joffy

iTrader: (1)

Hair injectors hey? is that like male extensions lol

Are you the only person whose ever done 200? never heard it mentioned before?

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Martin it needs to be in your signature mate.....

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I remember burning my hand on that very item that day.

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

I remember it too The good old days

DazC

iTrader: (1)

ECU controlled air injectors for me please!

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Tea's up....

stevieturbo

Air injectors can do NOTHING over what a typical boost control solenoid setup can. They are just an expensive version of a modern solenoid, at least with a modern setup the failsafe is wastegate pressure.
Seems with air injectors there is no failsafe.

It's far easier and cheaper just to use a 3 port, or better still 4 port solenoid. As to how you control the solenoid ( or expensive air injectors ) will vary.

EBC's work very well, they are very simple to operate and usually do a very good job. Any decent ecu can be programmed to do the same, or perhaps even more if the user wants or needs it.

But the actual air injectors themselves offer no benefit at all.

GARETH T

I do sort of agree with you. In that they are just a solenoid. But ebc JUST control boost. They dont have all the facts to react to what the boost should really be for maxiumum efficence as they ain't part of the engine control system.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

so ur both sort of agreeing then just not on what to use

GARETH T

Thinking about it Steve I think you miss understood the question, air injectors or boost controller? If we are comparing solenoids I would of said the front thrusters from the shuttle program as there's are the fastest most accurate solenoids made!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

i would rather have the benifit of a ecu controlled system over a seperate contoler

DAN-Saff

Do air injectors have a "gain" function that helps spool up like an ebc?

ajamesc

How dose it not have all the facts if your ebc is linked to a good aftermarket ecu that can work with the ebc and can see coolant temp charge air temp throttle position rpm egt and any other sensor you may have wired in

GARETH T

Can you name a setup like this? I can't. Why not just have the ecu control it

ajamesc

Can I name one yeah as you say above an ebc system controlled by your ecu lol may be air injectors can do the same I don't know but seems silly to say a ebc system cannot have all the facts! I guess it just depends on what you or your tuner likes to work with or can get the best out of! M.a.d use ebc I'm sore he would use air injectors if he thought they were better each to there own!

GARETH T

Name one Then so i can look into it and show its bad points!

ajamesc

Yeah yeah I guess your just stuck in your ways! Mine runs ecu controlled electronic boost and I've been in plenty others that have to I think your talking shit lol

big_wig_074

so what is it called?

ajamesc

If I could be arsed to drive to work and look at the boost controller I'd tell him other than than it's controlled via my sm4 ecu

stevieturbo

So exactly how many parameters does the Ford ecu monitor and use to control boost ?

And as said earlier. EBC's are very easy, you just install them and they work. You dont need a laptop, you dont need to spend time fucking about, and are easily adjustable in-situ by the driver ( of course that isnt always a good thing )

Ecu controlled setups do offer more possibilities assuming the ecu is capable, there is no argument there. But there is also no argument about how easy and effective a good EBC is at controlling boost.

One of the best Ive used is the Eboost 2. It really does hold rock solid boost at all times, with no messing about. Ive used it from as low as 1 bar boost up to about 2.8 bar. And really cannot fault it at all.

And stating it needs to know water temp or other things to control boost. I disagree. If you need to implement safety shut downs or limits for these conditions, they can still be implemented regardless of how boost is controlled.

GARETH T

For a I haven't talked once about ford.
A question should be what do rally cars use and why. Thermal management

stevieturbo

Certainly any Ive seen dont use air injectors. Unless maybe some very old stuff.

The lastest use high pressure air to control the opening and closing of the wastegate via solenoids. I guess a little like the AMS-1000 etc although they use a CO2 cylinder for the pressure source.

And I say Ford as I assume the initial query is about a Ford car using the Weber ecu etc

GARETH T

Sorry I can see we have.both digressed from the question, and I know you totally understand the subject.
So what would you rather have, a stand along boost controller or air injectors which are typically controlled by the ecu.

GARETH T

I can see why you think I'm talking shit, as your confussed by my terminology.

It sounds to me that you havent got a edc but just an actuator (solenoid) controlled by the ecu which is my preferred method of boost control. Now this actuator can come on many form, and one being air injector type.

As long as this actuator is fast enough acting and controlled directly from the ecu I'm a happy man lol

ajamesc

Yes my boost is controlled via a soliniod controlled via my ecu

rog

iTrader: (2)

Completely lol'd at that!

stevieturbo

I would not use air injectors period. I dont see the point as they offer no benefit whatsoever over a solenoid which is a fraction of the price. And as already mentioned, as far as I understand, the fail mode of air injectors is maximum boost. Not minimum ? Certainly not an ideal situation there, although I'd assume other ecu safety features should shut down should this happen.

As to how that solenoid is controlled. That would depend on the application and of course the ecu being used.

There is no simple "this solution is the best for every application"

Some cars I would certainly go for an EBC. Others I would choose ecu controlled.

So I ask a genuine question. What benefit do expensive air injectors actually offer over a solenoid based setup ? Given a good 3 port solenoid costs about Ł40 or 4 port about Ł80-100
And a 4 port will be far better than air injectors ever will IMO.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Epic thread...straight line cars at there best.

stevieturbo

Boost control is a hell of a lot more important to cars around a track than in a straight line.

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

when we were buying the original air injectors from bosh the part number came up as Malborough McLaren formula 1 boost control 1975

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

imho absolutley none but they look cool

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Yes I know that but most on here are straight line cars..!..

Duel carriage way warriors.

Anyhow that's me off topic again...carry on as you must..

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

air injectors are inverse
alot of the solenoid valves aren't
the control valves used must be the correct load for the weber ecu

ajamesc

You really are against big power yb,s arent you Matt lol I'd love to see you meet rod or ade or any well built spec,ed and mapped cosworth on the road! Even on the roads where you live as you keep saying because un less you live down a farm track you simply wouldn't see which year they went into! My car has 500 bhp but had 350 for many years and I can not think of any point at all in which it was faster with 350! I no every one has there own opinion and all that but you really do need to go in a modern 600bhp yb lol

ajamesc

Stupid I phone lol

GARETH T

steve the benefit of air injectors are that they have great response time which is great for fine boost control, they are a bleed on type, so you dont have the actuator creeping, i know there is millions of control valves which will do a great job (even far better) but it is hard to find them in the correct impedance for the cossie management, I personallyfeel that they work very well for the job in hand!

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Dream on there's plenty of other people that have been down the roads I drive and yes the are farm road... I'm not against big power YB's I just don't need one for where I drive... You stick to straight lines mate.. Because I'd love to see you use all you power on proper roads..!... I drive my roads in a 400bhp focus and I was a lot quicker with less power...on duel carriage ways I bet yours is awesome mate and rods but where I drive...you just can't use it.

OrionRST200bhp

iTrader: (1)

same as me, avcr all the way. a few years old now but still considered one of the best boost controllers out there. you'll find alot of high powered jap boys use them aswell.

stevieturbo

So it's actually a limitation of the Cossie ecu that it cannot control a normal solenoid or valve ? which is why they are favoured ?

Any solenoid can be told not to apply any air to the open port to try and prevent creep though. Or better still, use a 4 port solenoid on a suitable actuator and blow the w/g shut until such time as it needs to be opened, which is even more effective at reducing creep.

I'm certainly not saying they do a bad job, or arent effective. They just dont do anything better than a cheap solenoid.
If the ecu requires their usage due to it's internal drivers, that's a different matter though.

GARETH T

this is why the world rally cars use two sets of solenoids.

im not against the actuators (be it cheap solenoids or over priced air injectors), i just heavily dislike boost controllers. just dont see there function over a properly calibrated ecu output