stevieturbo

Thats my point though....you may think you're legal. But in construction and use somewhere....chances are it is not. And they're slowly dragging them out and using them against us.
I'm pretty sure there is a clause somewhere stating that any deviation from the manufacturers standard or to increase noise is illegal.
So pretty much ANY aftermarket exhaust is illegal, but if they stuck with that, I would also have to say many cheap replacement exhausts would also be illegal then, as they often deviate in design than the original manufacturer.


What heads, cams, intake, exhaust ? At what distance, what distance, what angle from exhaust, what environment to test in ?

There is no simple answer to your question as there are so many variables that will affect it. And as Ive said, until there are rock solid guidelines for testing, along with proper equipment and competent people to carry out the test, cops quoting numbers like the start of this thread is just bullshit.

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

So is there an actual law stating that a car cannot be over a certain dB reading?
Im thinking of getting a small silencer put in to see how much it quietens it down...

Twins

iTrader: (18)

where was you stopped mate

stevieturbo

Ive never had anyone in the police be able to provide me with evidence that there is such a law.

But they dont need it....their calibrated ears and "excessive noise" can be sufficient.

Fruit'n'nut

I'd hazard a guess that if there's a regular meet, then regular complaints are probably received concerning the attendees, resulting in properly-equipped and trained officers attending near the area at the time meets are held ..

Fruit'n'nut

It's not easy reading, but it's here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...chapter/K/made

stevieturbo

And based on that, I say everyones car is quieter than the db readings specified if they measure from far enough away.

Nowhere do they state how these numbers are arrived at, or state a test procedure. So the numbers are meaningless if they try and quote them against anyone. There is some sort of reference to Annex blabla, but fuck knows where to get the actual information.
The only issue to which there is little argument, is the one about not altering to make more noise.

Although in most cases we do not alter the factory exhaust. We remove and replace....same thing ? Different ?

And it does also seem to state that any of those magical db figures they conjured up would only apply to vehicles from October 1983 onwards.

Trying to read through all that nonsense legislation would give you a headache !

Fruit'n'nut

It's the top result on Google when you search for the relevant EEC directives; 77/212 EEC which amended 70/157 EEC, which in turn references UN/ECE Regulation 51, relating to (amongst other things) testing for manufacturer's type approval. (I've read through them this evening.) Yes, it does result in a headache!

I'll qualify my remarks by saying I'm not a traffic cop and so not trained in "roadside" testing, but AFAIK the "approved testing method" is to follow the manufacturer's instructions for any particular testing device - so there is no single prescribed method to be quoted.

While reading around the subject, I found this link which might be interesting to you and others http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publication...isetesting.pdf It's dated September 2010.

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

This thread is proof that many modified cars would be better off being tested under the IVA scheme as a Radically Altered Vehicle.

Noise tests for IVA are 99db at 3/4 max power.

plenty of other things it would benefit modified car users:

airbag new rules
bucket seats
exhausts
emissions
brakes
suspension

etc etc etc

not forgetting the vast majority of the OEM car features meet and exceed the IVA requirements.

anything with any chassis mods almost certainly should be IVA tested and anything else with a lot of mods should come under it too really.

eg most of the cossie conversions on this site and out there generally should be IVA'd if built in recent years.

The biggest advantage by far of IVA testing is that the rules are clear in black and white. No overzealous copper can successfully do you for an exhaust if it meets the IVA rules.

Also by being IVA'd you get around a lot of the vague rules about parts differing from manufacturer spec as the original OEM spec becomes irrelevant as its superceeded by the IVA test pass.


The way things are going, most moderately modified cars will be forced to end up having IVA's anyway as they bring more regulations in to MoT and give the MoT testers a easy way of reporting such cars.

Dlatch!

no fine no crime..........

Rollinz

If i ever get pulled with my car for noise im just going to spout some bollox like
Its under 99db and was tested by osa and meets an IVA standard....


If it confuses them and they walk away bonus... If they dont and getthe rule book out then i wont sign a ticket untill i know the full legislation for this "rule"

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Twins - I was stopped at a meet in Ipswich, i only went coz my bro kept on at me...
I think trying to quieten it down is the best idea, i don't fancy getting stopped again especially since the car is "flagged" on the ANPR database for having a noisy exhaust, it also means i can use it early in the morning without worrying about the neighbours!

stevieturbo

Interesting reading.

So at present they are using the same basic rules as the MSA as far as testing goes, or close to it.
ie 0.5m from tailpipe, level height and 45deg. Test rpm is pretty much 3750rpm
And the report deems that at present 90dB can be considered the upper limit for road vehicles. Although in their testing it is clear that a handful of factory standard vehicles have exceeded that. Most are lower though.

But it does seem to suggest that whilst cops are doing tests, they still arent usable as evidence for a prosecution, only as a guide to noise. It still falls to the cops discretion as to excessive noise. Although obviously having a high number would help them.

Last time this came up though, and cops were stopping "noisy" cars here too. Straight from the traffic cops themselves, they have no authorised equipment and have never been trained..obviously because there is no authorised equipment lol
Most of the areas where cops were targeting young motorists were normal local cops alleging complaints had been made. Unlikely as the tests were carried out in town centres nowhere near any residential.

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

DAN-Saff

But what are they comparing it to? On the logbook there isn't a db level so what are you exceeding.

stevieturbo

Read the post above. That report came to a generic upper limit of 90dB

But you are correct, many older vehicles will have no specific data available for reference.

It sounds like at the minute they are just using this for easy fines.....mmm bit like most motoring offences really.

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

So is there anyway i can challange this in court?

Brendan

iTrader: (1)

this really has got me! I can't understand why! Anyone go an explanation for this? As I have got big disks cross drilled and grooved in my toy! - I call it a safety feature!

stevieturbo

You can challenge anything in court , all you need is £££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Motoring "offences" arent designed to be easy to challenge, or designed for legitimate justice.

Only the rich can usually afford a defense

gjh

This is why turbocharged cars need anti lag, you get the copper to put his little meter 0.5m away from your exhaust, as he does this, switch the als on and watch the fucker burn!

stevieturbo

would be funny to see lol.

DAN-Saff

Why challenge it Just get a new exhaust keep the receipt in the car if you get another tug show them and go from there IMO then at least you have tried to comply with a nice new 4"pipe

Brendan

iTrader: (1)

....well your Lordship I was only doing what the copper asked half throttle and back off.......

luke19790_3

i was thinking about using something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXHAUST-SO...item4d018f1e39

think a lot of new cars/bikes use the same setup to lower noise.

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

mine with a RB T38 at 4750RPM was 104DB

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Ive been looking at this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-...item3cbb571b9a

Twins

iTrader: (18)

funny enough was talking to a couple of guys from suffolk a few weeks back, and they was saying how bad car stuff is up there, with the the suffolk old bill stopping you a lot and going over your car, till the mods are took off ,seems like they have no other crime going on to busy themselves with

PhoneShopRS

what about the harley davidson bikes they make alot of noise? they should get stoped as well...i guess

gjh

Yes, a hell of a lot of standard cars and bikes could be stopped, I think even standard evos would be too loud.

scholes

iTrader: (1)

Don't think I'll venture onto the road then 102db at tickover !!!!!

porterste

Cant understand why that is too loud. I have an Escort cosworth rally car and it is noise checked at every event and is usually 98db. The limit for a rally car is 100db and bear in mind that we use road sections and the car has to be road legal so cant see why your car is to loud.

gjh

What do you have to do that?

lordjc

Surely it was a VRDS? which can just be stamped by your local garage?

scholes

iTrader: (1)

Gartrac g3 with yb twin side exit exhaust ! Race car so noise not that much of a problem surprisingly doesn't sound load tho,deep sounding exhausts sound loud but don't read very high on a meter and vice versa noise meters arnt just a matter of what it sounds like

gjh

Nice

Psycho Warren

iTrader: (5)

I think the sensible thing is shut your gob at the road side and challenge later. Argue at the road side and even if youre right, the cunt will just section 59 you instead.

This is why i like the idea of IVA. The standards are absolute for the date the test was taken. No matter what some jumped up traffic womble/VOSA twat says, they cant override the IVA legislation. You just plead not guilty and do your own case using IVA regulations as your defence. CPS would be silly to continue, and if they did, a magistrate is unlikely to over-rule IVA legislation.

im sure they have plenty of other offences to be dealing with.

its just "efficient" "money saving" policing by the traffic department.

Think about it, go after the real motoring criminals, ie the cunts with no license, no insurance, stolen cars etc and its quite expensive.

Assuming they stop (lets not get into horrendous costs of police chase with helicopter etc), the recovery and storage costs for a wreck until its scrapped are a fair whack. Then admin costs processing the case, sending to CPS. Then if it gets to court, court costs, administration costs etc etc etc.

however giving a modified car a defect rectification notice is dirt cheap. as is issuing FPN's for various minor offences.

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

It's very true about the low crime in suffolk, maybe thats why they pick on the motoring enthusiasts instead!?
I pushed things as far as i dare at the side of the road, and got a £30 fine and 14days to take the exhaust off. For the sake of £30 i can't be bothered to challenge it, but the "marker" on my car for being too loud annoys me!
Bloody annoyance!

jimhc

iTrader: (1)

I bought my cossie off a traffic cop it has a 3"mongoose with only 1 box and its pretty loud. Seems like 1rule for them as i heard a supra driver being told he cant drive it and needed to get a recovery truck to take it home. And that was 98dbs. So i dip the clutch when i see them.

stevieturbo

That is beyond ridiculous if it's true.

Fruit'n'nut

Historically there a fewer dedicated traffic/roads policing officers now than in the last two-three decades. (MCN - Motorcycle News - made an FoI request to each HO force some years ago.)

As you've found it's much cheaper and easier just to comply rather than to try to find an out at court. FWIW, I think you'd have probably been on a hiding to nothing anyway, but that's just my personal opinion.

I don't go to car "meets" by I occasionally ride my motorbike on popular roads which are heavily policed at times. As well as not annoying local residents, it means that if I keep my exhaust legal (along with number plate size, font etc) then it's one less thing to be reported/fined for if I get stopped for a roadside check or because of the manner of my riding.