AGAR-COSWORTH

I'll be very interested to see this come together. The only remaining DJR cars I know of are Andy Lloyd's one, the one Dick has in a museum in Oz, and of course this one. Do you know where the other 3 are?

I hope the engine in this latest find will be on par with the original, ie 2 bar of boost = 680bhp

Edited to add: I bet the owner of this latest find is sitting on quite a potential profit, considering what Martin Johnson bought his old Eggenberger car for, and what they're now worth.

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

where did you hear that? sounds like UTTER bullshit!



AWESOME news on Car!!!!!!!!!!!!! so exciting. Cant wait to see pics and follow the rebuild!

Enjoy

mgtkr1

awesome, dick was a proper racing driver, a mans man and a hero. to find his car must be an honour. the fact he shunned the v8's in favour of staying with fords make djr a cool customer in my book. the sierra was a monster, 600hp ish if im not wrong in the v early 90's!! one of the fastest and most powerful yb engines of the era, developed by djr.

AGAR-COSWORTH

Why do you say that? What's not to believe about it having 680bhp? Wind your neck in.....

mk1trb

the man himself @ 4:30


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXHpEK6Ym0I

BRIGSPORT

iTrader: (2)

Touche!

It's Czech Mate

Clocked at 195mph+ down conrod suggests close to that sort of power

ajamesc

i thought the highest power any of the old race car cosworths had was 560-580 max

dovboy

Dick really knows his stuff but IMO tends to add vat to all figures!

Probably 600bhp,more than 2 bar and closer to 185-190 down conrod.

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Oh God, don't say that, Rod will be along soon telling you how wrong you are

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Biggest Lee has had for a while I should think


Must admit though, I thought the same as Lee when I saw the 680bhp claim, I thought they were more like 580 or so TBH, but Im guessing the guy who built then would know best, lol

steveboyslim

Australian horespower must be measured the same way as American/Swedish/Norwegian horespower, which must be different from how it is measured in the UK.
Mountune did some engines for DJR and Trackstar and they did not have that sort of power even in qualifying.

Steve

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

They did 300kmph down rev it which is 186mph they were no where near 680bhp nearer 540 bhp, lee is correct IMO

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

Its come to light in recent years that many of the top teams both in the UK and Australia were using a tampered with version of the t4. Basically the bodies were sectioned in two, the flow paths radically modified and then welded back together so that they still looked stock.

So comparing a normal RS500 spec t4 to some of those used on the race cars is not comparing apples for apples with regards ultimate performance.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

Ive heard the same Paul that certain Rouse cars you a t4 but modded it to death

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

Here is what Mike Smith said about it last year

"Where we simply couldn't live with Andy R was on the power circuits like Silverstone - he was running way more power than us or any of his customers. In July 89 we found out why, when a crate of Garrett turbos destined for AR were delivered by mistake to us. We saw that they all had identical welded-up slots in the worm. They had been cut into, scooped out and then welded-up. We sent them back - but informed the scrutineers. Sure enough, Andy's car got sealed at Silverstone GP and by Brands Hatch 2 weeks later he had lost his points. But he appealed and won - because he claimed that the FIA Yearbook rules in French permitted repairs (whereas the English didn't). Clever bugger. He was ruled correct by the FIA. There was no way that these slots were repairs - and I'm afraid that's when I realised what we were up against".

and an ex race mechanic on the same forum claimed similar about DJR when they came to Silverstone for the TT. This is what he said

"Going slightly OT here, I was told by someone who worked for DJR at the time, the REAL reason for their DNF during the 1988 Silverstone TT. Although DJR claimed "vapour lock" after the first pitstop as the reason for withdrawal, there was actually nothing wrong with their car. They wanted to go out and kick everyones butts (which they were) but were worried about getting scrutineered so withdrew the car (citing the "vapour lock" reason) My friend who told me this said it was his job to send the turbo exhaust housings away to be laser cut in two, he would then port the hell out of them, and they would be then welded back up. Apparently this was good for a lot more power (hence the reason the cars had more straight line grunt at that event than the other RS500's) I believe this "tweak" also caught on in the UK amongst the cheaters. I have watched the DVD of the Silverstone TT race, and this story does fit. The car appeared to be going perfectly normally, up to the time of its withdrawal. There were no external signs of any problems, such as coolant loss, engine smoke etc. As they say, it is only cheating if you get caught!"

mk1trb

the skyline team were claiming 600bhp so if that was true then the sierra would need 600+ to pull past them on the straights as waight wasnt much different and didnt Dave Brodie claim a 600bhp motor aswell?? though he got penalised for illegal fuel which gave him extra umph

The advantage trackstar had over AR was their yokahama tyres, they just didnt wear out like AR's dunlops, in 1990 trackstar were proper on it. shame they lost there sponsers, prob cause mike couldnt keep his sieera on the track without bending something lol

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Correct, but compressor wheel or exhaust wheel was not changed, that would have helped with the back pressure, possibly allowing it to hold more boost at high rpm as e standard exhaust housing does get a good amount of back pressure

Mr RS500

iTrader: (6)

Correct

I know exactly what was done , and who did it

And it came from the man himself , lol

The Youth.

iTrader: (1)

Regarding the turbo issue, there is a you tube clip of andy rouse up against steve soper at brands hatch and murrey walker in commentry says "andy is using a new development turbo with increased boost!" bet that was when they fitted the dodgy one!

steve

3FRD

iTrader: (2)

I LOL'd at this big time!!

Shot down

Interesting thread, will be good to see it back to original

What would a car like this be worth finished?

AGAR-COSWORTH

Tisk tisk, Porkie really should have done his homework before replying . Where is he now anyway? I think he owes me an apology

I've seen it reported from a good Aus source that the engines were known to develop 700bhp, but were de-tuned to 680bhp for qualifying spec, and even more so for race spec (especially for bathurst where reliability was a big issue). But then again that must be utter bullshit too....

J1mbo

iTrader: (1)

Agar, there is no chance in them being anywhere near that power so your sources are crazy infact I had a good In depth chat with nick waples who did some heads for dick Johnson, and iirc he has the exact figures the engine produced and I can garuntee you it started wi a 5, so where e 6s and 7s are coming from I've no idea.

You know they ran a 0611 headgasket and standard head bolts too?

It's Czech Mate

I know DJ was clocked at 307kph which is 190mph thereabouts, I'm sure Rod will know exactly how much power that needs if the gearing is known

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Probably a 'measly' 520 bhp? Maybe 540?

I love the red livery DJR sierras. My favourites by a mile.

Awesome thread!

AGAR-COSWORTH

Hmm, what Nick said could well be true for some of DJ's earlier engines. However, by 1993 when DJR was still campaigning his Seirra, the ATCC regulations had been changed and alowed for different engine specs to be run. This included a much higher rev limit than any of the Rouse and Eggenberger cars had even seen. The power figures of 600bhp - 700bhp I have seen were reported from someone within the DJR team at the time too

Plus at the time when he was competoing, it's pretty obvious why DJ talked down his bhp figures.

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

Bollocks to that. It's all interesting stuff!

racer

Hi AGAR and all,

the ATCC regulations had been changed for 1993 but it was the the first year of the V8's, they came to be known as the V8 Supercar's, DJR had a pair of Ford EB Falcon's that year.


Andy

massivewangers

iTrader: (1)

Facts are interesting....

"He says...." vs. "But he says..." is less interesting

vroooom ptssssh

90bhp + 2bar of boost would only be 270.....


leads me to think they made more than 90 N/A and less with 2 bar, quickest 2 bar boost cossie i've SAW was euans, which was 550@8200rpm-ish which still wasn't the best it could/should be.

OR they were running over 2 bar, but even then that's still only 360...


a 2.0 16v at 6500 rpm max will make 150ish bhp - 2bar of boost and thats a 450bhp engine

a 2.0 16v Vtec at 8500 will make 200ish bhp - 2 bar onto that would be 594bhp.


I'd go with 600bhp on 2 bar, but I don't doubt for a minute in qualifying they were running more than 2 bar, OR they had an overboost switch for short bursts of extra boost not forgetting they would have a high octane fuel so it's not unachievable to run more than 2 bar. I don't know what they actually revved too but I dont think it'd be much hgher than 8500rpm unless they changed the rod/stroke ratio to work for them.

v man

karl norris uses standard head bolts in his 600 plus bhp 3 dr

bigluke200

iTrader: (3)

+1 Would LOVE this

RONNIE AMIS

iTrader: (17)

That is a good idea by jonnybravo

mk1trb

+1 would be a interesting read

ozmk1cos

So whats peoples stories and facts on supposed power and what they actually did to achieve it?

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

T4 with 32psi

SteRB5138

There is a good part where Tim Harvey talks about his touring car days in this DVD

http://www.dukevideo.com/Cars/DVD/Ma...ocket-DVD.aspx

I think he said Andy Rouse & Steve Soper were running around 540Bhp back in 1988/89

rog

iTrader: (2)

There was a thread about this this other day, not sure what it was called, it might've been under the DJR sierra one
Anyway, all I remember reading was a modified turbo and LOTS of boost, not sure on the internals though, if it was standard rs500 spec or what, I havent a clue.

cossiestu

The good old days of PROPER Touring cars!! Lol

ozmk1cos

Granted there is a DJR thread, but this is a spin off of all the ideas and specs.