The Cosworth Sierra touring car engines?
27-01-2012, 10:01 AM
#122
. Race conditions put a huge strain on things compared to poodling around on the road with the occasional brief squirt. When I was only on greens, and Grp A gasket, this would need replacing every 6-12,000 miles (depending on how many track days I did).Also don't forget your turbo has been heavily modified to achieve those figures (and possibly even has different compressor / turbine wheels - you haven't said
?), which would have been easily spotted in scrutineering and it only does 562bhp at 2.1 bar. A normal T4 only flows 48lb of air at 2.2 bar, which is all you need to know to work out the most power the engine could produce at that boost. Reducing it to 2.0 bar is only going to reduce the amount of air it moves, which will reduce the power.Basically, if it did have 600+bhp, then it wasn't achieved from an untouched "T4".....
27-01-2012, 10:09 AM
#123
PassionFord Post Troll
Mike am not saying it would make the power, understand what your saying but no way is the t4 a not capable
Mine is standard LOL.....honest....
pmsl at grp a lasting 12k....it has to last 30 minutes.....not going to the moon and back - not sure the head bolts are the issue and did the touring cars run a standard head gasket ? (this grp a shite is a load of bollocks)
Mine is standard LOL.....honest....
pmsl at grp a lasting 12k....it has to last 30 minutes.....not going to the moon and back
- not sure the head bolts are the issue and did the touring cars run a standard head gasket ? (this grp a shite is a load of bollocks)
27-01-2012, 10:21 AM
#125
Sounds completely standard 
.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe that a 2.0 litre BTCC engine on a T4 running 6.7:1 to 7.2:1 compression can produce any number that starts with a 6 for anything more than a few seconds. Especially using the components that they were lumbered with due to the homologation rules (as good as the Behr intercooler is, it's not THAT good 
).
If you read a previous post, it states that the DJR team used the standard head bolts and 611 gasket....
.I'm sorry, but I don't believe that a 2.0 litre BTCC engine on a T4 running 6.7:1 to 7.2:1 compression can produce any number that starts with a 6 for anything more than a few seconds
. Especially using the components that they were lumbered with due to the homologation rules (as good as the Behr intercooler is, it's not THAT good ).If you read a previous post, it states that the DJR team used the standard head bolts and 611 gasket....
27-01-2012, 10:23 AM
#126
Sounds completely standard .
I'm sorry, but I don't believe that a 2.0 litre BTCC engine on a T4 running 6.7:1 to 7.2:1 compression can produce any number that starts with a 6 for anything more than a few seconds. Especially using the components that they were lumbered with due to the homologation rules (as good as the Behr intercooler is, it's not THAT good ).
.I'm sorry, but I don't believe that a 2.0 litre BTCC engine on a T4 running 6.7:1 to 7.2:1 compression can produce any number that starts with a 6 for anything more than a few seconds
. Especially using the components that they were lumbered with due to the homologation rules (as good as the Behr intercooler is, it's not THAT good ).Last edited by Chip; 27-01-2012 at 10:25 AM.
27-01-2012, 10:28 AM
#127
PassionFord Post Troll
the behr rs500 intercooler is fucking shite so i reckon 380....
so 611 and head bolts - 2 bar 115 ron fuel - loads of ignition.....who knows how long it would last LOL.....
so 611 and head bolts - 2 bar 115 ron fuel - loads of ignition.....who knows how long it would last LOL.....
27-01-2012, 12:56 PM
#137
now-a-days to what is actually required to achieve these figures and know what they should be capable of if they did actually have the figures being bandied about, where back then people didn't have a clue, so were much more receptive to the bullshit (what normal person could tell the difference between 500 and 600bhp - where now, LOADS of people can claim to having driven a 500bhp car) and then would repeat it ad infinitum without question, so that it became engraved in people's minds as perpetuated fact
27-01-2012, 01:42 PM
#140
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Also, far more people are edumacated now-a-days to what is actually required to achieve these figures and know what they should be capable of if they did actually have the figures being bandied about, where back then people didn't have a clue, so were much more receptive to the bullshit (what normal person could tell the difference between 500 and 600bhp - where now, LOADS of people can claim to having driven a 500bhp car) and then would repeat it ad infinitum without question, so that it became engraved in people's minds as perpetuated fact
now-a-days to what is actually required to achieve these figures and know what they should be capable of if they did actually have the figures being bandied about, where back then people didn't have a clue, so were much more receptive to the bullshit (what normal person could tell the difference between 500 and 600bhp - where now, LOADS of people can claim to having driven a 500bhp car) and then would repeat it ad infinitum without question, so that it became engraved in people's minds as perpetuated fact Mike, your old saff was supposedly 500bhp, more 440 to me, or was that cause it was a rebuilt worn out engine!
27-01-2012, 01:57 PM
#143
I'm surprised you don't fall asleep at the wheel . The 355 is supposed to be 375bhp? Out the back like a Mini .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5VV7...1&feature=plcp
. The 355 is supposed to be 375bhp? Out the back like a Mini .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5VV7...1&feature=plcp
27-01-2012, 02:34 PM
#145
limitations on parts of what you can use and how far you can push the boundaries of visual inspection by the scrutineers are night and day !Rouse has admited a few times that the T4's wernt exactly T4's and mike smith as said himself he wittnessed this ,Interpreting the rules takes a motor engineering solicitor to figure loop holes , some call this cheating but this is been going on since day 1 of motorsport its just harder these days to do it !
27-01-2012, 02:51 PM
#146
limitations on parts of what you can use and how far you can push the boundaries of visual inspection by the scrutineers are night and day !Rouse has admited a few times that the T4's wernt exactly T4's and mike smith as said himself he wittnessed this ,Interpreting the rules takes a motor engineering solicitor to figure loop holes , some call this cheating but this is been going on since day 1 of motorsport its just harder these days to do it !
27-01-2012, 03:15 PM
#147
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You gotta remember , these were the days when even future foca delegate bernie was master of this game when at brabham in the 80s, lead shot pumped into the tanks on final fuel stints / replacement lead ballasted rear wings fitted under scrutineers noses / even lap boards waved next to pit lane timing beacons during qualifying , etc etc - Even old employees freely admit and are probably quite smug of the exploits they once took place in ,
Hell they were all at it , and still are and always will be ,
Only the technology changes
Hell they were all at it , and still are and always will be ,
Only the technology changes
27-01-2012, 03:50 PM
#149
10K+ Poster!!
I'm surprised you don't fall asleep at the wheel . The 355 is supposed to be 375bhp? Out the back like a Mini .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5VV7...1&feature=plcp
. The 355 is supposed to be 375bhp? Out the back like a Mini .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5VV7...1&feature=plcp
Did I hear you refer to the new corner onto the pit straight as "her"
27-01-2012, 08:47 PM
#152
PassionFord Post Troll
28-01-2012, 05:20 PM
#153
As a typical example of this, Martin Schanche used to claim 700bhp out of his RS200 rally-cross cars and Harvey liaised closely with him to build up the RS200 Evo of Davy Jones to this spec, using the exact same cams and turbo etc as Schanche said would achieve 700bhp. When on the (TUV approved ) dyno, it was only mid 500s . When Harvey then quizzed him about it, he admitted that the figures bandied about was for the sake of the sponsors / artistic licence etc and the real power figure was what he was seeing on the dyno.
Harvey was really pissed off, as he had to start from scratch and totally redesign the cams / turbo / porting etc to eventually 700bhp. He was not a happy bunny .
A T4 compressor wheel only flows 48lb of air at 2.2 bar, it doesn't take anyone with half a brain to work out what the limit of this would be (even on race fuel on a 2.0 litre engine) - even with very high compression.....[/QUOTE]
Lol. You would have thought someone with harveys knowledge would have realized he was being sent down the wrong road. Cry.
) dyno, it was only mid 500s . When Harvey then quizzed him about it, he admitted that the figures bandied about was for the sake of the sponsors / artistic licence etc and the real power figure was what he was seeing on the dyno.Harvey was really pissed off, as he had to start from scratch and totally redesign the cams / turbo / porting etc to eventually 700bhp
. He was not a happy bunny .A T4 compressor wheel only flows 48lb of air at 2.2 bar, it doesn't take anyone with half a brain to work out what the limit of this would be (even on race fuel on a 2.0 litre engine) - even with very high compression.....[/QUOTE]
Lol. You would have thought someone with harveys knowledge would have realized he was being sent down the wrong road. Cry.
28-01-2012, 05:30 PM
#154
As a typical example of this, Martin Schanche used to claim 700bhp out of his RS200 rally-cross cars and Harvey liaised closely with him to build up the RS200 Evo of Davy Jones to this spec, using the exact same cams and turbo etc as Schanche said would achieve 700bhp. When on the (TUV approved ) dyno, it was only mid 500s . When Harvey then quizzed him about it, he admitted that the figures bandied about was for the sake of the sponsors / artistic licence etc and the real power figure was what he was seeing on the dyno.
Harvey was really pissed off, as he had to start from scratch and totally redesign the cams / turbo / porting etc to eventually 700bhp. He was not a happy bunny .
A T4 compressor wheel only flows 48lb of air at 2.2 bar, it doesn't take anyone with half a brain to work out what the limit of this would be (even on race fuel on a 2.0 litre engine) - even with very high compression.....
) dyno, it was only mid 500s . When Harvey then quizzed him about it, he admitted that the figures bandied about was for the sake of the sponsors / artistic licence etc and the real power figure was what he was seeing on the dyno.Harvey was really pissed off, as he had to start from scratch and totally redesign the cams / turbo / porting etc to eventually 700bhp
. He was not a happy bunny .A T4 compressor wheel only flows 48lb of air at 2.2 bar, it doesn't take anyone with half a brain to work out what the limit of this would be (even on race fuel on a 2.0 litre engine) - even with very high compression.....
I have meet schanche a few times he is in politics these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5GAFK5_eDU
He was for many years sponsord by sachs/ford with john cross and john welch ! anyway i bet the spec that harvey ended up with was the mountune one and not the later spec as both him and john cross came away from them and went to julian godfrey due to lack of power and 3 engines at weekend rally cross meet
29-01-2012, 06:56 AM
#159
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