brad

Gauging opinions on the best way to realease more ponies out of a v8 from some of the "been there done that" or " ive read lots about it" members on here.

If you wanted around 450-550hp in a street legal vehicle meaning it has to be driveable and as reliable as possible which set up would you opt for?

For arguements sake lets say you could pick either a ls1 or the lighter ls4 alloy motor both of which are around 300hp out of the box.

andy escos

iTrader: (1)

what is it going in & do you want people to know what you got under the bonnet ( big blower sticking out the bonnet )or do you want it hidden?

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

Nothing constructive to add other than I love the sound of a supercharged V8, the two compliment each other so well and this is coming from someone who hates supercharger whine on 4 cylinder engines.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

Depends how you want the power to come in.
Supercharger is where I'd be heading for smooth delivery, although turbos give you that big kick

Rs1

iTrader: (1)

Probably going to make more sense to pick a motor that will suit without forced induction.
Ls7 job done.

brad

Im going to replace the rover v8 in my old mazda pick up

Once emptied it weighs in at a little over 1.1 tonne but with the bed cut out and old leaf springs replaced with four bar link etc etc it should weigh in at just under a tonne so its not exactly a heavy weight considering its a box section chassis design.

Im not fussed if its hidden or in your face, the reliability and useability are the most important factors.
I know i could go all out and ship in a 800-1000hp pro street motor for it but i want something that will sit in traffic without throwing up all its fluids

Mark V8

iTrader: (2)

Here's a pic of a 4-71 GMC blown Rover engined MX5 I stole from the V8 forum



Looks brilliant!

brad

I imagine that mx5 is a bit of fun

heres a friend of mines blown 3.5 capri. its not slow but i definately want more than a 3.5 rover can deliver.

brad

this is another friends t4 turbo'd 3.5 rover engined mk1 van


again its not slow by any means but its taken years to get it to the point where its almost reliable, yet a stage 2-3 saff would still tear it a new arsehole

stevieturbo

LS1 is all alloy, so an LS4 isnt going to be any lighter. And a basic LS1 is around 340-350 with an easy 380-400 with mild bolt ons ( ie manifolds, intake etc )
Or the later larger engines will produce a bit more.
Heads/cam/exhaust etc should see an easy 500bhp

And if you only want 500bhp, that is easily achievable with any normally aspirated LS variant. It would be a waste of money turbocharging or supercharging for such a low final goal, and both of those items would only reduce reliability.

So refine your goals etc and rethink ( and of course budget )

brad

Cheers for replying Steve

I honestly hadnt read anywhere that the ls1 was all alloy, I probably skimmed straight over it so one of these for me
I also found a lot of people on the american sites that have discussed the early LS range claim the power figures to be around 280-300 standard so again infact il take two

Unfortunately im in a position where my only form of info for these engines is reading stuff on tinternet and as we all know a lot of info is misleading or generally untrue hence my post on here.
i should also add my target power figures are a little conservative but 450 is minimum 550 is ideal useable figure but a little more would be nice.
Theres no way i could get much more power down as about a 70% majority of the weight of the truck is in the front and its not exactly heavy as it is, I could tub it out but its not really the look i want.

The reason why im looking down the forced induction route is simple (but possibly mis informed). from my understanding you can take a standard fresh ls1 crate motor and without any major internal upgrades decent set of headers and jetting and run low boost to produce a healthy 450-550 of both tourque and horse power without upping the rev limit too far. Also achievable without spending thousands upon thousands on engineer time by purchasing tried and tested bolt on items off the shelf in the uk?.

From reading stuff on the net it seems that to get the same kind of power from naturally aspirated i would have to get into the realms of cams, pistons, rods, headwork, extra cooling, altered compression, injection systems and management all of which adds up to quite a lot of work/time/money and of course im then relying upon other people and thier ability to spec and build something properly.

100% not arguing or disagreeing with what you say as i know youve been there and done it with v8s.

Oh and to throw a spanner in the works i allready have a complete running 4.6 rover lump i could use if there was any way of squeezing sensible power out of it which i somewhat doubt or i could use it for another coffee table

stevieturbo

There are various books with info on LS's. Or just go to LS1Tech.com

But TBH, as SR1 said. For what you want, just opting for bog standard LS7 crate motor would make a lot of sense. It'll do 500bhp all day long and be totally reliable.

Or this lightly modified LS engine
http://shop.partsworldperformance.co...ngine-19259233

Full LS7 crate
http://shop.partsworldperformance.co...ngine-19244098

Blown version
http://shop.partsworldperformance.co...ngine-19211708

If you currently have no parts, then some of the above would make a lot of sense.

If you already have a base engine...hard to say really. But boosting a standard n/a engine does yield good results, but the standard pistons are not designed for boost, and they will eventually break. So you do need to bare that in mind.

You could also give Craig at Dynotorque in Birmingham a shout. He does a lot of conversions and has built a good few engines.

brad

Cheers Steve

I have spent hours flicking through the ls1 tech forum and there doesnt seem to be any bullshit on there unlike so many others.

Its starting to make me question the forced induction route now tho

stevieturbo

If you were in the US and had access to the cheap 4.8's or 5.3's, for say a few hundred dollars, then some boost, that would be an ideal budget build.

But by the time you sourced one there, had it shipped over, then rebuilt etc...the new crate motors here really do represent good value. And sticking with n/a, it is simply a matter of fit and forget.

500hp is a relatively low power goal, and boost just isnt needed at that level.

That said, second hand blowers and parts do come up for sale from time to time over on the HSV/Monaro section of Pistonheads. As that seems to be the most common boosted application here.
Although they usually use the old Rootes valley style blowers. Great for low rpm torque, but not always great for top end or sustained use as there is no provision for decent charge cooling.

Mark_

Steve is there a build thread on here of your Granada?
Just watched the you tube video in your sig, Bloody awsome

stevieturbo

Nope lol.

Mark_

That's a shame, Would have been a good read

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

supercharger on a v8 just a better package imo

bj928

i like to stick a ford in a ford, and the ford v8 with supercharger is wide but low, u can get a superchargered 4.6 ford v8 under the bonnet of a ford focus as the supercharger sits down in the V, depends on ur budget, but i'm building my ford v8 from parts found on the american forums to keep costs down, helps also that i'm working in america so have an address to use and then will ship all the bits in one hit to the uk, if u need me to get any bits send me a pm, always happy to help


ford v8 supercharged in ford focus engine bay


with bonnet down

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Rover v8s are just shit full stop, get a blown small block chevy

scoooby slayer

iTrader: (4)

Now that is awesome

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Having looked into this quite a bit recently, as I do fancy pulling some more ponies from the IS (granted it's an I6 not a V8), it really depends what you want from it. If you want no lag, and "always on" boost, then supercharging is the way to go. But, do a decent turbo conversion, and you can set it up OEM style and with the right turbo, get the boost to come on early enough (say 2500rpm) and progressively, so it feeds in without noticeable lag and that big kick, and still pull all the way to the redline. But it's a fine balance between small enough turbo to come on early enough but not so small it runs out of puff trying to hit the limiter.

As for superchargers, I'd be real tempted to look at a centrifugal charger as opposed to a twin screw. They are more like turbos, but like nearly all S/C's, they'll be "on boost" from idle. Centri's generally make more torque lower down, and more power higher up, whereas the twin screw will feed in more power and torque more or less equally as the revs rise. Plus, centri's are quieter (these days I'm not about screaming superchargers and loud dump valves, etc. I don't mind a subtle turbo whistle, but I'd not want it screaming like a twin screw, or getting excessive chatter from turbo's)

bj928

everything i've ever read, says the centrifugal chargers have worse lag than a turbo, thats why i'm going wipple twin screw, first, then maybe turbo later on next build, and the newer whipple don't scream, the older ones did.

u can bearly here this is supercharged, and he has the bonnet up

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Really? I read a few bits about them, and said they were like the best of both worlds - max torque low down, max power high up, no lag and quiet - which is my ideal combo!

I'd quite happily go down the turbo route with mine - a medium sized turbo (ie, GT25 or 28 I think it was) on a standard 1G-FE like mine, with just uprated injectors, uprated fuel pump and a piggy back fuel ECU will sit at 250/260 all day long (although they've been known to take 280 quite happily) with minimal noise and lag.

TTE did a supercharger kit for the IS, which is a simple bolt on +50hp job, but I just don't like the noise they make!

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Depends if you want 500 crank or wheel horsepower.

Also depends on the blower. Roots produce allot of heat. TwinScrew like a Whipple produce less heat and more volume.

Then you wanna get it ported to hold boost and have the scilencer holes filled.

Pro charger / Vortec work good as well.

Mine just sound's fucking awesome when it starts pumping.

cossie.con

Job done

stevieturbo

And depends what part of the world that power is measured, and what dyno, and how much fudge was added to the dyno

If it was an American dyno, you'd need to target about 800hp lol

And that video above was crap lol

bj928

if the american dynos r reading that high, how can my viper engine be 500hp stock over in america (flywheel) and with just a chip change and cats gone, get 600hp (flywheel) in the uk,

stevieturbo

hard to know really. But they rate a UK 500fwhp Walbro pump at over US 550rwhp.

The rate an 044 pump at around 730rwhp, yet in the UK much past 600 flywheel is pushing it.

US dynos read high, that is fact.

Of course, no idea what dyno you used in the UK, and again the reason I rarely ever believe any dyno numbers.

Sonic Boom

iTrader: (11)

Take one LS3 stroke it to 7 litres bolt on two GT30's run them at 7psi and have 819 BHP at the wheels (it's proabably alittle harder than that)

Check out Dyno Torques website they do loads of LS V8 work:
http://www.dynotorque.co.uk/
Rich

stevieturbo

GT30's would be far too small for a 7.0.

Craig uses GT35 based units as far as I am aware.

Sonic Boom

iTrader: (11)

Yes your right mate slight typo.
Rich

.Ross.

iTrader: (2)

Hey some USA dynos don't read high, Mustang dyno don't read high at all.

They predict HP by weight and wind resistance at 50mph.

Flywheel HP always sounds better. What do you think? 520HP sounds better than 412 at the wheels.