PileOfRust

+1

Modern technology

Alps Pacino

I was meaning more shonky stage 3 saph ou there with standard brakes and a set of koni shockers and springs tbh.

Try it like for like and stick a super charger kit, big brakes, and sorted suspension on the e46 which would probabaly be a cheaper car and i think the outcome would be very close.

Value for money the e46 is far better and after owning an escort cossie i think its definatly the worst value performance car i have ever owned by a long way

Turbosimpsons

iTrader: (3)

the works bmw's could not beat a 500hp cossie in 1987. so i'm sure a standard bm wouldn't stand a chance in 2012

TIFF

I would say a good 330bhp RWD Cosworth would beat my M3........

I know my old 3DR was ALOT faster than my M3 and that was about 380BHP.......

BUT, M3's are heavy cars.... and ALOT nicer to drive...

booner999

I know, that cossie bug. I had two M3's and now on my second Cosworth. I can see me keeping this Cossie, putting it away and using for track in a few years and just having a nice well speced M3 for the road stuff.

M3 is a great car, but just wanted something a little more outragous and the Escort filled that for me (and the fact I cannot afford a 964 911 Turbo )

Nick.W

iTrader: (1)

I bet you still sold your escos for the same as what you bought it for if not more though. E46 M3 prices are only going one way and that's down!

I do love M3's though and will have one at some point.

Mike1

I was just thinking the same - what were they? .....about 300bhp in the lighter E30 shell?
Didn't they end up banning the Sierras/Skylines etc as they were winning too much?

gjh

Oh I see, then in that case I'd imagine you're right

CrOwSoN15

I thought I was the only one that noticed that

booner999

To answer your question. No. 345 BHP v 500 BHP 4x4 with more torque than you could ever need.

He is talking out of his arse there.

But, credit where credit is due, the E36 M3 Evo and E46 M3 are capable cars.
I had an Evo and around town your not going to get away from the hot hatches due to restrictions in 1st and possible 2nd plus traction. But get either out on the open road and set it loose in 3rd and they really do wake up.

Any 4x4 Cosworth will suffer from a good amount of transmition loss so matching the power in a Cossie 4x4 is not going to mean your going to beat the M3. They are heavy but then the Cossie 4x4 is not exactly been on a diet and with the loss in transmission he would keep you away up to 100 MPH and then motor on and leave you there. I have a Escort and come 100 MPH they really do hit a brick wall (Aerodynamics for top speed runs is pants) where as the M3's are more sleak.

I would say a very good stage 3 Cossie will just about keep with a E46 upto a certain point.

Some info that guys might like to know about on this site who say they have raced them and they are "dog shit cars" etc. A M3 is like a Cossie, you have good and bad ones, you have some that have drivers who can drive, and some who have no idea. Some E46 M3's can be as little as 300 BHP if unwell or getting a good amount of miles under their belts. Or maybe the driver is sat watching you give your car everything it has got? who knows.

I would compare the RWD Cosworths to the M3 and the Cossie should beat it hands down with a stage 3 spec, alot less weight and loads more torque.

I am a strong follower of both these cars and currently own the Cosworth, that saying it was a very hard decision to sell my M3. As has been said, the Cosworth does not really loose money at the moment where as the M3 is dropping. If you want one, get aE36 M3 Evo Coupe, just as quick day to day as the E46, feels more raw than the E46 and is cheap to buy, they will also be going up in value soon for decent examples.

For me the biggest give away is modified Cosworth v standard M3. I know this tool you spoke to has no idea so we can excuse him but rule of thumb is standard v standard. In this case its a 20 year old car verse a 12 year old car. So not fair to compare.

Hope that helps

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Come on, comparing the two cars is almost impossible, totally different ends of the scale, what was a 46 M3 brand new, 40-50k?

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Dreamers.

wattie

Me and my mate spent all night smoking my mate in his m3 , I had my stage 3 3door and my other mate had a 200sx that had 300 at the wheels and the m3 couldn't touch us on the straights, good handling car and one I'd love to own in the future it's just not the last word in straight line performance but for what it lacks in speed it makes up for in bucket loads in the looks/handling/ braking comfort and noise!!

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Always thought the 46 brakes were pretty poor to be honest, definatly need upgrading to APs.

Great cars, but not as fast as people think they are, NA engines always feel flat after owning a good turbo engine.

RS Grant

iTrader: (1)

Here are my thoughts on an E46 M3...

https://passionford.com/forum/genera...-my-views.html

As I say in the link, I used to be one of the guys who thought they were shite and slow... but after actually driving one for a decent length of time, I've totally changed my opinion of them.


Cheers,
Grant

fuzzy

it seems pretty simple to me. a simple whats faster here and now question.a 500bhp cossie or an e46 m3.
original cost wasnt brought into it.

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Well the simple answer is the 500Bhp cossie, but everyone else is comparing every other feature.

DAN P

iTrader: (1)

Because there old wank far to many blinkered cossie owners on here

botters

iTrader: (2)

driven all the variations of m3 from e30 upwards and loved the way they drove and how you have to make them scream through the gears, but not one of them blew me away with the performance in my opinion they are quick but not rapid cars and i for one did not notice them coming alive over 100mph as someone has suggested above

mr west

iTrader: (1)

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

M3's are slow. I reckon a 270 BHP cos would deal with nevermind a 500 brake one

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Still does not explain why the cossie would have to brake an the M3 wouldn't? Don't M3s need to slow down?

booner999

lol you know better

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

Cossiemainful

iTrader: (1)

The reliability wasn't the question but here we go.

Sorry, but the first M3 engines til 2003 were pure failure if you are looking a bit around on forums. So your view isn't that right. Even the first Cossie YB with 204 were more bullet proof as the first M3 engines. And the 220 YB is one of the best engine, raliable as fuck.

After 2003 BMW made stronger engines. So many M3 owners have the 3rd or 4th engine in after only 30 000 - 40 000 miles. And those fucking engines were all stock. And never mind if you drive it correctly, they had probs with the bearing shells.

Symptoms before blowing up:
power loss, loud knocking and then the rocker arms land into the oil sump.

A Cossie would do million miles without probs, even if its tuned.

So, a M3 isn't automatically more reliable than a Ford. That's bullshit.
All marques have their weak points. Too much people are prejudiced about the marque (never mind if in a positive or negative way), without driving it and so they can't realise how unreliable a Beemer can be.

It is like: I've heard Fords are bad, but never driven one. Then this person drives a ford and says, wow, good cars, never expected this by hearsay.

I've heard Beemers are great but never driven one. Then this person drives a Beemer and says, what a shit car. Only for example.

The image says nothing about the quality of a product only about how much failures they can do without worry to losing the good image.

James B

Think he meant break...

turbomook

iTrader: (4)

What does an M3 do a 1/4 mile time in?

My Escos is around 500bhp and did a 11.6 1/4 mile @ 121 MPH.

Mike1

So true, be the reverse on a BM forum

pee vee

Still bitter about never getting your cossie to work then dan lol

booner999

Mike1, on m3cutters they love cosworths, loads of threads on there showing respect to the cosworth badge.

lmosleycosworth chevette

Can't See a good 500 bhp cossie getting beat by a 320ish BMW m3 on a track. Too much power advantage for BM to pass. 500bhp BM v 500cossie may be a different

Mike1

Perhaps there's more Cosworth owners on there than there is here now

Just shows what a performance benchmark it was in its day I guess that people still reference it rather than an old 944t or 911

ajamesc

what a total load of bollocks lol cosworths are still very competative as fast road cars! id like to see you buy a car faster than the likes of mad ades or rods! the only people who see fast road cosworths as un reliable bad handing and not that fast are clearly people who have not been in fast well built ones!

James B

You must be as thick as two planks... He means break.. As in fail, stop working, blown up..... It's a home made Ford, and Cosworth. Just asking for it to BREAK DOWN!!!

plynchy

My old Mk 1 FRS sat with an E46 M3 from 40 to over 140, that was just after the clever bastard in the passenger seat waved bye-bye as we pulled away. The look on his face and the double take a few minutes later as I was still sat alongside had me pissing myself laughing

That was running 274 bhp. Power/weight not much in it at all.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

No ones questioning the the good car that it is, the title of this thread is the question.

Martin

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Talk about irony... it's a joke, as the person in question said it will "brake" down

And no not really, the engine was designed and make by Cosworth, in the same way BMW's M division made the S54 engine, so it's exactly the same principle!

Martin

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Ah sorry, I just read what he wrote.
Perhaps using the correct word might help people understand what he meant, but even then he's wrong

Anyway, I'm off to potato pistonheads. ( I was going to put read, but let's just use random words instead , seems to be the in thing on here!)

botters

iTrader: (2)

fpmsl

Cosworth Lad

m3s overated shit tbh they sound like a cat getting boned lol I had a go with one at stage3 it was like cat and mouse tbf.