Wim,
No probs, a better intercooler would keep more of the power for more of the time, but as you're not doing track days or holding it flat out for long periods, then the fact that the intercooler sits on top of the radiator won't be so much of an issue. Just appreciate that in any static scenario you'll run into heat soak issues .

 

oil and water temperatures for starters, localised hot spots etc

why is a bonnet even open? hardly representative of flat out 'on road' conditions is it?

25kW is 33bhp - that's as much airflow as a 250cc motorbike can push out of the way at full speed

 

not unbeatable but there is a lot of cars trying to beat it
yes i did map that car

i think it will be beat this year
by a car i am also mapping

 

The bonnet was left open as they wanted to check for any issues and listen for det as it was running.

I didn't say it was perfect, but given that as you say most are in single figures, it's just the best I've seen

 

Thats a really interesting way to look at it, given that at full chat pretty much all your engine is achieving is moving air out of the way (sure there are losses like friction to road etc, but they are tiny by comparison) it does put into perspective just how powerful a fan you would need to have to replicate those conditions.

Although obviously if your 330bhp saph is only having 10% of that air pushed through the rad and cooler then maybe a well ducted 33bhp fan is upto the job?

As obviously the vast majority of the air that is pushed through by the car doesnt go through the rad etc.

 

Sounds ideal then, as those 160mph ferries are awesome

 

the rad fan will help with water cooling anyways and if still running modine with aftermarket cooler aswell it will help with oil too, if the water and oil gets a little bit hotter its hardly going to affect the tune like 60d acts are is it.

i dont get the issue with the bonnet open it makes fuck all difference at all ! think about this then, check a car at brunters say to 200 mph and all is fine with a strong tail wind, then get on the autobahn 200 mph headwind uphill gradient the conditions have changed, a dyno also applies alot of braking force to the hub / tyre to put it under load maybe even more load than it will see in that gear on the road, come to think of it my supra took longer to hit the limiter in 5th on the dyno than it takes on the road suggesting it was under more load than in real world conditions.

 

You know all I was trying to relate in simple terms how powerful it was compared to other fans . I just haven't experienced anything as powerful as these before or since.

As you can see by the ducting, and with the car positioned so that it is almost touching this, it is well ducted into the key area.

APT's one is the next best I have seen, and their monster fan is very well ducted and with a reducer it speeds up flow as well . I'm sure Gary will post up pictures .

 

It makes a MASSIVE difference on some cars mate... in fact, there are plenty of cars out there that would likely blow up if run hard with the bonnet open. Take care out there...

 

Will it?

TBH if fed by a decent proper ducted fan through the front I would think the normal fan would hinder flow rather than help it if anything, probably better off removing it from the car, although not exactly practical to do every time a car goes on the rollers of course, lol



You could trail the break a bit at brunters to simulate extra load, but you wouldnt hit 200 anymore, lol

TBH though I doubt many cars that do 200 at brunters ever intend to do it for 50 miles of autobahn, well not in the context of cossies anyway!

 

Indeed, with you around its easier fishing from a keyboard than from the deck of a ferry thats for sure


The ducting is crucial, you dont need to cool the windscreen etc after all!

 

it does always baffle me why they run with the bonnet open. Since when were cars driven with their bonnet open, and since when was their cooling systems etc designed to run with the bonnet open.

The car should be tested in it's normal state.

And besides, if the fan system is adequate, no way should the bonnet be able to stay open on it's own. It would get blown all over the place and off it's normal hook thing.

 

chip, you could say the same thing for a high speed run on the road the fan is just a hinderence, you know how i ment it that if the fan isnt adequate the rad fan will cut in if water temps get high.

 

i dont see how stu it will just let the air into the bay that would of deflected of the bonnet, and thats all it would do on my supra there is hardly any front lip to the bonnet at all.

 

radiator fans are usually small and useless. At anything above 25-30mph they just pose a restriction to airflow.

 

Indeed, they ARE a restriction on the road at high speed, but thats not a problem because there is SO much airflow at high speeds.
However on the rollers there isnt.

Them cutting in or not will be of no use under load.

 

absolutely

i would say that the AVA setup that Mike has posted is probably adequate for power runs. is it adequate for flat out mapping? possibly not. and certainly not representative if the bonnet is open.

 

That comment made me lol, yeah true chipper, the fans are just about adequate for idling in traffic not a engine at full load

 

Was orginally on a Dyno but checked on a RR at a Volvo shootout . We had no probs with fans but strapping was a bit of a problem they have since got a set of high power straps so it would make more Power with those fitted. 809bhp to prove despite a whole thread of its hard it aint if car is properly sorted.

 

Why would a car blow up if the bonnet is open?

 

Think about where a Scooby's intercooler is .

 

I was there that day, it was awesome to watch!

 

On "your" car maybe, maybe not as I havent seen it, but on many cars the engine only works properly with the bonnet down, and some are designed in such a way as the frontal area is ducted to create a positive pressure in the airbox (just as pretty much all motorcycles have done for 20+ years)

Even worse, some cars intercoolers dont work at all with the bonnet open, Impreza's and Pulsars are two great examples of this.

High engine load requires high cooling not only of the inlet, but also the sump, gearbox, differentials and ancillaries like ignition amplifiers etc. many cars even have fans to cool ECU's nowadays so they dont get too hot in traffic. Then we have the often forgotten exhaust primaries. What do you think your 1000deg C exhaust manifold is exhausting its heat to if its not atmosphere? Yep... your cylinder head, turbocharger core and exhaust valves... these items are all designed with huge amounts of air cooling to ensure longevity, which is why you should only wrap them when the temps your going to be seeing are a real danger to adjacent components unless your confident the items it is bolted to can take the extra thermal capacity.

Finally, at high road speeds your turbos inlet ratio also changes slighty as you hit positive pressure which affects the compressor map somewhat.

The list is endless really... have you ever felt the temperature of your tyres after a good few dyno runs? LOL

 

Another reason not to open the bonnet is it can also give you a false positive aswell.
What i mean is with the bonnet shut you could have airflow problems that you dont have with the bonnet up.
A friend had this on his scooby.
With the bonnet up his engine was much better than bonnet down, (i assume it had more access to air) it actually made 70bhp more with the bonnet up as the air filter had more air and with it down must have been blocked in some way. (1 run bonnet down then opened bonnet to do next run, nothing else touched and literally 2 mins after 1st run)
( he didnt have an airbox, top mount.....)





And can i say, GREAT THREAD, with karl, stu and mark posting, and good technical stuff too, not seen that for a while!
Keep it up

 

http://www.eurosportscompact.co.uk/e....php?escID=114

terminal speed is wrong, it did 150mph

 

Thats a full drag set up
not road legal
but very good

 

indeed, good thread with great technical input from some top tuners

 

I agree on all counts...but he did of course use a Rototest hub dyno...so his tyres were nice and cold lol

 

When I was in Denmark in 2008, there was a MK2 Escort with a turbocharged pinto running mid 9's
Bloody impressive !

 

Dont forget the very useful inputs of Turbosystems and Mike Rainbird too!

I will confront the dyno operator with all this info and hopefully will get another session on good conditions.

Thanks all!

 

i'm sure tony will appreciate you not classifying him as a top tuner

 

He's ok i suppose lol

Steve

 

Unless he changes his cooling fan for a better one i doubt it will be much better

Also you will benefit so much from fitting a RS500 size intercooler as you have been told so many times

Steve

 

theres a few in Malta running 9s and 8s Stevie as you well know

 

The Maltese are more dedicated drag cars though. I'm sure when I was there, there was a Mk1 running 9's with a 1400cc pinto !! just a lot of nitrous.

Must get back over some day.

 

yes its still there turbo and nos ,it ran 9.9 in march .will see what it does this weekend

 

Tell him i want to come along if done properly and somewere in July/August when my car is ready

 

I just ment to say that I am very glad with everyone who has contributed to this post for helping me especially the guys like him. Sorry if I have wrote it down maybe the wrong way.

 

I certainly will keep this all in mind Steve. Thanks for your advice!

 

I have been to the dyno shop and explained all. They understand what has gone wrong with these act that has caused the ecu to act in the way it did.

I get a re-run with decent cooling!