Mark_1

Hi
Just had my timing/cam belt changed on my audi 03 1.9 tdi.
8 days later it failed


The job was done by a fella that works at an authorized audi dealer, but after open hours.
And the timing belt and tensioner was not bought from audi, but from the local parts dealer.

So now im in doubt on what to do, cause this is either the mecanics fault as he has done something wrong when he fitted it or the timing belt or tensioner was faulty from the start.

When i picked up the car everything was in perfect order, but when the belt broke i heard a typical belt rubbing against someting and imidiatly pressed down the clutch and slowed down.
I went around 2-300meters before the engine died, holding around 1500rpm's and imidiatly pressed the clutch when the engine cut.

Since it worked fine when i picked it up i believe that it could be because the tensioner may have come loose or the belt had a fault.

anyone have any suggestions on what to do or opinions on what could have happened?

Im thinking of taking the car to the parts dealer and show them what have happened, and agree with them on what to do, because if it turns out that the mecanic job was done properly then it must be a part failure that caused this which leaves them responsible for the cost in my opinion... doubt they agree but..

studabear

speak to the mechanic first

vroooom ptssssh

You can't really decide anything until you inspect it fully (maybe someone other than the mechanic who fitted it, as you want the real story) and come up with a conclusion i'd say

andy130

iTrader: (2)

over tight i think, had that same thing happen to me

Mark_1

i spoke to the mecanic and he says everything was done after the book.
And if i send the car back to the mecanch he will probably say that everything looks fine, so i probably need to have an independent workshop to have a look at it..
But then there will be a bill that either the mecanic or parts dealer have to pay..
tricky case...

Mad Matt

iTrader: (2)

I have never seen a cambelt break after 8 days in normal conditions. I don't know how experienced is the mechanic, but could be an over tight belt as said by andy. But when you over tight it the belt is making a typical noise so usually after the first start you notice it. On those cars (I know coz I've worked on Audis during 4 years) if you have the proper tools, you cannot go wrong with belt tension.

baggy1979

Get some more detailed pics up if you can mate you cant really get them wrong i suspect he got one of the belt covers on wrong as the belt looks like its sliced in half before it snapped.

YOREVOL

did you supply the parts? if not then i would ask the mechanic to look at it. i would expect any good mechanic to look at it to protect his/her reputation.
if you supplied the parts then the situation becomes complicated. you will have to pay to have the parts removed and the retailer will return them to the manufacturer,who will inspect them and try everything they know to get out of paying for the repair.
this is the disadvantage of having work done on the cheap, if you had taken the car to the dealer and paid the full price then you would be able to return the car to them.

Mad Matt

iTrader: (2)

Yea but baggy what you can put wrong is a maybe one of those black clips but honestly I don't think it can slice a kevlar belt ! TDI ones are very strong.

Mark_1

Yeah he used all the special tools listed in the job description papers.
since its my daily driver i always use mecanics on it so i really have no idea how the belt is fitted, and if there is many things that could be done wrong.
But i recon as an audi mecanic you get to do alot of work like this since its part of the service plan on these cars..

But if we rule out faulty parts, what can the mechanic have done wrong?
I mean it worked fine without any irregularities for 8 days, until the belt noise was heard and 10 seconds later the engine cut..
If you overtighten is it absolutly certain that you will hear a noise at once?

mk2cossy

iTrader: (1)

Looks like its been over tensioned! Did it sound winey when you picked it up? Or something has seized up like the water pump?

jameswrx

As above.

I've done loads of caddy belts (looks similar) and they're pretty straight forward. Check the position of the tensioner, there's an indicator point that lines up when it's set right.

It does look like it's cut in half, obviously the covers are destroyed now but it could have been an incorrectly fitted cover although knowing what they fit like I'm struggling to think how it could touch middle of belt. There is a cover mid way which has a point that if you fit wrong will rub on the outside of the belt but you'd hear that straight away.

I'd be very surprised if it was a faulty belt, it's either tensioner failure or cut through from poor fitting. The belts on these are really tight even when the tensioner is loose so I'm sure you'd have got plenty of warning if the tensioner failed.

Mark_1

Yes im totaly avare of this, but my work really makes it a problem to schedule a repair at a workshop booked two weeks in advance, because by that time i have been sent to another side of the country.
So this time i sorted it by calling this guy one day in advance and he replaced it in the evening.
But i totaly agree with you, cause with a receipt my insurance company would have gotten my car to the audi dealer and i would have a free rental car in the mean time hehe..

some more pics

jameswrx

Actually, just looking at the state of it (dirt) did it actually have belt covers on?

Mark_1

New waterpump was fitted at the same time, with the new tensioner and belt.

No sound was head until 10seconds before it cut.
i probably drove around 400miles before it broke.
There was nothing that really gave any clues that something was wrong before the sound appeared

baggy1979

If it was too tight you would hear it at once.There is limited room when doing these belts (even more so if its a 150bhp model) things you could get wrong there are three covers for the belt one plastic (top) and two metal (lower) these can be fitted wrong and touch the belt very slightly (just rubbing) which could wear the belt away after only a short time.Getting the counter hold for the tensioner in the cylinder head out of line causing the belt to come loose.Or simply catching it while fitting it and putting the other parts on ie covers engine mount ect.

Mark_1

The dirt is "hair" from the belt.

weegaz22

The face of that belt doesn't look very new to me, maybe its the flash on the camera, but it looks like an older belt as surface looks like its been scuffed up with something, possibly whats caused it to fail? something lieing loose in the cambelt casing?

ASHCOSSIE

u sure he actually changed the belt, might have just looked at it and thougt that looks ok and charged u ?

Mark_1

yeah cause i was way over the servicelimit so i checked the old one just to see if it was close to breakage.
also the old tensioner and waterpump was on his shelf aswell so it has for shure been changed

ASHCOSSIE

only asked cause these belts so wide and the material they made out of makes them age very well

St3V3_C

I would start getting used to the idea that you are going to have to foot the bill to repair this yourself mate

ASHCOSSIE

he must have left a bolt out of a cover in there for it to do that

Mark_1

Thanks im open to any input in this matter.
The mechanic has said he will fix it, but he suspects that the parts were faulty.
But id imagine if i bring the car back to him and after he has picked it appart it turns out that everything is ok then the parts dealer will just say that whatever has been fitted wrong was fitted correctly when the mechanic picked it appart that second time..

weegaz22

checked the casings to see if theres any evidence of scuffing on them?

1800 zetecs do this in between the 2 cams, when belt/tensioner gets tired you can hear it hitting the cover

big hyndy

iTrader: (1)

What manufacture was the belt kit out of interest?

Austin101

I'v done alot of these timing belts and the tensioner is spring loaded and you tension it to the mark so over tension should be out of the question. But I done a belt on a hiace van and a small bolt fell inside the timing belt cover and shredded it

Austin101

saph4be

If you suspect it to be faulty parts do not strip anymore off car I had a brand new tensioner die in a rover and take belt out and I called up the manafacture which was gates and they sent a engineer round to assess it but told me to leave the car as it was and they confirmed it was faulty part and covered cost off full repair!

So deffo worth a call as I would imagine if the guy who did it works for Audi he would know what he doing!

big hyndy

iTrader: (1)

Gates kits that we have had issues with as well thats why I asked previous what belt kit it was?

MikeR

My feeling is like Steve you will end up footing the bill n this one, l sympathize greatly,

Mike

krypton

Look to see if the tensioner is seated against the engine right. theres like a little locating tab that fits into a slot on the engine. Another thing to think about is the new water pump. Check the pulley on it to make sure theres no sharp edges

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

Bloody helk what a mess.I hope he hasnt crimped the belt or used a screwdriver on it when he fitted the belt.

SteveB

iTrader: (3)

Just to add to the Gates kit debate....


I am a parts manager and sell Gates kits each day and every day.... If that was a Gates kit that failed call the factor it came from they will contact Gates and they WILL send out an engineer to inspect the car.


Steve

RickyLee53

Looks like FOD to be honest. Awkward one really if he did it in his spare time. I assume he'd have no reputation to "ruin" so just depends how he is.
Something else to think about, I can only imagine you got the job done at a massively discounted rate. My mate works at a dealer and he did something similar, (not a timing belt) but it broke. He'd done the work about 3 times cheaper than the dealer. When something went wrong (wasn't his fault) he basically said if you pay again i'll fix it and it'll still be cheaper than the dealership price you didn't want to pay to have this kind of "warranty". He did it cheaper because it was easier the second time around.

I'd speak to him, and the people you got the parts from and go from there. Pictures aren't good enough quality to judge.

LHD220Turbo

iTrader: (4)

as said, we had a skoda octavia tensioner fail, left all in place, called the manufacturer and they footed the bill for a brand new head

Austin101

I could be wrong here but should that tensioner not be tensioned anti-clockwise.It look like its done up clockwise

B19 JUB

yeah i reckon so too.mayb sitting at the bottom of the block and slowly cutting through the belt

dojj

iTrader: (3)

has it trashed the engine or is it just the belt that's nearly knackered?

Mark_1

austin101 could you edit the post with the picture so people dont mix up the two failures?

Im hoping to get the car to the workshop tomorrrow, and then we will have some answers hopefully.

Im assuming some valves are bent, but hopefully not.

its a dayco belt kit that was used