)

fair enough, i'm sure you could get much more power for much less money if you stuck a jap engine in there as i feel a v8 is going to be a bit of a squeeze with the exhuasts and twin turbos in the way

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi
i had a twin turbo v8 in one of my escossy 1000bhp 1100flb all ally small block fitted it a treat that engine brand new with all loom ecu etc etc £28,000

mark

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

just out of interst i would like to see a break down of the cost ,this is in no way taking anything away from the guys at jg they obviously know what there doing and taking it to another level
heres my go at pricing

head £3500
block £4000
arrow crank £2000
arrow rods £1000
pistons £900
turbo £1800
inlet £3000
manifold £2000
sump /girdle £4000
ecu loom £5000
ancilleres and building mapping £10,000

total £36,200

mark

It's Czech Mate

The guy runs a business with years of experience, R&D, tooling and knowledge factored into the work/price

Your list suggests all you have to do is accumulate a list of parts that other people spec which all work perfectly togetherand then the magically self assemble themselves once in the vicinity of the car

Hope you run your business better than that with a better costing system

Rod-Tarry

678ft-lb very similar to mine.

Rod-Tarry

You can add 1.5k on the exhaust manifold also those throttle bodies are +2k & the sump/girdle with the dry sump is +3 k. Thats over 42k.

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi
if you read the top its not knocking jg ,it does say just out of interest ,can you tell me how does he do it then , if not accumulate parts that other people make turbo ,inlet ,exhaust ,dry sump pump, crank rods ,pistons ,cams ,springs ,ecu loom ,injectors ,gaskets ,seals etc and bolt them together ,and thats what i allowed within the £10,000 ,plus it has been suggested he sells 20/30 a year and i think he has done that if we say 3/4 years thats 90/120 engines between £54.000 and £61,ooo would he not have his major r&d time back by now , and as for my buisness i am not in the same league as jg so my prices have to reflect that

mark

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi rod
do you think thats the cost when buying between 20/30 a year ,i know when i have spoke to harvey ref engines if you buy all the parts from him and he builds your engine he passes some of his discount he gets for buying in bulk on to you ,but like i said it was just out of interest i asked and did my list not to cause upset or insult to anyone , plus the engines must be worth it to his customers or he wouldnt sell 20/30 a year ,

mark

dojj

iTrader: (3)

if that engine goes tits up, will he fiit the repair bill?

just wondering

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

If the engine has a issue that's jg,s fault I'd say yes it's a warranty

But this isn't the average builder you will pay for what no other an do but I wouldn't think that 1 or 2customers are buying all 20-30 engines so the asking price in the add is for 1engine but if the customer wants 2or3 then I bet Francis would do a deal I bet

JHS

iTrader: (1)

Amusing how people complain about the price when they clearly know nothing about what these engines are used for.

JG will probably be available at the track/premises when you're racing. That backup is also worth a lot to these people...
Julian is a really nice guy, spoke to him a few years ago when he drove his RS200 road car over to Norway.
Sverre Isachsen, European Rallycross Championship winner 2009, 2010 and 2011 is using Julian Godfrey YB engine for example.

Division 1 is the topp class of rallycross, just like WRC is the top class of rally. And F1 is the top of tarmac racing.

How about you give M-Sport a call and get them to price up a brand new WRC engine complete with all accessories...?! Or how about you price up a new F1 engine with all accessories?

Comparing this engine to all sorts of other stuff just shows lack of knowledge.

By the way, here is a engine Julian Godfrey did earlier. Its fitted in a Focus div. 1 rallycross car. Price? £200-250k.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Exactly

Ade500

iTrader: (1)

I used Julian to inspect my engine this year as he is so well respected , it failed as soon as it was run in while being mapped , he was very helpful and knowledgeable guy.

Rod-Tarry

Jay
Not everyone thinks JB is god.
This is from a site im on. Ive quoted this guy in full there has been no response from JG.


I appreciate that installation is a big issue; except not in this case.
In 2010 I bought a Stewart rally-spec Duratec engine from Ireland for my Mk2 Escort with zero stage miles, needed one in a hurry. I removed the fuel injection, fitted a pair of 48DCO-SP Webers (required by regs), did a bit of jetting and won the first rally I entered with it.
At the end of the 2010 season I contracted Julian Godfrey Engineering to rebuild the engine (for peace of mind), dyno-jet the carbs and re-map the spark-only ECU for better mid-range performance, which he did - the invoice was twice the quotation but I paid it. After approximately 50 stage miles in my first rally with the rebuilt engine I heard a bottom-end noise on a road section; I shut it down and retired from the rally. After removing the engine from the car and removing the sump I found the number four big end bearing (closest to oil supply) had spun inside its connecting rod. I returned the engine to Godfrey by air freight where the crank, rods, bearings and bolts were changed. I received no explanation from Goddfrey for why the problem occurred; I paid to rebuild the engine again despite assuring Julian that the installation had not changed in any way.
After approximately 50 miles of testing and stage rallying the engine threw number four connecting rod through the block. I contacted Julian Godfrey and politely expressed my disappointment. After a mutually-agreed inspection of the dismantled engine and dry-sump plumbing installation by a local Godfrey customer and accomplished race engineer and my maintaining that there had to be a reason why a perfectly installed, working and winning engine should fail twice after rebuilds by him, Julian agreed that if I sent the oil supply lines and dry sump tank to him for inspection and he found nothing wrong with them, he would replace the engine free of charge. I sent the oil tank and lines by FedEx. Julian inspected the pipes and tanks and said he could find nothing wrong with either of these which might have caused the problem. I air-freighted what was left of the engine back to him for the third time for warranty repairs.
In late April 2012 Godfrey told me the parts he needed to rebuild the engine for the third time would cost approximately £3,000 and I’d have to pay half (despite his earlier agreement). By this time I had already air-freighted what was left of the engine back to Godfrey at great expense based on our previous arrangement so I was forced to agree to this due to thetimescale.
On May 11th, 2012 I received an invoice by e-mail from Frances Godfrey for £6,924 for the third rebuild of the engine. I told Frances that this was not my agreement with Julian and to have him call me. To date I have received no call but after an e-mail exchange I instructed them to pack up the parts I sent them in February 2012 and send them back to me so I could have a reputable engine builder build me a new engine.
As anyone reading this can tell, Julian Godfrey’s problem is not simply that he builds bad engines, it is that he is an unscrupulous businessman. We all have problems in our professions but how we deal with them defines our professionalism. I am partly to blame for not meeting my motor sport commitments over the past 18 months because, as the old saying goes: “Trick me once, shame on you; trick me twice, shame on me!” I have been rallying for 28 years and the first engine failure I have ever experienced is with this Godfrey engine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chunder, I'm in Barbados, not Ireland. I sent the engine to JG because he was recommended to me by a local who runs a YB rallycross engine as well as Pat Doran who is a friend of mine.
I don't think changing the jetting and bearings made the engine unreliable; I'll never know for sure but i believe JG's oil pressure settings were too low on the Pace pump. The car ran at 40/85 psi before I sent it to JG and 25/65 psi when it came back. I contacted JG about it when I first started it up but was told it was perfect. Bear in mind that both failures were conrod bearings closest to the dry sump oil supply into the block (#4). Subsequent Duratec research seems to indicate they run high oil pressures and minimum clearances with the tabless bearings (some say the pressure should be 100psi).

__________________________________________________ ___________

And no, it's not just my side. A friend here in Barbados had the same thing happen to a Field Duratec rebuilt by JG at the beginning of this year that also threw rod bearings out on two separate occasions after 50-odd miles. That engine was top of its class for four years before JG, he's now gone to Dunnell. I've even found a couple people in Uk (which was the purpose of this post) who've had similar problems and there is legal action pending I'm hoping to join.
Maybe JG can build YBs and can't build Duratecs; that really isn't the issue. The problem is he's unscrupulous and is 'too busy' to deal with customer problems. An engine builder is only ever as good as his reputation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------


I agree; everyone makes mistakes. How we deal with them determines our reputation. Since I posted this I have been in touch with several people whose JG stories are identical to mine and 3 of them sent JG perfectly working engines just like I did for rebuild and upgrade. It seems I'll be able to get in on a legal suit against JG so there might be some good coming out of my internet inquiries in addition to warning fellow racers. What has added insult to injury is I've found out JG has trade insurance against poor workmanship and really didn't need to behave like a complete ********; unless he's made so many claims already he's in danger of losing it. Maybe he should take some time out of his rallycross fun and sort his business out; too late for me.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Mate there isn't a tuner builder alive that haven't made mistakes or think they haven't I've known of this case for a while and I won't stick up for him as I don't know the facts so we will see what comes with it ! But I'd still use him over other builders as if that's just a couple of issues in all the time he's been trading then it's not bad really , and least not forget even if a big powered engine isn't built by him it will still have more than likely a copy of his bottom end cam choice and even head work so why would you use a imatater knows how his designs really work

And I don't think he's a god no one can be 100% immaculate but he is not be me but many others rated above all the uk builders for a race engine

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi
how many are on the grid in this rallycross championship

mark

kev 3dr

iTrader: (1)

think in the final this year there was 4 or 5 cars out of 8
JG's fiesta, Dorans ds3, proctors focus andy grant focus and fiesta also Liam dorans global rallycross car

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

13 registered for the 2012 british rallycross championship in the supercar class

http://www.rallycrossuk.com/current-standings

steve

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi
how many would be using jgs engine do you think

mark

Cossie Sean

motorsport, it isnt just engines that is expensive

have a chat about suspension or sequential paddle shift clutchless gearboxes........
and prices of WRC spec tarmac suspension, for pretty much anything, we used to fit Reiger stuff to N12 subaru gpA cars, at something stupid like 10000euros a set, and several sets would be bought and setup on different springs

These engines are cheap, nothing more to be said really

motorsport, not trackdays but pukka motorsport is big bucks, i was shown round Per Eklunds spares truck at croft a few years ago when he killed an engine, he had 3 spare in the truck and enough parts to build 2 more cars, can you imaging how much cash had been spunked into that??

£61k for a sodding engine is pocket money

steveboyslim

You are miles out with your prices, a few examples, the waste gate £1195 +vat (from the manufacturer) the Arrow crank used is a non-standard specification part with extra counterbalance weight and is more like £3000, the Auto Verdi oil pump used is nearly £2000, the Tibuc nearly £5000 with all the parts, an Inconel exhaust manifold again the best part of £5000 then there is a motorsport Honneywell Garrett turbo see how much change you have from £7000.


Steve

Mark Shead

I think JG own car had a comp turbo when I saw it at Spec r when I dropped a car off,
I would put the ex man at £3k as this is how much PD charge me for my own one.
The rest off the cost are about right,
JG will make very good money on his engine and thats because he earnt the right to.

Mark

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

yours doesn't have a turbo restrictor

steveboyslim

130,000 euro for the WRC Ford Pipo build direct fuel injected l4 Duratec, was about 70,000 euro for the world touring car I4 engine.

Steve

steveboyslim

£3k made from 321 stainless or Inconel ?
I was quoted nearly 50% more for Inconel.

Steve

Mark Shead

Inconel.

Mark

steveboyslim

Recently ?

Steve

Mark Shead

I always get a sharp intake of breath when I ask about the updated cost as inconel always seems to be on the up.

Mark

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi steve
sorry didnt relise the parts were that much still doesn't ad nearly £25,000 onto what i said ,like i also said i am not having a go at jg products as they are clearly very good ,i have spoken to julian and scott a few times and also spent the day with them at blyton when they were looking after Carnegie and his focus ,it was a good day but both his engines blew up ,if you look at the start of the thread i think the first post was justifying £61,000 for a yb which no one has ,its also just a discussion so everyone is guessing with there answers as no one has come up with a list of parts and actual cost prices ,also people going on about how his engines win these champion ships i think he has pretty good odds with 5 out 8 running them
and if there's 5 people running them and they last 2/3 seasons and hes selling 20/30 a year whos buying the other 45/70 engines lol ,like i say i think he is very clever just interested in this discussion as to how they end up at that price really ,never once have i said there not worth it

mark

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Francis is very strict on her pricingI try to get prices off Julian or Scott first then speak to her lol

Mark Shead

I dont get the manifolds from them I have them made for me by PD to my spec.

Mark

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

Mk over 10k of the price is vat

MK MOTORSPORT

iTrader: (1)

hi tony

good to chat to you again ,yes i forgot about vat still £50,000 is a lot of money yo uhave been doing engines for a long time do you think 50k plus vat is justified for what you get

mark