Toyota Celica GT-Four st205... What are they like?
10-12-2011, 12:25 PM
#41
I've had a couple of them, one of which (the white fully forged 400bhp one) I liked so much that I owned it twice... they've got a couple of expensive things to make sure have been addressed, but they are desperately over engineered as standard IMO.
Transmission is good for mega BHP applications, IIRC Fensport were using a standard ST185 CS gearbox (only standard gearset with 200mph capability) in their old Corolla and didn't have many problems at all.. the odd rear differential gave up the ghost, but that's not bad when running 600bhp+ and getting a fairly tough time of it.
WRC Anti-Lag would lunch the turbo within a couple of miles, the Water Spray if re-activated is like a little drip and all the other mechanicals are identical.. there's a small bonnet spoiler and the spoiler raiser blocks on the exterior, that's it. So it's definitely not worth paying more for a WRC over a standard model.
Might as well whore some pictures of my old ones:
My '94 WRC:
My '97 JDM in Storm Grey:
Agreed, the standard ST185/Rev 1 & 2 MR2 Turbo engines would do a headgasket pretty swiftly once the boost was turned up over 1 bar.
Unfortunately both the UK and JDM models have got the complicated front suspension set up... which is a PITA and expensive to replace.
Basically isn't the same. 
...with a few upgrades, I/C and H/G to start with, an ST185 engine will make reasonable numbers.
Incorrect, the Chargecooler set up is the same regardless of WRC/Non-WRC spec cars.
To make 280bhp on an ST205, you will need a panel filter, full service and a boost controller to run 1.1bar... add a full exhaust, a de-cat and you'll be around 300bhp. Get a standalone aftermarket ECU fitted and mapped and you'll be running c320bhp... you can't reflash the standard ECU, so it does need to be replaced if you want it mapped.
Not so, the later thick walled blocks are quite reliable to big horsepower given they're treated to forged internals obviously.. but the earlier blocks have been known to give issues, IIRC it's usually once it sees north of 1.6/1.7bar through it.
Me neither, if someone was hell bent on a 185 then I'd try and push them into an ST185 CS (Carlos Sainz) model which came with the uprated head gasket as standard.. nicer bonnet and bumpers as well as being a limited run so a little more special.
Cheers,
Grant
Transmission is good for mega BHP applications, IIRC Fensport were using a standard ST185 CS gearbox (only standard gearset with 200mph capability) in their old Corolla and didn't have many problems at all.. the odd rear differential gave up the ghost, but that's not bad when running 600bhp+ and getting a fairly tough time of it.
WRC Anti-Lag would lunch the turbo within a couple of miles, the Water Spray if re-activated is like a little drip and all the other mechanicals are identical.. there's a small bonnet spoiler and the spoiler raiser blocks on the exterior, that's it. So it's definitely not worth paying more for a WRC over a standard model.
Might as well whore some pictures of my old ones:
My '94 WRC:
My '97 JDM in Storm Grey:
...with a few upgrades, I/C and H/G to start with, an ST185 engine will make reasonable numbers.To make 280bhp on an ST205, you will need a panel filter, full service and a boost controller to run 1.1bar... add a full exhaust, a de-cat and you'll be around 300bhp. Get a standalone aftermarket ECU fitted and mapped and you'll be running c320bhp... you can't reflash the standard ECU, so it does need to be replaced if you want it mapped.
i did quite a bit of research on these a few years back when i had a lexus /altezza , the 3s GTE turbo engines are quite weak for anything above above 300 ish bhp unless you start with the Caldina or Camry 2.2 block ,that wouldve been my starting point but the car sold in the meantime .In fact i still have an Xtrac Gearbox & Diff to suit an is200/Altezza on the shelf ,lol
Me neither, if someone was hell bent on a 185 then I'd try and push them into an ST185 CS (Carlos Sainz) model which came with the uprated head gasket as standard.. nicer bonnet and bumpers as well as being a limited run so a little more special.
Cheers,
Grant
10-12-2011, 05:10 PM
#43
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Incorrect, the Chargecooler set up is the same regardless of WRC/Non-WRC spec cars.
To make 280bhp on an ST205, you will need a panel filter, full service and a boost controller to run 1.1bar... add a full exhaust, a de-cat and you'll be around 300bhp. Get a standalone aftermarket ECU fitted and mapped and you'll be running c320bhp... you can't reflash the standard ECU, so it does need to be replaced if you want it mapped.
To make 280bhp on an ST205, you will need a panel filter, full service and a boost controller to run 1.1bar... add a full exhaust, a de-cat and you'll be around 300bhp. Get a standalone aftermarket ECU fitted and mapped and you'll be running c320bhp... you can't reflash the standard ECU, so it does need to be replaced if you want it mapped.
or is it the st185 chargecoolers i'm getting confused with? normal vs carlos sainz version?
10-12-2011, 05:46 PM
#45
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i LOVE 205`s and have looked after one for 3 yrs, front suspension is a cunt to work on but there faily bullet proof in STD or mild tuned guise, dunno if bits have come down in price but due to these being the rarest import (from my experience and tuning wise, sont shoot me lol)
i knew a lad with a silly horsepower fensport built car 500ish bhp and at york dragway it would be very very lucky to crack high 13`s if he propperly launched it so this always put me off owning one.
ive extracted high 400`s for some of my Mr2 for customers vehicles and thy`ve been strong engine wise with rods and pistons, even seen 580bhp on a daily used rev.1!!!
id love a castrol clad one but, i dunno, inside there just taty IMO, but jap at its best if im honest!
i WILL own one one day though, mark my words
Hugs, Sean.
i knew a lad with a silly horsepower fensport built car 500ish bhp and at york dragway it would be very very lucky to crack high 13`s if he propperly launched it so this always put me off owning one.
ive extracted high 400`s for some of my Mr2 for customers vehicles and thy`ve been strong engine wise with rods and pistons, even seen 580bhp on a daily used rev.1!!!
id love a castrol clad one but, i dunno, inside there just taty IMO, but jap at its best if im honest!
i WILL own one one day though, mark my words
Hugs, Sean.
10-12-2011, 06:42 PM
#46
Ive owned one, sold it about 6 months ago. Really nice cars, very comfortable I thought. If your over 6'2" then its not the car for you, I had to have the drivers seat as far back as possible.
Fuel wise, I once filled it up with V-Power when I first got it, cost £80 to fill and I got around 280miles out of a tank.
Look at all the geometry not just the figure 8's. Figure 8's are one of the least expensive parts, you wont be happy when you forking out circa £300 for lower arms from Camskill.
Make sure the fuel tank isnt leaking, its right at the back behind the bumper and the rear wheels trap water between the chassis and the tank. It rots away the fuel pump cradle. Cost me around £200 in parts alone from Toyota.
Thats another thing, Toyota, they can be pricey on parts.
The 3S-GTE is a weapon of an engine. You can thrash it all day long and it never gets tired. Mine had around 100k on the clocks when I sold it.
Alot of fun, and in my opinion, alot more refined then say an Impreza of the same age. People used to always comment on it in carparks saying how it reminded them of the rally car from the Escos era.
My one was white, so if you get one, but please do not get all the Castrol vinyl!
And you right, the WRC models do have anti-lag and water injection not connected. I asked the same question when i got mine, and the feedback is that its not the greatest system. WRC models generally go for abit more money.
Fuel wise, I once filled it up with V-Power when I first got it, cost £80 to fill and I got around 280miles out of a tank.
Look at all the geometry not just the figure 8's. Figure 8's are one of the least expensive parts, you wont be happy when you forking out circa £300 for lower arms from Camskill.
Make sure the fuel tank isnt leaking, its right at the back behind the bumper and the rear wheels trap water between the chassis and the tank. It rots away the fuel pump cradle. Cost me around £200 in parts alone from Toyota.
Thats another thing, Toyota, they can be pricey on parts.
The 3S-GTE is a weapon of an engine. You can thrash it all day long and it never gets tired. Mine had around 100k on the clocks when I sold it.
Alot of fun, and in my opinion, alot more refined then say an Impreza of the same age. People used to always comment on it in carparks saying how it reminded them of the rally car from the Escos era.
My one was white, so if you get one, but please do not get all the Castrol vinyl!
And you right, the WRC models do have anti-lag and water injection not connected. I asked the same question when i got mine, and the feedback is that its not the greatest system. WRC models generally go for abit more money.
also its got a non standard rear spoiler, as the others are a 3 peice one, the sloiler in on raiser blocks, that one is 1 peice. looks good tho!!
as for the ALS not being the best system, that wont bother me on my 10 mile drive to work lol
11-12-2011, 01:42 AM
#49
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So it is! That is my old one.
Advert is mine too, so are the pictures! Thats abit lazy.
Selling up so soon, I think he wanted it as a daily driver.
Shame, did love that car, but he will never get £3200 for it. You can pick-up much higher spec'd models for less than that.
I sold it to him for £2300, and it was me that fitted the following:
F1 6 Paddle Clutch
Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel
Toyo Proxies T1-R's
Blitz Nur Spec Exhaust (with muffler tip)
By the looks of it, he hasnt spent a penny.
Advert is mine too, so are the pictures! Thats abit lazy.
Selling up so soon, I think he wanted it as a daily driver.
Shame, did love that car, but he will never get £3200 for it. You can pick-up much higher spec'd models for less than that.
I sold it to him for £2300, and it was me that fitted the following:
F1 6 Paddle Clutch
Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel
Toyo Proxies T1-R's
Blitz Nur Spec Exhaust (with muffler tip)
By the looks of it, he hasnt spent a penny.
11-12-2011, 08:12 AM
#52
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I didnt see any problem with using it as a daily? Obviously they will be a tad thirsty, but then most 2.0 Turbo 4WD's are! Mine never let me down, even when the clutch started slipping it never missed a beat.
Suppose it depends on what your circumstances are, i.e. cash flow.
Are you looking at my old one, or is that just an example?
Suppose it depends on what your circumstances are, i.e. cash flow.
Are you looking at my old one, or is that just an example?
11-12-2011, 10:50 AM
#55
In all fairness your probably right grant, quite a few people on mr2oc said there was a difference in the cores, but most of em wouldn't know one end of a spanner from the next, mine came with a wrc cooler on it so didnt have any reason to look into an upgrade
or is it the st185 chargecoolers i'm getting confused with? normal vs carlos sainz version?
or is it the st185 chargecoolers i'm getting confused with? normal vs carlos sainz version?
Yeah I really rate these cars to be honest, they're a little lardy compared to an equivalent Impreza/Evo and the 0-60 statistics look a bit bollox on paper since they've got a boost limiter as standard... but once you fit a boost controller, manual or electronic, that is removed and you get the full 1.1bar (factory fuel cut is at 1.2bar) through 1st-5th it changes things.
I'd recommend one of these cars over a similar priced (~2500) Impreza or Evo every single time providing you've given it a proper look over and checked it all out... way less likely to have to shell out for big repairs IMO.
I loved the way the Grey one looked, bought it standard and added the wheels, suspension, performance stuff... part of me still regrets selling it actually. Took it round Knockhill as part of an SIDC day and it held it's own pretty well even though it was pretty much standard at the time.
In fact, when my best mate had the white one (standard bar the EBC and panel filter at the time) he raced at York as part of the GT4OC Challenge Weekend and ran a high 13-second pass consistently:
Cheers,
Grant
Last edited by RS Grant; 11-12-2011 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Fancied whoring more pictures, haha.
11-12-2011, 10:57 AM
#56
Bloody right, I hate seeing rally-bred cars being constantly cosseted and not used properly. They're built for driving, so get 'em dirty and enjoy them I saw.
If I owned an Escort Cossie, I'm sure I'd upset plenty of the bufty types out there. I think I'd only want to use it in winter when the weather is bad
If I owned an Escort Cossie, I'm sure I'd upset plenty of the bufty types out there. I think I'd only want to use it in winter when the weather is bad
11-12-2011, 11:01 AM
#57
Bloody right, I hate seeing rally-bred cars being constantly cosseted and not used properly. They're built for driving, so get 'em dirty and enjoy them I saw.
If I owned an Escort Cossie, I'm sure I'd upset plenty of the bufty types out there. I think I'd only want to use it in winter when the weather is bad
If I owned an Escort Cossie, I'm sure I'd upset plenty of the bufty types out there. I think I'd only want to use it in winter when the weather is bad
Cheers,
Grant
11-12-2011, 06:07 PM
#58
I didnt see any problem with using it as a daily? Obviously they will be a tad thirsty, but then most 2.0 Turbo 4WD's are! Mine never let me down, even when the clutch started slipping it never missed a beat.
Suppose it depends on what your circumstances are, i.e. cash flow.
Are you looking at my old one, or is that just an example?
Suppose it depends on what your circumstances are, i.e. cash flow.
Are you looking at my old one, or is that just an example?
12-12-2011, 10:31 AM
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12-12-2011, 12:38 PM
#61
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My missus had one for 6 months. lovely drive, quick enough to keep us interested. suspension are are silly money for what they are, but its part of owning one. not that great on fuel, either. ace fun in the snow, though. best thing about ours was it was only £600, cause the clutch was knacked when i bought it
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