timing belt failure after 8 days of use
#1
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timing belt failure after 8 days of use
Hi
Just had my timing/cam belt changed on my audi 03 1.9 tdi.
8 days later it failed
The job was done by a fella that works at an authorized audi dealer, but after open hours.
And the timing belt and tensioner was not bought from audi, but from the local parts dealer.
So now im in doubt on what to do, cause this is either the mecanics fault as he has done something wrong when he fitted it or the timing belt or tensioner was faulty from the start.
When i picked up the car everything was in perfect order, but when the belt broke i heard a typical belt rubbing against someting and imidiatly pressed down the clutch and slowed down.
I went around 2-300meters before the engine died, holding around 1500rpm's and imidiatly pressed the clutch when the engine cut.
Since it worked fine when i picked it up i believe that it could be because the tensioner may have come loose or the belt had a fault.
anyone have any suggestions on what to do or opinions on what could have happened?
Im thinking of taking the car to the parts dealer and show them what have happened, and agree with them on what to do, because if it turns out that the mecanic job was done properly then it must be a part failure that caused this which leaves them responsible for the cost in my opinion... doubt they agree but..
Just had my timing/cam belt changed on my audi 03 1.9 tdi.
8 days later it failed
The job was done by a fella that works at an authorized audi dealer, but after open hours.
And the timing belt and tensioner was not bought from audi, but from the local parts dealer.
So now im in doubt on what to do, cause this is either the mecanics fault as he has done something wrong when he fitted it or the timing belt or tensioner was faulty from the start.
When i picked up the car everything was in perfect order, but when the belt broke i heard a typical belt rubbing against someting and imidiatly pressed down the clutch and slowed down.
I went around 2-300meters before the engine died, holding around 1500rpm's and imidiatly pressed the clutch when the engine cut.
Since it worked fine when i picked it up i believe that it could be because the tensioner may have come loose or the belt had a fault.
anyone have any suggestions on what to do or opinions on what could have happened?
Im thinking of taking the car to the parts dealer and show them what have happened, and agree with them on what to do, because if it turns out that the mecanic job was done properly then it must be a part failure that caused this which leaves them responsible for the cost in my opinion... doubt they agree but..
#3
It Wasnt Me!
You can't really decide anything until you inspect it fully (maybe someone other than the mechanic who fitted it, as you want the real story) and come up with a conclusion i'd say
Last edited by vroooom ptssssh; 13-12-2011 at 08:36 PM.
#5
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Thread Starter
i spoke to the mecanic and he says everything was done after the book.
And if i send the car back to the mecanch he will probably say that everything looks fine, so i probably need to have an independent workshop to have a look at it..
But then there will be a bill that either the mecanic or parts dealer have to pay..
tricky case...
And if i send the car back to the mecanch he will probably say that everything looks fine, so i probably need to have an independent workshop to have a look at it..
But then there will be a bill that either the mecanic or parts dealer have to pay..
tricky case...
#6
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I have never seen a cambelt break after 8 days in normal conditions. I don't know how experienced is the mechanic, but could be an over tight belt as said by andy. But when you over tight it the belt is making a typical noise so usually after the first start you notice it. On those cars (I know coz I've worked on Audis during 4 years) if you have the proper tools, you cannot go wrong with belt tension.
#7
Get some more detailed pics up if you can mate you cant really get them wrong i suspect he got one of the belt covers on wrong as the belt looks like its sliced in half before it snapped.
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#8
did you supply the parts? if not then i would ask the mechanic to look at it. i would expect any good mechanic to look at it to protect his/her reputation.
if you supplied the parts then the situation becomes complicated. you will have to pay to have the parts removed and the retailer will return them to the manufacturer,who will inspect them and try everything they know to get out of paying for the repair.
this is the disadvantage of having work done on the cheap, if you had taken the car to the dealer and paid the full price then you would be able to return the car to them.
if you supplied the parts then the situation becomes complicated. you will have to pay to have the parts removed and the retailer will return them to the manufacturer,who will inspect them and try everything they know to get out of paying for the repair.
this is the disadvantage of having work done on the cheap, if you had taken the car to the dealer and paid the full price then you would be able to return the car to them.
#10
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Thread Starter
I have never seen a cambelt break after 8 days in normal conditions. I don't know how experienced is the mechanic, but could be an over tight belt as said by andy. But when you over tight it the belt is making a typical noise so usually after the first start you notice it. On those cars (I know coz I've worked on Audis during 4 years) if you have the proper tools, you cannot go wrong with belt tension.
since its my daily driver i always use mecanics on it so i really have no idea how the belt is fitted, and if there is many things that could be done wrong.
But i recon as an audi mecanic you get to do alot of work like this since its part of the service plan on these cars..
But if we rule out faulty parts, what can the mechanic have done wrong?
I mean it worked fine without any irregularities for 8 days, until the belt noise was heard and 10 seconds later the engine cut..
If you overtighten is it absolutly certain that you will hear a noise at once?
#12
I've done loads of caddy belts (looks similar) and they're pretty straight forward. Check the position of the tensioner, there's an indicator point that lines up when it's set right.
It does look like it's cut in half, obviously the covers are destroyed now but it could have been an incorrectly fitted cover although knowing what they fit like I'm struggling to think how it could touch middle of belt. There is a cover mid way which has a point that if you fit wrong will rub on the outside of the belt but you'd hear that straight away.
I'd be very surprised if it was a faulty belt, it's either tensioner failure or cut through from poor fitting. The belts on these are really tight even when the tensioner is loose so I'm sure you'd have got plenty of warning if the tensioner failed.
Last edited by jameswrx; 13-12-2011 at 08:56 PM.
#13
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Thread Starter
So this time i sorted it by calling this guy one day in advance and he replaced it in the evening.
But i totaly agree with you, cause with a receipt my insurance company would have gotten my car to the audi dealer and i would have a free rental car in the mean time hehe..
some more pics
#15
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No sound was head until 10seconds before it cut.
i probably drove around 400miles before it broke.
There was nothing that really gave any clues that something was wrong before the sound appeared
#16
Yeah he used all the special tools listed in the job description papers.
since its my daily driver i always use mecanics on it so i really have no idea how the belt is fitted, and if there is many things that could be done wrong.
But i recon as an audi mecanic you get to do alot of work like this since its part of the service plan on these cars..
But if we rule out faulty parts, what can the mechanic have done wrong?
I mean it worked fine without any irregularities for 8 days, until the belt noise was heard and 10 seconds later the engine cut..
If you overtighten is it absolutly certain that you will hear a noise at once?
since its my daily driver i always use mecanics on it so i really have no idea how the belt is fitted, and if there is many things that could be done wrong.
But i recon as an audi mecanic you get to do alot of work like this since its part of the service plan on these cars..
But if we rule out faulty parts, what can the mechanic have done wrong?
I mean it worked fine without any irregularities for 8 days, until the belt noise was heard and 10 seconds later the engine cut..
If you overtighten is it absolutly certain that you will hear a noise at once?
#18
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The face of that belt doesn't look very new to me, maybe its the flash on the camera, but it looks like an older belt as surface looks like its been scuffed up with something, possibly whats caused it to fail? something lieing loose in the cambelt casing?
#20
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also the old tensioner and waterpump was on his shelf aswell so it has for shure been changed
#24
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The mechanic has said he will fix it, but he suspects that the parts were faulty.
But id imagine if i bring the car back to him and after he has picked it appart it turns out that everything is ok then the parts dealer will just say that whatever has been fitted wrong was fitted correctly when the mechanic picked it appart that second time..
#25
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checked the casings to see if theres any evidence of scuffing on them?
1800 zetecs do this in between the 2 cams, when belt/tensioner gets tired you can hear it hitting the cover
1800 zetecs do this in between the 2 cams, when belt/tensioner gets tired you can hear it hitting the cover
#27
Your talkin sh** now
I'v done alot of these timing belts and the tensioner is spring loaded and you tension it to the mark so over tension should be out of the question. But I done a belt on a hiace van and a small bolt fell inside the timing belt cover and shredded it
#29
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If you suspect it to be faulty parts do not strip anymore off car I had a brand new tensioner die in a rover and take belt out and I called up the manafacture which was gates and they sent a engineer round to assess it but told me to leave the car as it was and they confirmed it was faulty part and covered cost off full repair!
So deffo worth a call as I would imagine if the guy who did it works for Audi he would know what he doing!
So deffo worth a call as I would imagine if the guy who did it works for Audi he would know what he doing!
#30
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If you suspect it to be faulty parts do not strip anymore off car I had a brand new tensioner die in a rover and take belt out and I called up the manafacture which was gates and they sent a engineer round to assess it but told me to leave the car as it was and they confirmed it was faulty part and covered cost off full repair!
So deffo worth a call as I would imagine if the guy who did it works for Audi he would know what he doing!
So deffo worth a call as I would imagine if the guy who did it works for Audi he would know what he doing!
#32
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Look to see if the tensioner is seated against the engine right. theres like a little locating tab that fits into a slot on the engine. Another thing to think about is the new water pump. Check the pulley on it to make sure theres no sharp edges
#35
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Looks like FOD to be honest. Awkward one really if he did it in his spare time. I assume he'd have no reputation to "ruin" so just depends how he is.
Something else to think about, I can only imagine you got the job done at a massively discounted rate. My mate works at a dealer and he did something similar, (not a timing belt) but it broke. He'd done the work about 3 times cheaper than the dealer. When something went wrong (wasn't his fault) he basically said if you pay again i'll fix it and it'll still be cheaper than the dealership price you didn't want to pay to have this kind of "warranty". He did it cheaper because it was easier the second time around.
I'd speak to him, and the people you got the parts from and go from there. Pictures aren't good enough quality to judge.
Something else to think about, I can only imagine you got the job done at a massively discounted rate. My mate works at a dealer and he did something similar, (not a timing belt) but it broke. He'd done the work about 3 times cheaper than the dealer. When something went wrong (wasn't his fault) he basically said if you pay again i'll fix it and it'll still be cheaper than the dealership price you didn't want to pay to have this kind of "warranty". He did it cheaper because it was easier the second time around.
I'd speak to him, and the people you got the parts from and go from there. Pictures aren't good enough quality to judge.
#38
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#40
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austin101 could you edit the post with the picture so people dont mix up the two failures?
Im hoping to get the car to the workshop tomorrrow, and then we will have some answers hopefully.
Im assuming some valves are bent, but hopefully not.
its a dayco belt kit that was used
Im hoping to get the car to the workshop tomorrrow, and then we will have some answers hopefully.
Im assuming some valves are bent, but hopefully not.
its a dayco belt kit that was used