stevieturbo

Some of the MOT rules make no sense.

One of the new rules was headlamp washers for HID headlamp cars. Now car makers have been fitting these for around 10 years. However, they have NOT been fitting headlamp washers for 10 years. ( only became standard practise after 2010 )

Your VOSA changed the wording of the test to say they may be fitted, and if fitted must be working.

The wankers at our MOT are insisting they MUST be fitted, and are enforcing this. Some people have got a letter from the car maker ( Honda was one ) stating the car never had headlamp washers, it does not need them and cannot be retro fitted.

And yes, the MOT centre failed it. It has been a contentious issue, but they are standing firm despite the total stupidity.

Meanwhile they are passing cars with dangerously corroded brake discs, squashed brake pipes etc etc.

So clearly having firm rules, or even stuff open to interpretation is a huge minefield when there are complete ballbags enforcing the rules.

And a camera should not be a fail point anyway it it isnt in the field of vision. Lack of mirror however would be a fail. the rules dont stipulate whether you can actually see out the rear screen. Just that there has to be mirrors fitted. A car is still a car for the purposes of the test, so requires the 2 mirrors, one of which must be internal.

A Van/commercial does not require the interior

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

surely if they are not following the MoT rules then VOSA will rape them??

That mirror rule is daft.

what about someone who does a van conversion on a fiesta or similar. Can they remove the mirror even though it wasnt a van from new? And if so, whats to stop me telling the MoT man i use it as a van?

And further to that if someone modified a car derived van fiesta with a cage etc (van being lighter base car) would they have to fit a mirror as its technically not a van anymore??

mk2 cossie

if its mounted where the rear view mirror is/was, then i cant see it being a problem. as the wording in the manual is affecting the drivers view of the road!
unless you get a lanky as fook tester, the camera shouldnt be a fail
as long as theres ther drivers door mirror and the mirror on the passenger side its MOTable

stevieturbo

How can they fail a car on something it was never fitted with in the first place !!!! They know the rules are totally stupid, they know they are wrong. Yet they are still enforcing it. VOSA's rules are different to here. VOSA have already amended the wording regarding the headlamp washers. Our DVANI are just refusing the acknowledge their own stupidity insisting the rules come from Europe....er nope they dont.
And as I say, they are passing cars with serious safety issues.

And until your tax book says it's a van, and it's going through a PSV and not an MOT...yes the mirror will be needed.

One local guy with a BMW with HID's and no washers even went to the extend of buying some washer hose, a cheap pump and some jets. He duct taped these to the bumper and wired them up temporarily. The jets were pointing at the headlamps. After much deliberation at the MOT centre they passed it. He just refused to drill holes in his bumper for something that isnt needed.

Of course a friend recently fitted headlamp washers to his Subaru Forester STI, which never had them....and of course the MOT never even checked them.

slimwynn

dose any one know if both headlights are removed and used as air in takes is a pass or fail?

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

so its ALL NI mot stations that rule applies to then???

If its just one station not following the rules then it must be the same here that an MoT station can get in shit for breaking the rules??

or are NI MoT stations unsupervised in any way and can essentially make it up as they go along???

mk2 cossie

if all the lights are removed for the test (or taped over according to VOSA ), then it can be done as a daylight test and needs no working lights at all

stevieturbo

All out test centres here are government run. The same rules apply throughout. Obviously how those rules are enforced will be down to individual testers ( where it is down to their discretion )
Things like emissions, brakes, shocks etc are harder to bypass as these are all computer tested and recorded. Obviously things like a duff light, number plates, headlamp washers. Who really cares ? All of those things are a box ticking exercise, and chances of anything ever getting pulled for ignoring one would be rare.


In much the same way whilst VOSA applies the rules over there, whether a car passes or fails is down to the tester. Or even if a car even goes through a test station and gets an MOT cert lol
It is well known that it is far easier to "obtain" an MOT over there than it is here, and the reason most rally cars here are MOT'd in England or Scotland. Not sure if the cars actually go there or not.
Although the whole computerisation of the system is supposed to tighten this up.

stevieturbo

Ive heard that only applies to motorbikes ?

Cant see why anyone would ever want to remove their headlights anyway, unless it was a dedicated track car or something.
Although I do find it hilarious people with air filters sticking out where their headlight used to be.

I guess they think it makes them go faster or something.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Stevie, our MOT stations are monitored and routinely inspected for compliance. You are suggesting no mot station in NI has any checks to ensure it follows the rules? and has no way for anyone to challenge the decision??

I find that strange considering pretty much any other government organisation or body has checks for compliance either internally or externally run.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

its done for a good cold air feed.

However where they havent ducted it in properly id imagine the extra drag from the hole around the filter cancels out any gains in performance due to reduced ACT's

stevieturbo

As they are government run centres, I'm sure there is continuous monitoring. These arent centres like a one man garage that could be found over there. They are centres, usually 4-5 lanes testing everything from bikes to HGV's
There will be complaints procedures, appeals etc etc

Whether or not there is random secret shopper style tests going on, Ive no idea. But as there is no incentive to either pass or fail cars, there should be less chance of dodgy going ons.

That is not the case over there. If the same garage might get more work from failing cars, clearly there are incentives to fail cars.
And as they are privately run, there is also more chance of a backhander pass, which is why iffy vehicles like rally cars etc from Northern Ireland get MOT's in England !

My brother moved to England years ago. he took his car to a station for MOT prep and test. The car failed....like how is that possible ?? the same people preparing the car then failed the car ? ŁŁŁŁ or what ?

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

true but they get caught out over here eventually if people bother to grass them up.

It seems in NI they can do what they want on stuff that isnt recorded and there is no practical way to stop them.

in theory under the NI system every test standard should be identical surely as there is no room to manouver unlike our more flexible mainland system.

is the whole of NI governed in seemingly daft ways?


Makes you wonder why they have their own versions of RTA and DVLA when scotland and wales use the same system as england.

Cant see a logical reason for there being a need for a different system in NI.

stevieturbo

As far as the test goes, ours is stricter. For visuals, yours is no different and relies solely on the tester ticking a box. Any test that relies on human intervention will always be open to "abuse" for wont of a better description.

Brake performance, shock performance, headlights, emissions are all computer controlled/recorded here. I think they can be manually overridden, but this would also be recorded that this has been done. So if there was ever a check carried out...they could ask why was the test result overridden ? The original results would all be recorded, and someone would have to explain.
Not sure if the manual override requires authorisation from a manager or not.

I know one of the reasons for government run centres here was the security situation. At least this way vehicle details, and more importantly their owners details were kept in a reasonably controlled environment. Still not totally secure, but more secure than having random garages with access to owner details.

Although lots of military and police personnel would have plates with ghost address's registered to them to protect the owners details. Probably doesnt go on to the same extent these days though.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Id probably say its almost completely unnecessary these days.

I dont think the MoT system over here lists registered keeper, there is no reason for the MoT man to know that info.

Although it doesnt help over here that DVLA sells your info to any cunt but thats nothing to do with MOT testing.

Why are the test criteria stricter? they must have some official justification as im sure its a commonly asked question. Especially as a mainland MoT is valid in NI.........

From my experiences driving over in NI, the standard of driving is worse than mainland and the attitude to drink driving for example seems shocking compared to here, but that doesnt effect the need for higher MoT standards.

A case where an aspect devolution has gone wrong? and made things worse for the people???

stevieturbo

Are there more people drink driving in England than here ? Drink driving really isnt that common here. Maybe down south it is worse, but definitely not here. And there are a lot of cops on the road who will do random stops etc.
Only just 2-3 weeks ago I was driving late at night and came upon two different checkpoints on the road. That is the first Ive seen them in a while though. PITA when I was trying to do some tuning on my car....noise carries like fuck lol

I say the test is stricter because more of the tests are automated and computer recorded taking the testers opinion out of it. As I said, headlight alignment, brake performance, shock performance, emissions. Although emissions could be skewed slightly by mucking about with the probe. The others cant easily have their results skewed.
The shaker plates etc they use for testing suspension joints etc...not sure if your stations even have these ? They are pretty harsh and easily show any issues.

Plus again as the test is more independent, it should be a better system. The tester has nothing to gain or lose by passing or failing a car. They wont be getting paid to fix it, and many of them wouldnt have a clue how to even if they were lol

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

you missed my point about stricter testing. a standard is a standard. How you measure it is another issue.

eg 1.6mm tread is 1.6mm tread however you measure it.

why does NI need stricter standards?? just because they use a government controlled testing station shouldnt mean a car can pass in england and yet fail in NI.

You drive on the same basic standard roads and drive the same kind of cars in the same range of environments so wheres the logic behind a different standard??

stevieturbo

I didnt say the standards were stricter. Just the test methods for some aspects as far as I am aware. The standards are pretty much the same ( except headlamp washers lol )

But it's easier for a tester to turn a blind eye over there. That may be changing with the computerisation, but it is still easier as they can be a lone station with maybe only 1 or 2 employees with nobody really watching over what goes on.

A few years ago a friend got an MOT for his car on the mainland from a test station. The certificate was finished and printed by the time he had even got there lol Very prompt service :P

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

Ahh ok, so if you present your car accurately maintained to the current UK (mainland) MoT standards then it WILL pass in NI then???

stevieturbo

In theory yes. Except for HID headlamp washers lol

Although in saying that...we need dual marked speedo's here, mph and kph. More of an issue with jap imports as they only display kph. Most converted clocks then only display mph, not both.

Until the recent changes, I dont think a speedo of any kind was even part of your test ? Same with obvious things like ensuring the battery is secure. I seen some moan about that being introduced with the new changes. That's always been part of our test.

So there could still be other things you dont test for and we do.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

do you still have a sex age of consent of 17 in NI??

any other weird law differences?

lukeytheduke

right boys. I had 3 hours sleep last night and still confused about the mirror situation. I have driver side and passanger side wing mirrors but no interior. So will this pass or not lol?? Cheers

RS2000CUSTOM

This is the Testing Guide ALL UK Mainland MOT testers have to work with

Have a read through

VOSA TESTING GUIDE

here is the Testers Manual for

Class 1 & 2 (Motorbike)

and

Class 3, 4, 5 & 7 (Class 4 is relevant to car testing)

DAN-Saff

I didn't say a car is a van, I gave the CORRECT info that it only needs 2 mirrors like a van.

lukeytheduke

dave thats a big document.do uknow what section i need to look in??

jamie's

yes it will pass

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

for mirrors bit u want section 8.1 for the doors its section 6.2